Revopop Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir on this forum, but here goes. I shoot a Wilson KZ45 in USPSA L10 and IDPA CDP. It has a polymer frame. It has an external extractor. It has double stack mags. It has a full length guide rod. It has a beavertail grip safety. It has an extended thumb safety. Guess what? It shoots great! This rant was primarily sparked by a user on another forum, and this guy just galls me. I just don't understand why improvements to a classic design are so horrible. If you don't like the way a beavertail grip safety or a polymer frame looks, so be it, you're entitled to your aesthetic opinion, but don't tell someone that a Wilson 1911 is crap because it has a Swartz safety instead of the series 70. I'll take the Pepsi challenge and put my beat-up Wilson's trigger against any overpriced Colt Series 70 Gold Cup's trigger any day. And don't tell me that a single stack mag reloads as fast as a tapered double stack mag into a flared wide body mag well when you've never even shot any kind of action pistol match. Another thing I hate about these people is how they complain about how MIM or cast parts are junk, usually not knowing what their own 1911s are made out of or ever having seen a MIM part break outside of the internet, or being able to explain why Todd Jarrett and many others can shoot tens of thousand of rounds through their cast-frame Paras without a hiccup. The thing that gets me the most, though, is attacking the FLGR. This seems to be the whipping boy lately, and I don't understand why because it's such a trivial part. Again, if it's not your cup of tea, that's OK, but that's how my gun came. It also had a plastic standard guide rod and plug. Supposedly it's easier to take apart with the standard guide rod, but the bushing fits so tightly that I still had to use a bushing wrench anyway, so why not use the metal piece instead of the cheap plastic one? And what do you care if it's harder for me to take apart my own gun? (which it isn't) Bottom line, don't say I'm stupid and ignorant because I have a 1911 that doesn't fit your extremely narrow definition of what it should be, even though it's an extremely well-built, accurate, reliable pistol that I shoot really well. That came out a little angrier than i thought it would be, but I stand behind all my statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Bottom line, don't say I'm stupid and ignorant because I have a 1911 that doesn't fit your extremely narrow definition of what it should be, even though it's an extremely well-built, accurate, reliable pistol that I shoot really well. Ok, your not stupid and ignorant. You do not have a 1911 just like my STI isn't a 1911. Don't worry about the folks on the other "sites" complain about, you know you have a great gun based on the 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir on this forum, but here goes.Bottom line, don't say I'm stupid and ignorant because I have a 1911 that doesn't fit your extremely narrow definition of what it should be, even though it's an extremely well-built, accurate, reliable pistol that I shoot really well. Okay. You are not stupid or ignorant. You are blasphemous however. Heretic! That's talk. This post is not a rebuttal. I just could not find the tongue in cheek smilie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Well Hell! Here I was reading the title of your thread thinking I was "a fixin" to straighten someone out regarding the 1911 being inferior to this or that handgun. And now I find myself saying......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Well Glockopop, It sounds as if you might have run into some of them there 'gun-store commandos' on that other site. sure fits the descriptions I have heard. OBTW....Good rant dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameplayer Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Bottom line, don't say I'm stupid and ignorant because I have a 1911 that doesn't fit your extremely narrow definition of what it should be, even though it's an extremely well-built, accurate, reliable pistol that I shoot really well. Okay, I won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I guess you could call me an anti-purist. My buddy who's a fellow USPSA shooter also collects WWII era 1911A1's. When he shows them to me I always give him a list of mods I think he should make to his latest $2000 collectable. I usually say "this thing could really use a magwell, Bomar rear, fiber front, flgr, and an insanely oversized mag release button". I guess I'll never understand owning a gun that's not for shooting, just for lookin' at. Swede Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folsoml Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Amen, Brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I do have an appreciation for older 1911s but at the same time I think if JMB were to handle one of my STIs or Caspians he wouls smack himself in the forehead and say WTF didnt we do it that way to start with!----------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Yeah, I don't get the issue with full length guide rods. We put tens of thousands of rounds through our guns and they run better than most stock 1911s without the FLGR. The other thing that gets me is people complaining about front serrations on slides...what's wrong with them? I use mine all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Dogma sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Thanks. I needed that. I hate being told my 1911's are all crap because they don't have this name or those parts on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Yeah, I don't get the issue with full length guide rods. We put tens of thousands of rounds through our guns and they run better than most stock 1911s without the FLGR.The other thing that gets me is people complaining about front serrations on slides...what's wrong with them? I use mine all the time. Bart - FLGRs are useful for adding weight to the gun. If a 1911 doesn't run without a FLGR, it probably won't run with one, either. I won't have one again, since they're more hassle than they're worth. I don't see a use for front slide serrations, either, but then I came up before they were popular and learned how to use the rear ones. It's a free country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 theknightofflight...if you could only bring yourself to say what you're really thinking. Anyway, I have some really nice 1911's from STI, Colt, Springfield, Clark, 3 Les Baers, Para, and some customs. If I had to pick one gun from my collection to do everything, it would be my KZ-45 from Wilson. I have used it for everything and it does everything well. Don't let the unknowing get under your skin, you have one of the best guns out there. Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 theknightofflight...if you could only bring yourself to say what you're really thinking.Buddy I didn't want to start any fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Nice rant with intelligent overtones! Cool. (Maybe it's time to stay away from the turkeys on the other site). Now, let's talk about your username... and its implications in all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 (edited) Well.... here's something you can tell them: The old "fixed extractor" works OK as long as it's tuned and set up just right. HOWEVER: It really sucks in guns where you try to drop in a so-called "9mm conversion barrel" into a .40 slide (Barsto makes lot os them). 1) I dropped on into a Glock 35 = no prolblemo (pivoting external extractor) 2) Dropped one into a SIG 226R .40 = no problemo (pivoting external extractor) 3) dropped one into a XD Tactical .40 (fixed internal extractor) = won't extract 9mm worth crap. The fixed extractor can't "pivot over" and make up the smaller diameter rim's distance, so you are extracting with virtually zero extractor tension. I should have looked closer at the XD design before I bought that conversion barrel..... And if you (like I) figure you could fix this by shaving an extractor to fit the new barrel? Springfiled will not sell or furnish extractors for any amount of gold or begging..... So, I am not such a big fan of JMB's clever internal extractor these days. And even less of a fan of Springfield's lawyer management policies. Edited June 5, 2007 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 I don't think this is an anti 1911 rant so much as a anti 1911 snob rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revopop Posted June 6, 2007 Author Share Posted June 6, 2007 (edited) I don't think this is an anti 1911 rant so much as a anti 1911 snob rant. Exactly. As far as the username goes, my Glock 35 is the first gun I ever truly loved. I still have it, still use it. It's beside my be with a light/laser combo at night, and I used it in an IDPA match yesterday. Maybe that's the reason why the polymer frame appealed to me. Glockopop refers to a line in a song: "My Glockopop, pop, pop..." This is fast becoming my favorite forum. Edited June 6, 2007 by Glockopop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Glack Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 I guess you could call me an anti-purist. ... I guess I'll never understand owning a gun that's not for shooting, just for lookin' at. Swede +1 +1 !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 You shoot yours and I will shoot mine and to each his own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 (edited) I have spent a fair amount of time on a few 1911 forums, own or owned most of the semi-custom 1911s as well as some full house guns. My experience with some of the forums has led me to believe that some of these folks are frequently wrong but never in doubt. There are "purists" of every possible ilk out there. I committed the heinous offense of buying some vintage Colts for use as base guns for future projects. The Colt purists were more than a little offended that I would have these "classic" guns defiled or transformed into modern day shooters. I have never understood what type of insecurity would drive the level of debate I see over issues like the FLGR or FCS. Some of my guns have one or the other or both. Most of my 1911s are purpose built. I believe there is a use for just about any part or modification available for a 1911. I suspect a great many of the "purists" are either collectors or enjoy a very limited perspective. The 1911 forums I now frequent are similar in tone and quality to the BE fourm. The type of nonsense described by Glockopop is noticably absent. ETA I hope no one is hurt trying to read my post. I havn't a clue how I butchered the structure. I plead sleep deprivation. Edited June 7, 2007 by Slowhand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Slowhand and I both belong to a modest little 'purist' 1911 site out of Texas, and it's a safe 'n sane site that doesn't offend. In fact, its denizens happen to know a helluva lot about guns so I watch, read, listen. I happen to like the 1911 for a coupla-three decent reasons: It functions well, it's handsome, and it FITS. It's the most comfortable gun I've ever handled. I know a lot of people who happen to like the 1911. Truly beautiful guns. I also know numerous people who happen to like Glocks. I forgive them and retain their friendship anyway. It's all cool... (but 1911s rule.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Old car purests are not so nice ether they hate hotrods...would rather see an old car fade to rust than be a rod...makes no sence to me. I would not alter an old 1911 as it is history...but repair and upgrade an old (beater) you bet!! In our game...original equipment dont cut it!! ....the latest and greatest advantage...is a must have item I respect the purest for his love of our historic 1911, and the folks who have transformed it into the ammo slurping alpha alpha paper printing monster it is today! Hats off to both sides of this equation Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 (edited) I respect collectors I respect JMB But, given the modifications available to today, I bet JMB would have taken advantage of them. Like many great inventions of years gone by, as improvement become available, those great inventions become better. That is why my PSSD 1911 with the bells and whistles and the, YES, SVI Magwell, is better that JMB's original design!! God love progressive thinkers!!!!! And for the 1911 forum snobs on those other forums, YES, I carry my PSSD blaster with no problems!!! Edited June 7, 2007 by zhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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