shooterbenedetto Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I m looking for the lightest open gun and would like to get ideas to shave off ounces on my gun. it weighs 44oz. I shoot ipsc every week so it has to withstand major loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I'm thinking a Glock would be the lightest possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Lightest S_I open gun is probably the Stinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I don't think you can get much below about 35 ounces with an EXTREME lightened open gun. Mine is about 38 ounces or so for a full 5" gun and I can get another ounce out of the slide and maybe an ounce out of the frame but that is about it before really starting into areas that are extremely difficult to get or that can compromise durability. My gun was built from the beginning as light as I could get it, anything that I could get to save weight was bought. I also spent extra hours on the mill for very little gain. If you don't have a Serendipity you need one, an ounce or more lighter than a single side mount. A TI comp will save an ounce or more out front where it really matters. The slide, barrel and comp will only get so light though before you have problems with it outrunning the magazines, especially when you have a mag spring trying to push up a column of 25+ rounds. It doesn't matter if it is a 5" slide or a 4" slide, a certain amount of weight is needed. The barrel weight and comp weight figures into the overall upper weight, if you drop down to a bushing type barrel with a cone comp you might need to leave the ounce saved using that barrel in the slide. There is another ounce or a little more to be taken in the STI frame, but it is a bear to get. Read 'bear to get' as 'very expensive'. The last place there is some meaningful weight to come out is in the beavertail, they are a LOT heavier than they need to be but the only option right now is to mill it out and that again will be a VERY expensive ounce. The last couple ounces will take several hours of mill time, and several hours more of planning. The cost doesn't justify the outcome, unless you can do it yourself and don't mind spending hours and hours on something with little or no pay value. My gun at 38ish ounces is pretty straight forward, anything less is going to be much harder. There is a lot more to it than ^^^^^ but I hope it helps get the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 A Hardy Custom commander length open gun weighs 38.4 ounces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 My Rusty Kidd Viper with full length slide, 4 port hybrid barrel and 3 port comp weighs in at 39 ounces w/ room to lighten it if I wanted to. So...XRe's is in the club probably too. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I have a Buddy Runner custom STI that weighs in at 40 ounces, with a one-piece Brazos barrel & comp. We took ALOT of material off the front end. I use a Serendipity C-More mount, and an Arredondo mag release to shed some weight off. I don't know how much the Dawson ICE magwell weighs, but I am thinking of going to a smaller SV magwell for hand position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 If price is not an obstacle (is it ever?) you could get SV to build you a Ti framed, slided and comped open gun that would be scary light and a work of art... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Precision Designs Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 If price is not an obstacle (is it ever?) you could get SV to build you a Ti framed, slided and comped open gun that would be scary light and a work of art... Here we go again. The unrelenting search for the Open Gun "Holy Grail"... Yes, you can whittle away weight until the darn thing collapses within itself. But to what avail???? As Leo mentioned you can have Infinity build a super light frame in Titanium or even Aluminum (with their "steel rail inserts") and save some more weight. The weight you want off should be from the slide, more so than the barrel/comp assembly or the frame. That is where it really matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hey QuicksDraw! Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Eat more Wheaties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterbenedetto Posted April 9, 2007 Author Share Posted April 9, 2007 Thank you guys so much 38.oz is a lot better than 44oz... I will make the changes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996fan2007 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I don't think you can get much below about 35 ounces with an EXTREME lightened open gun. Mine is about 38 ounces or so for a full 5" gun and I can get another ounce out of the slide and maybe an ounce out of the frame but that is about it before really starting into areas that are extremely difficult to get or that can compromise durability. My gun was built from the beginning as light as I could get it, anything that I could get to save weight was bought. I also spent extra hours on the mill for very little gain.If you don't have a Serendipity you need one, an ounce or more lighter than a single side mount. A TI comp will save an ounce or more out front where it really matters. The slide, barrel and comp will only get so light though before you have problems with it outrunning the magazines, especially when you have a mag spring trying to push up a column of 25+ rounds. It doesn't matter if it is a 5" slide or a 4" slide, a certain amount of weight is needed. The barrel weight and comp weight figures into the overall upper weight, if you drop down to a bushing type barrel with a cone comp you might need to leave the ounce saved using that barrel in the slide. There is another ounce or a little more to be taken in the STI frame, but it is a bear to get. Read 'bear to get' as 'very expensive'. The last place there is some meaningful weight to come out is in the beavertail, they are a LOT heavier than they need to be but the only option right now is to mill it out and that again will be a VERY expensive ounce. The last couple ounces will take several hours of mill time, and several hours more of planning. The cost doesn't justify the outcome, unless you can do it yourself and don't mind spending hours and hours on something with little or no pay value. My gun at 38ish ounces is pretty straight forward, anything less is going to be much harder. There is a lot more to it than ^^^^^ but I hope it helps get the idea. Regarding the slide running faster than the slide, I would think one way to counteract that be to increase the length of slide travel, like Dawson Precision's stroker guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaG Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 How about fluting the barrel like JoJo does...... DaG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullzeye Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 +1 on the Rusty Kidd viper. That was the lightest open gun I ever owned. A little too light for me that is why I sold it. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY BARONE Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Just get a Dawson Stroker and shoot. Flattest and softest shooter available if you can get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Length of slide travel is a very small part of cyclic rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 My Viper was built on a long/wide dustcover frame that Rusty cut down a bunch - if you look at the pics in the Gallery thread, you can tell if you know that... It makes it just a tad heavier in the frame, but its still a lightish gun. I think its around 39-40 ounces. Just about perfect. After this season, its getting the 3 port comp put on, so that'll add in another ounce or so... it'll still be sweet.... Frankly, though - absolute weight doesn't have that much to do with it - unless you're just so wimpy you can't shove another half pound around... You can develop the speed and muscles to move the gun around at basically any practical weight, so.... If the gun gets too light, it'll be too violent at Major loads, and will become counterproductive to what you're trying to do... shoot As fast... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterbenedetto Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 DAG i already have the barrel flutted and yes JoJo did it.// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 (edited) Eat more Wheaties. +1 Bow Flex Or find a redhead to date or even better marry a Red head Or realy how about trying dry fire exersize with your race gun /super with a mag full of 200gr 40cal in the gun the bullets would not feed in the gun so a hazard could be avoided. I used to practice mounts with my 30" barrel sporting gun in a arobic exersize to help with my target speed. I bet that would work with a hand gun too sounds good I will try it and see how it works = get back to you in a few weeks JF Edited April 10, 2007 by AlamoShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I loaded up about 50 *Dummy* (NO PRIMERS / POWDER) rounds of 38 super to simulate the weight of a full mag, while dry-firing. This makes a BIG difference when you consider 28 rounds in 1 mag. It sure makes mag changes a little more difficult during dry-fire, but then that's the idea .... to practice with all things being equal ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Precision Designs Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 A lot has been spread around regarding the advantage of very light Open Gun. Is this a "fad", a passing fling with the newest/latest trend???? A few perceived advantages have been expressed by a some regarding ease of transition and target acquisition. Usually these has been noted by some shooters who are at the higher achievement/accomplishment levels, while the same is not true with beginning shooters who have not developed their optimum stances/balances or vise-like grips. But curious thing is that these same "accomplished" shooters seem to be able to score even better with the "larger" Open Guns than with their "Shorties/lighties". I guess shooters are finding out that shorter is not necessarlily better, while lightness is not an attribute limited only to the "shorties". There of course is the point of "diminishing returns" in lightness, as also has been noted in super heavy Limited guns. The "happy medium" should be whenever and wherever that perceived contentment with what you've got has been reached regarding the balance feel, optimum return to target in subsequent shots and ease of "putting on the brakes" during transitions. In other words how compliant the gun is in doing what we want it to do when we want it to do it. The specific tool/gun to achieve these goals will vary greatly between shooters, as their skills, prowesses/abilities and visions are very diverse too. Again, in simpler words, what works great for someone else may not necessarily work for you. It is good that we have these forums to share our findings and compare notes, but we must bear in mind that these are individual observations based upon individual findings that must be validated by the readers in order to be of use where they are concerned or compatible. After all spending a lot of money in something you read/heard about without verification of its usefulness to you individually can be very costly and sometimes even worthless. Sometimes not. But buyer beware. Check it out first by first hand experience from actual handling before you plunge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Well said Venry. I have owned 3 shorties, I now shoot a 5 inch gun and love it. I really don't see myself switching back to a shorty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Kwiat Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Removing weight on reciprocating parts, e.g., slide = good. A little off on frame == not bad. But, as has been said before; it is a trade off. I know one friend who had one of the SVs made up to be as light as possible due to physical limitations in his shoulder. It's a nice shooter and works for his special situation. But, when you loose too much mass you pay for it in other ways. I had a SV IMM (aka "Zip Gun") when they were at the extreme of expansion chambers, short length, etc. With the high pressure loads required to make major, that gun beat me up. I shot about 30K rounds in a three month period and developed tendonitis in my forearms. Once I returned to a more conventional 5" (slide ligthened with EGW cuts, Trubore), no more problems. The IMM was/is a beautiful gun but if you are going to put alot of lead downrange, buyer beware. 2cents (well, given the topic more like $3K). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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