Odd match trouble

[miyamoto]

Okay...looking for some kind of peace of mind to obtain.

Was shooting a uspsa match this past Sunday and from the first stage through the last (five stages) I have failure to feed malfunctions.

Happened on all magazines (6 mags) at random intervals.

I use Arredondo 140mm legal (shooting limited with glock 35) mag extensions which are relatively new. Not more than a thousand rounds fired using these new mags. Worked great until Sunday.

I use a stock barrel.

Oal with Zero jhp bullets 1.135 which have been working flawlessly before this day.

viht n320 powder. Major at 4.6gr

weather: sunny, dry about 90 degrees in Phoenix.

I thought at first, I was just Murphy's pawn, but then I watched several people have the same issues with their glocks...heard of several more having the exact same problem.

Failure to feed malfunctions.

The only person I am aware of that shot a glock with no problems was my lady who was using stock magazines in a glock 34.

It seemed to me most folks were using Arredondo mag extensions...I am not sure of this. I have no experience with anyone else's mag extensions anyway.

Everyone at the match was totally stumped!

The 1911 guys were just as stumped as anyone else.

Nobody had a clue why the glocks were all taking a dump like this.

It destroyed my confidence and I just had a terrible match.

Has anyone out there noticed this odd anomaly, if that is what it was?

Thanks,

Will

[Glk21C]

have you ever chaged the recoil spring? A couple thousand rounds and they need to be replaced. I couldn't tell by your thread whether or not there was about 1000 rounds through the gun or only through the magazines. Good luck

[mscott]

Take everything to a practice range and try each mag individually with the same ammo used during the match. You might also buy a box or 2 of factory ammo just to rule out bad ammo. Glocks don't need much, but a little bit of lube on the slide rails is good. There is also that possibility that it was just your day for the visit from Mr. Murphy.

[Hey QuicksDraw!]

My friend Olin was one of those having trouble with his Glock at that match. He said the super fine dust had dried out the gun causing the FTF.

[00bullitt]

I believe it to be a mag spring problem. Those Arredondo mags come with Wolff springs. I personally think Wolff springs suck and only use them when I cannot get an ISMI replacement. Piano wire takes a bad set and loses its tension in a short period of time. This is based on my personal findings and am sure will draw lots of argument. Chrome Silicon springs do not lose their tension when they take their set upon initial use and they last about 10 times longer. Try the 140mm ISMI springs for those mags and I think you will see your problems disappear. Several of my shooting friends have experienced the same problem you speak of that run the extended Arredondo pads and have replaced them with the ISMI 140mm spring and problem disappeared. The guns returned to being reliable Glocks again.

[HSMITH]

ISMI mag springs and stock springs in the gun. Works great and last a LONG time.

[RobMoore]

I had a problem with my Glock 31 in two matches with what I thought at first was a failure to feed. I discovered after some testing that it was merely premature slide-lock, caused by my support hand (thumbs forward grip) pushing up on the extended slide lock lever. For the slight advantage it gave me in the rare occasions I shoot to slide-lock, I wasn't about to relearn my grip to fix the situation.

Off it came and back on with the stock one, and problem solved.

[shadetree]

My bet is on the mag springs.

[G-ManBart]

have you ever chaged the recoil spring? A couple thousand rounds and they need to be replaced. I couldn't tell by your thread whether or not there was about 1000 rounds through the gun or only through the magazines. Good luck

Was that something you came up with based on your own experience or guidance someone gave you? It sounds very conservative. I'm not arguing, just curious.

My issue G22 had three thousand through it before I left the academy and it's had more than that through it since with the original spring and it's never malfunctioned on me yet. My personal G22 has even more rounds through it on the original spring and still works 100%.

[racerba]

Was shooting a uspsa match this past Sunday and from the first stage through the last (five stages) I have failure to feed malfunctions.

Glocks have a built in timer. On May 6 each year, it will randomly malfunction. It's only one day a year, so it's not too bad. I just carry something else that day.

[Newguy]

I agree it's probably mag springs, but I would drop check each bullet into the barrel before I started testing. This will rule out bad reloads, which in my experience, accounts for a lot of feeding problems.

[Irate]

My friend Olin was one of those having trouble with his Glock at that match. He said the super fine dust had dried out the gun causing the FTF.

I don't have much experience (read: none) with mag extensions, but if everyone was having the same problem with their glock, that sounds to me like an outside factor. +1 to what Hey QuicksDraw! is saying. Sounds like a reasonable conclusion to me.

Irate

[Stuck in C]

I had bad experience with ISMI 140 mm Glock springs and Arredondo pads. I was having occaisional failures with the Wolff springs that came with the pads, so I replaced them with the ISMI springs. They didn't even last one match. By the end of the match I was having consistent failures to feed. When I removed the springs they were warped, twisted and bent over. I was surprised, since I've found ISMI springs to be the best recoil springs I've ever used, and I really like their 1911 and stock length Glock magazine springs. Maybe there was a bad run of their 140 mm springs?

[Flexmoney]

Get that extended slide stop/release out of the gun and replace it with a stock version !!!

Anybody that uses the thumbs forward grip (like most of us in USPSA) will have issues.

What else have you changed in the Glock. I gotta assume that being in AZ...you probably are running with a light recoils spring ? After-market rod ? Magwell ?

What were the stages like this day ? Any chance some felt particularly SPEED driven ??

[Micah]

Glocks have a built in timer. On May 6 each year, it will randomly malfunction. It's only one day a year, so it's not too bad. I just carry something else that day.

That's bad luck for me...jams on my birthday, AND Area 6?

Get that extended slide stop/release out of the gun and replace it with a stock version !!!

Anybody that uses the thumbs forward grip (like most of us in USPSA) will have issues.

+1. Oh the horrors of using the extended slide stop lever

[miyamoto]

I run an ismi 14lb recoil spring which is also relatively new and has been working great.

I gauge all my rounds and have always prided myself on very consistent ammunition- redding comp seating die, lee fcd, etc.

The only common thread to everyones problems at that match was aftermarket mag extensions.

The arizona dust was normal. I have done self-defense training where I work transitions and simply drop an empty/problem gun (my g19) right into the dirt at my feet, to transition to a bridge weapon of some type for various scenario's. It runs fine dry and packed with dirt. So I can't look too far into that one.

With these mag extensions I have been shooting them for a few weeks now in heavy dusty winds after being dropped in the dirt with no prob. I always clean them after the match.

The stages were a good mix, 50y standards for a classifier, all the way down to a "burning down the house" hoser.

I had malf's slow fire to rapid. My grip is always good and consistent.

I am cursed with being left handed, so my thumbs don't contact the slide stop...I guess not so cursed then!

Yeah, the gun is fully set up for limited: dawson ice mag well, tungsten guide rod (which I have used for years).

Most peoples guns were tricked out in similar fashion. Olins gun is a really nice g22 with the slide all carved up. Very professionally done.

racerba- I will take your advice into account...that makes about the most sense!

Actually, I am going to order some ismi springs and see what I get with that. Little upsetting that the wolff(arredondo stock?) springs gave out so quick. Then again, this is the first time messing with extended mags.

Does anyone have better luck with Dawson precision mag extensions?

Do the ismi springs work with #6, #7 and #8 glock .40 followers?

Thanks everyone for the help and hopefully all our normally trusty glocks will be just that once more.

Will

Edited May 9, 2007 by miyamoto

[eric nielsen]

If you got your Glock to run with dropped, dirt-filled mags, even once, that was just a combination of incredibly good luck plus the strait-into-the-chamber feeding that is designed into the Glock.

Most competitors i've met will not use a dropped mag again until it is cleaned. Taken apart, tube cleaned out with a brush, silicone rag after that is better yet, then reassembled and loaded. An ipsc match makes you shoot in odd positions, so a gun & mag that barely work in practice can easily fail in the match.

I've got several of the Arredondo +5 extensions & i always thought the mag springs were a little weak. The springs take a set AND, my opinion, there's not enough coils on them.

It's tempting to keep using them because they have that squarish bottom coil that fits perfect in the mag extension but really, they're not strong enough. Replace the springs and clean your mags at the match.

[Glk21C]

have you ever chaged the recoil spring? A couple thousand rounds and they need to be replaced. I couldn't tell by your thread whether or not there was about 1000 rounds through the gun or only through the magazines. Good luck

Was that something you came up with based on your own experience or guidance someone gave you? It sounds very conservative. I'm not arguing, just curious.

My issue G22 had three thousand through it before I left the academy and it's had more than that through it since with the original spring and it's never malfunctioned on me yet. My personal G22 has even more rounds through it on the original spring and still works 100%.

own experience plus guidance

[Flexmoney]

- magwell screw can be too tight

- some ISMI recoil spring bind and limit rearward slide travel

I used to run Dawson pads and loved them, fwiw.

[miyamoto]

Thanks people,

I am going to order a dawson extension as well as I have been told this is the superior option.

Going to have to clean mags more often too...Now I will be just like all those people I always made fun of...cleaning mags after every stage.

oh well,

Have a good one,

Will

[Lee]

I have 6 mags for my Glock 35. Haven't cleaned one in 15,000 rounds. Only feed problems I have had have been my reloads. Crimp die backed out once. All mags get dropped. Only started using Arrendondo extentions a few months ago.

This is with Bar-sto barrel and stainless guide rod with 15lbs spring. Shoot more minor than major ammo with no problems.

Guess I'm just lucky. Maybe I will clean some mags this spring.

Kevin

[mlmiller1]

I'll just relate my experiences, ok? There is a range that holds a major match(www.doubletapranch.com) here in Texas. The first time I shot there, I had fail to feeds repeatedly. I got home, ordered all new mag springs. They worked perfectly until the next time I shot at the Dbl Tap ranch. Then the same thing started happening again! Halfway through the match, one of my squad mates hands me a mag brush & suggests I start cleaning my mags. I told him "it's a Glock, you don't have to do that with Glocks". He told me he didn't care what it was, if I wanted the gun to run, I needed to clean my mags every time one hits the ground. I used his brush & didn't have anymore fail to feeds for the rest of the match. Now if I go there, I clean them every time they hit the ground. I haven't had a fail to feed at that range since. Evidently it is the dirt, somehow it is different than what we have here & most other places I shoot. I've gotten so good at cleaning the mags with the arredondo bases, it only takes a few seconds.

I have used the dawson bases & the taylor freelance but the arredondo's seem to have a little more room in the mags when you load 20. That could be just mine, though. I can load 20 in all mine. I buy the springs from Arredondo. They are made by wolff but are supposed to be different than the wolff off the shelf springs. You can buy 10 at a time & they are at least as cheap as straight from wolff. Once a year, I replace them all. They may have been loaded 150-200 times in a year.

Good luck, hope you solve your problem. MLM

[Mick]

Lots of good advice and stuff to look for...

I had a buddy shooting a G35 with reloaded ammo.

At 1.135" there were no problems until he got in my ammo which is 1.160"

He had numerous failures from the ammo not moving in the mags correctly.

I didn't figure it out at first but when I saw my paint mark on his ammo is was obvious.

We have a bunch of Glock shooters here in the Dallas area and I don't many problems like this unless the ammo is wrong....

[jerseyglock]

Re-check your OAL. I'm on 1.12 and viht n320 powder

[dajarrel]

When we have a new shooter without a gun, I always loan them my G34. It is always rock solid even when my wife started shooting and was limp wristing the gun. At one match I noticed the guy using it was having problems with FTF. The gun had just turned into a jam-a-matic. He was using factory ammo in my mags. I took it to the safe area to look for something broken but all I noticed was that the rails were kinda dry. I lubed them up and it hasn't had a FTF since.

All the things mentioned here are problems that can occur. Some pretty frequently. But that was the only time mine had ever failed to run and it was due to a lack of lubrication.

YMMV

dj