Sestock Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Just compileing some of the aerly season Match results for the WPA Section and there is a dramatic increase in SS competitiors. With a little over 400 shooters SS is up to 11% of the total. Hopefully the trend will continue throughout the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 This "dramatic increase" is REALLY going to happen when the division is recognized and classifiers start being recognized and recorded and used.... IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 This "dramatic increase" is REALLY going to happen when the division is recognized and classifiers start being recognized and recorded and used....IMO. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walangkatapat Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 (edited) or if they get rid of L10. Edited March 29, 2007 by walangkatapat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerwas Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Oh boy, here we go again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 or if they get rid of L10. Lets not make this "us vs them" again. We have had plenty of that crap already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walangkatapat Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 or if they get rid of L10. Lets not make this "us vs them" again. We have had plenty of that crap already. LOL! The devil made me do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipscbob Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 A$$H*&^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkS_A18138 Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Get rid of OPEN those damn guns are loud! I am glade to see SS up. I know is has grown a little more in our area also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 This "dramatic increase" is REALLY going to happen when the division is recognized and classifiers start being recognized and recorded and used....IMO. I think you're probably right, Merlin... Get rid of OPEN those damn guns are loud! If its TOO LOUD, you're TOO OLD!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 It will be interesting to see this increase manifest itself in majors, and which ones...FlOpen -- fewer, Double-Tap 1 more, A6 about the same, based on a quick look at the online squadding form? About 2%? I admire Z and Merlin for blazing the trail, but a major match is a lot of $$$ to shoot against a couple other people. Could major matches, and/or sponsors, not deliberately skew money and prizes in favor of this division? Possibly that would prime the pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 (edited) Merlin & Boo make some excellent points. Thanks To You Two!! I shot in a couple Level III major matches last year where there were so few shooters in SS that virtually no awards were handed out to SS shooters. (maybe one to the division champ) In one match--- I was top Super Senior overall....and tops in my divsion (of only 4)--and never received so much as a tee shirt or a ribbon for a $100+ entry fee. If I had picked L-10 with the same score.. I would have won a bundle of goodies. (that's just not right. That type of "crap" will continue until the USPSA realizes that SS is potentially the largest "audience" in action shooting outside of Production. Sure... Open guns are fun and sexy.. but it's a very narrow market looking at the big picture. (It's like looking at Formula I vs. stock car racing) Also---- Keep L-10... it gives the "wide body" 1911's which are not running at limited technology a place to "play"... No shooter should be put in a position where their choice of pistols puts them TOTALLY out of the playing field. (some are better-- some are worse)... but the "rules" shouldn't put a shooter out of the game. That's the type thinking in USPSA... that "created" IDPA. Rant Done!! ! ! Edited March 29, 2007 by MichiganShootist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdavis Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I questioned several of the people in the know on this topic and why we could not must do away with the provisional status. Their answers made sense. During the PS we can play with the rules until we get them right. Once it has full status the rules are locked in place for 2-3 years. I for one would rather have them get it right and then play without changes. While I don't really see a need for L10, I say live and let live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 (edited) Folks we are considering making the PSSD fulltime in the next meeting, which will be on line. When I dreamed this division up and pushed for the 3 year test, it was as Bill stated. To try, perhaps for once, to get the rules right before they went active. Circumstances have changed though with the dual track we have adopted with USPSA and IPSC, and the printing of a new USPSA rulebook for 2008. I am now leaning toward an early kick off due to the printing cost, logistics, etc. We will be voting on this in a very short time. If things don't work out, we can take a vote that is out in the open for everyone to look at, and eliminate the division if needed. I am suggesting that the DOH type holster be allowed for females in the SS division, but males would still maintain the higher positioning of the holster. If you have any reasonable suggestions to make the current published rules better, please contact me ASAP. I am glad to discuss reasoning that I have made in this venture, but please do some searches for this topic as I have explained almost all of it numerous times. Gary Edited March 30, 2007 by Gary Stevens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 If you have any reasonable suggestions to make the current published rules better, please contact me ASAP. I am glad to discuss reasoning that I have made in this venture, but please do some searches for this topic as I have explained almost all of it numerous times.Gary With the patience of a Saint I must add...... GREAT JOB, Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscott Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I am suggesting that the DOH type holster be allowed for females in the SS division, but t males would still maintain the higher positioning of the holster. Gary It doesn't sound like a good idea to start seperating rules or equipment by gender, age, or anything else. I agree with pretty much everything you've said on this subject, but not this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 (edited) If you notice we have done this for many, many years. Rule 5.2.3.1 currently allows females to lower their belt, and all alied equipment by sewing on additional belt loops at a lower location. This would accomplish the same thing, without having the practice of sewing belt loops be mandated. This is nothing new, but it is a continuing effort by me to have the SS Division be something a little different from all of the other divisions. Not radically different, but just a little different. Gary Edited March 30, 2007 by Gary Stevens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Great Work Gary, once again!! I am typing this post with the smell of Clays on my hands courtesy of a match tonight, as always, I shot SS .45!!! Gotta love it!! Let's drop the "P" ASAP and make it SSD!! Go Gary!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 If we're lucky we have 1 SS shooter at our matches. L-10 badly outnumbers Production most matches. Our L-10 shooters have no interest in SS, as most of them aren't shooting 1911s and our 1911 shooters know L-10 is a great place for a SS and they enjoy the rules freedom in that division. I ran a SS Kimber in L-10 for 3 years, never scared of widebody guns or feeling I needed protection against them. Even won a state title with it. I'd like to see SS run the planned 3 year course, but I see it as another Revolver division in terms of attendance by the time all is said and done. The classifiers should count just to remove the last excuse, or hopefully give it a jumpstart. Our new shooters show up in L-10 shooting plastic guns that wouldn't be welcome in SS, so that's why I think we'd lose many more shooters than we'd gain if SS replaced L-10. Quit tying SS to L-10 and you'd have a lot more support, or at least not many would fight it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 The beauty of our sport is we have choices. Those who despise SS so much don't have to shoot it. Those who want to shoot their SS gun in L-10 can still do so. Of course that is thanks to people like me who fought to keep L-10 alive when others were trying to kill it. We will never have a true picture of the potential of SS until the classifier issue is solved. As I said, if it turns out to be an Edsel, we can take a vote, out in the open, and remove it, Then all one has to do it mark an "X" through that appendix and we are finished. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 SS is never going to rival Limited, or possibly even Open. Every "kid" always wants the coolest toys, and those two divisions certainly have them. Open and Limited guns, although playing buy the same rules, are NOT equal in my opinion. Lots of stuff going on and differences in mag capacities, even tho the mag lengths are the same. I have 21 round Limited mags, one of which is 21 reloadable. NOT every Limited shooter has these But SS will provide a LEVEL playing field!!! Pure and simple, 8 rounds Major, 10 Minor as proposed at this time. If kept 1911, the guns will be VERY similar!! The race will have ended. Production is a VERY popular Division, but there is racing going on, otherwise there would not be the big hullibaloo about the trigger and the proposed 3# trigger. I also believe, if many of these production guns were field stripped for inspection, there just might be some illegal mods come to light Limited 10 matches have been won with skinny guns, and skinny guns will be competitive, but... A wide body is just faster to reload, no way you can make me believe otherwise. And I am not talking about the perfect one time reload. Do 10 consecutive reloads with a wide-body, and then 10 with a skinny gun, divide by 10, no way you can do it as fast!! SSD going to be the division of parity, and will give you the opportunity to let you skills shine!!! You should not be beaten by equipment!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Most people who shoot seem to plan a bit ahead.. the fact that this is really the first full year of Single stack it should be pretty neat. i will be shooting a couple of matches until the single stack classic.. then it's back to production for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK74 Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 The turn out at our last match was larger then normal, thanks the upcoming state match, we had 84 shooters. I believe we had 6 or 7 SS shooters, more L10 shooters then that and one revolver shooter. Our largest division was production with about 25 shooters, back when production was new there was little interest or participation in it at our club for several years, then is just started to grow, now its one of our big three (Limited, production and open). I guess my point is you can’t look at one club, at one point in time and predict the future, maybe SS will be the next Revolver division or maybe it will be the next production division. I believe there is room in the USPSA for SS, lets make it a real division and see where it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFisher Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I have a plain mil spec Rock Island 1911 SS .45 and was glad to see there is a division for it. I read the rules off the USPSA web site to see what could and couldn't be done to the gun and still be legal. A couple of club members said no mag well is allowed, As I read it you can have them. So I just ordered a Wilson Combat mag well, a nice Hogue grip, filed the rear sight notch a bit wider and painted the front sight orange, I'M READY TO GO!!! I plan to start shooting SS at our next match this Sunday. I will be the only shooter in this class maby I'll inspire a few others LOL!!! I would also like to see this division non-provisional so we can classify. I had been shooting an XD-9 in production but really like shooting my.45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walangkatapat Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 If we're lucky we have 1 SS shooter at our matches. L-10 badly outnumbers Production most matches. Our L-10 shooters have no interest in SS, as most of them aren't shooting 1911s and our 1911 shooters know L-10 is a great place for a SS and they enjoy the rules freedom in that division.I ran a SS Kimber in L-10 for 3 years, never scared of widebody guns or feeling I needed protection against them. Even won a state title with it. I'd like to see SS run the planned 3 year course, but I see it as another Revolver division in terms of attendance by the time all is said and done. The classifiers should count just to remove the last excuse, or hopefully give it a jumpstart. Our new shooters show up in L-10 shooting plastic guns that wouldn't be welcome in SS, so that's why I think we'd lose many more shooters than we'd gain if SS replaced L-10. Quit tying SS to L-10 and you'd have a lot more support, or at least not many would fight it. Good Post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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