G34 or CZ Shadow for Production?

[blsexton]

Moving to production division from L10 with a 1911. This will become my 'full time' shooter so I'm not worried about adjusting platforms. Here's my pro/con sheet, anything I missed please chime in. Using 147gr loaded down PF ammo.

G34

1. Would install Vanek/Fiber Optics and shoot it!

2. Very reliable +

3. Parts availabilty +

4. Cheap/easy to get magazines +

5. very low bore/hand axis +

6. Can take out Vanek trigger if need +

7. Not as accurate w. stock barrel as a Shadow -

8. 1 week wait for Vanek drop in kits neutral

Shadow

1. Heavy, low recoiling +

2. Fibers/trigger work already done. Nothing else needed, read to go custom from the box +

3. High(er) cost of mags/parts than a G34 -

4. DA first pull (but I hear it is SWEEET) neutral

5. Accuracy +

6. 2 week wait from Angus neautral

7. Cool factor +

[eerw]

tough choice...

I shot a G34 with Dawson sights, Vanek trigger,etc for a year...and did pretty well but not great..

switched to a tricked out SP01 and find I shoot it better.

the trigger is sweet and easy to shoot. spare parts are plentiful and not expensive. if you use the CZ 16rnd mags they are available and a lot cheaper than the 19 rnd mags.

if you can shoot both..that would be the best..they point different, track different, move different. they you can choose what's best for you.

[Flexmoney]

The Glock is going to be light and low recoil with those minor loads.

My Glocks have always proved to be quite accurate. I don't think there is anything I can't hit with them.

Just my opinion on some of the pros/cons.

[Gunslinger]

I like the CZ well enough, but I like a good G34 a LOT better! I've been using my 34 (stock except for a set of Dawson sights and some grip tape, plus a trigger job that I did myself[2.25Lb w/ no overtravel and VERY crisp letoff)(Total cost of gun is under $750). I guess you should try to shoot both side-by-side if possible because what works for one guy may not work for another.

I have to ask about the "Not as accurate w. stock barrel as a Shadow " comment though. What makes you think this??? My G34 is for all practical purposes as accurate as my $3,000 limited gun (Schuemann BBL, etc) and will run rings around ANY other stock-barreled semi-auto pistol I have encountered yet. I use Atlanta Arms and Ammo's 147gr JHP minor load (Loaded to Dave Sevigny/Team Glock's specs) and it will shoot much more accurately than a human can hold it. I had the chance to play with it in a Ransom rest one time and it will produce 1 nice ragged hole/cloverleaf at 20 yards from a Ransom rest. Maybe I just got a good barrel, but if that's the case so did my 2 shootin' buddies who shoot guns & ammo identical to mine with the same results.

But, like I said, try both and see what fits YOU best and go with that. Just realize that the CZ will be more expensive and there aren't a whole lot of accessories out there for them (yet).

Edited June 23, 2007 by Gunslinger

[EricBudd]

Moving to production division from L10 with a 1911. This will become my 'full time' shooter so I'm not worried about adjusting platforms. Here's my pro/con sheet, anything I missed please chime in. Using 147gr loaded down PF ammo.

G34

1. Would install Vanek/Fiber Optics and shoot it!

2. Very reliable +

3. Parts availabilty +

4. Cheap/easy to get magazines +

5. very low bore/hand axis +

6. Can take out Vanek trigger if need +

7. Not as accurate w. stock barrel as a Shadow -

8. 1 week wait for Vanek drop in kits neutral

Shadow

1. Heavy, low recoiling +

2. Fibers/trigger work already done. Nothing else needed, read to go custom from the box +

3. High(er) cost of mags/parts than a G34 -

4. DA first pull (but I hear it is SWEEET) neutral

5. Accuracy +

6. 2 week wait from Angus neautral

7. Cool factor +

With the SP01 you can use the 16 round MecGar magazines. They sell for about $20 and run great.

The other thing is to wait till the 2008 rules are published - If there is a mininum trigger pull wait you might want a heavy 1st pull and a light SA pull after that. The nice thing about getting a worked over gun directly from Angus is that the gun is ready to roll out of the box.

I'm not going to comment on the Glock since I don't shoot one.

[chrisjohn]

I shoot a modified SP01. In a 9mm production platform, don’t think it can be beat.

Looked at the Glock closely and still wouldn’t mind owning one, but two issues really pushed me towards the CZ. First is that I reload and thus wouldn’t want to put reloaded rounds down an OEM Glock barrel. I only shoot jacketed bullets but sill would want the extra safety provided by a fully supported chamber. I’ve seen too many .40 Glocks blow out the back of reloaded .40 brass during our local matches. So add a KKM barrel on top of the price and you’re smack at the same cost the Shadow, roughly. Secondly, I’ve never felt a Glock trigger that I really liked. Yes, the Vanek triggers are much better over stock, but I’ve got a 5 lbs DA and a 2 lbs SA trigger pull on my SP01, Matt Mink tuned.

If you’re really planning on shooting only production, the SP01 would be the way to go, but if you’re wanted to shoot some limited, than the .40 makes sense. In that case, go ahead and get a CZ Tactical Sport, comes ready to run with 4 mags, no trigger work needed. I sincerely wish I would have bough one first thing.

[GeneralChang]

I've owned both and prefer the Glock because there is so much aftermarket support, easier to work on yourself, cheap magazines, longer sight radius, can be used at GSSF matches to win more Glocks. If only the Glock had the M&P grip angle and then it would truly be perfect, for me that is...

[GeneralChang]

The easiest way to decide is buy them all. That solves everything.

[mtgale]

The biggest + for using a Glock...

A little bag of spare parts will fit in your range bag and any repair short of a catastrophic failure or tuning can be done at the range.

The accuracy issue is such a subjective issue its not even worth addressing as it has been talked to death on every forum in existence.

As for the remark "chrisjohn" made about Glock barrels being the reason shooters are blowing out 40SW brass, I call BS. Cheap minded shooters 1) reloading brass 20 times, 2) using purportedly once fired brass from a friend of a friend and 3) loading too hot are the only reasons blowouts occur.

I have shot 1000's of rounds of reloaded 40SW through a couple of different Glocks and never suffered a case failure from my Glocks less than fully supported barrel.

and I swore I would never jpin anothe forum....

[sfinney]

The easiest way to decide is buy them all. That solves everything.

I thought you bought two of everything, to be twice as sure.

[sfinney]

I've had both, and it comes down to "feel" and preference. I'm not much of a Production shooter, but.......

If you like heavy steel guns and 1911 like triggers, the SP01 type gun is great..... if you can get past the DA first shot. But its a very stable gun, and with a good trigger job, easy to shoot fast.

The G34 is a good handling gun, and with replacement sights and a good trigger job they do their part. But personally I could never get used to the Glock grip angle, its lightness, and, a bigee for me - I could never reload a Glock mag smooth/fast enough ( I have a heavy 1911 background, angles are different).

I prefer the SP01 because I can get the mag in the dang gun, which is pretty important especially in Production with lots of mag changes. Could I retrain myself to shoot a Glock? Sure, but I decided not to. (The SP01, XD, and M&P all are about the same as to the angle of the magwell, and gave me no problems...... but the Glocks eat my lunch.)

If I was going to shoot Production, and get serious about it, I'd shoot a CZ SP01 or Witness Stock and never look back, especially if the 3 pound min trigger pull thing goes through.

Edited June 23, 2007 by sfinney

[SA Friday]

I shoot a modified SP01. In a 9mm production platform, don’t think it can be beat.

Looked at the Glock closely and still wouldn’t mind owning one, but two issues really pushed me towards the CZ. First is that I reload and thus wouldn’t want to put reloaded rounds down an OEM Glock barrel. I only shoot jacketed bullets but sill would want the extra safety provided by a fully supported chamber. I’ve seen too many .40 Glocks blow out the back of reloaded .40 brass during our local matches. So add a KKM barrel on top of the price and you’re smack at the same cost the Shadow, roughly. Secondly, I’ve never felt a Glock trigger that I really liked. Yes, the Vanek triggers are much better over stock, but I’ve got a 5 lbs DA and a 2 lbs SA trigger pull on my SP01, Matt Mink tuned.

If you’re really planning on shooting only production, the SP01 would be the way to go, but if you’re wanted to shoot some limited, than the .40 makes sense. In that case, go ahead and get a CZ Tactical Sport, comes ready to run with 4 mags, no trigger work needed. I sincerely wish I would have bough one first thing.

yes, 40 cal Glocks have had issues with the support in the chambers, but it really comes down to the reloader. The 9mm Glocks do not have these issues at all. For production, there is little to no reason to shoot a 40 (unless you're Flex).

The one great advantage of the Glock over the CZ is the ease of repair. It is such a simple gun, and parts are easy and cheap to get. As for having to do repairs, it's very rare one has to fix something at a match, and if they do, it's probably a simple spring replacement. CZ's are very solid too, but I've seen issues with light strikes and mags not dropping out on a couple of them. In fairness, I've seen this with glocks too, but a lot less.

Ultimately, it really comes down to which one feels right for you. I like the feel of both, but the Glock just points right for me. Many have issues with the grip angle on the Glock; its a love-it-or-hate-it deal. Best thing is to shoot both and then decide. How they both work for you is much more important than the rest. They are essentially a wash for advantage/disadvantage.

BTW, Glocks pretty much own the roost for USPSA production titles since the division was started.

[GeneralChang]

The easiest way to decide is buy them all. That solves everything.

I thought you bought two of everything, to be twice as sure.

you're right, I did buy two of everything

[Carlos]

I own and shoot an SP 01 as well as having used, in the past, a Glock 17 in USPSA and GSSF. For Production, BOTH the CZ & Glock are very very capable and your choice won't let you down for as far as you wish to go in this sport.

Being the CZ fan that I am, I will only comment on a single weakness I can think of with my CZs: their magazines are more sensitive to fine dirt & sand than Glock magazines. The CZ mag is not as bad as a STI/SV, but I still break down my CZ mags and clean them every time they hit the dirt (grass & hard surfaces excepted).

[Gary1911A1]

I have a Glock 34 and other CZs' and CZ type pistols. I only use the Glock 34 for GSSF Mtaches. I would say if you have been shooting L 10 with a 1911 you'll find the CZ works better for you.

[eric nielsen]

I shot a G34 and a SP01 over my chrono, both had 147s going exactly 920 fps. The CZ lifted half as much, if that much. Also easier to hold in alignment while working the trigger. Personally I do better in matches with a heavier gun, the same mistake makes a smaller problem on the target.

I think I shot the Mink gun and just dry-fired the Angus gun that ppl in our club have. Both are sweet, I thought there would be a challenge going from DA to SA but really, no big deal with the primo trigger jobs those guys do. If there is a 3lb rule in the future, they are tough to beat.

Really with any full-size gun it's not hard to shoot Minor ammo. If you like a light gun that you can put in the holster & forget it's there, plus be able to completely strip & reassemble quickly, the glock is fine. If you want THE easiest gun to shoot [like Edge vs Para] then try the CZ.

[chrisjohn]

BS or not, I am not BSing that I've seen four Glock 34s blow cases during matches... Never seen any other weapon do this or a glock with a KKM barrel. Your mileage may vary

[JThompson]

The easiest way to decide is buy them all. That solves everything.

Man after my own heart.

[oddjob]

I am a 1911 shooter and so between the G34 & the CZ's I would go with the CZ SP-01. I had a G35, but just couldn't get used to it. The transition from a 1911 pattern to the CZ SP-01 was easy. Both of my SP-01's were worked over by Matt Mink and they are very nice. So much so that a friend got one after playing with mine. In fact I got BOTH from General Chang!!

[torrpd]

Go with the G34 its cheaper. I made "A" class with a stock G17 other than adding a set of sights. Stock trigger. stock barrel all stock except fo sights.

[Overhung]

Go with the CZ as it has a similar grip angle as the 1911. You may not care about a platform change, but...

[blsexton]

Just an update and inserting my .02cents here. I walked into my favorite gunstore in Archdale NC and there was a 'like new' CZ75B for 325$!!!! Bought it and the pointability and recoil control are much better than the Glock Variants I've been used to. I shoot a G19 alot but the CZ is just a great all around gun. And for the price (even on new full retail versions) very hard to beat.

Thanks for all the input to other posters! CZ is definitely a bargain- it just 'feels' right in the hand. The bore axis is not as low as a Glock, but the weight of the gun really knock out felt recoil. When reloaded to a Minor PF load it should be a pipqeuk. The CZ version with a light rail and extra weight up front would even be better.

Looking back it is good to go with the CZ!

[Vlad]

Also should keep in mind the light/heavy thing. I've shot a CZ for a few years and I like the gun just fine. But I've recently switched to an M&P and couldn't be happier. After a while I really started to want a lighter gun. Heavy guns soak up recoil, sure, but I found a lighter gun easier to transition with, easier to carry a whole day, easier to shoot after at the end of a long match when my arms are tiered from working all day (I work most matches I shoot).

That said, all gun designs have their issues. I've never owned a glock, but the CZ's will break slide stop pins, will wear out extractors and extractor springs, and can have various fixable timing issues from the factory. I still think they are great guns. I like my M&P better in some ways, and less in others.

[Tacblack]

They both work great. The CZ reloads much much better then the glock for me. Thou seems to work for some Dave guy.

If you live in the US where we shoot Production 10 this is going to make a bigger difference then shooting Production in the rest of the world for making reloads.

If you can try them first its always the way to go. Get what feels best to you.

[Thomas H]

BS or not, I am not BSing that I've seen four Glock 34s blow cases during matches... Never seen any other weapon do this or a glock with a KKM barrel. Your mileage may vary

I'm curious about this--you've seen a Glock 9mm blow cases four times with (presumably) minor loads? Wow. When you say "blow cases" what exactly do you mean? What happened? Were they all reloads? Same person? New/old glocks?

I'd really like to know more details, if you have the time.

T.