Seniors/super Seniors- Speak Up Now For Equal Recognition

[Lee Bell]

I'm with Merlin on this one! Special recognition because 1) we failed to die and 2) we shot crappier than other guys ? Not needed. This is beginning to sound like the Special Olympics.

Later,

Chuck (6th year as a senior)

I see your point, but conclude otherwise. I think equal treatment is probably the right way to go. There's a team designation for juniors, who are stronger, faster, and can see better than I ever will again, and one for women, some of whom are also stronger, faster and can see better than I ever will again, why not for seniors and super seniors who, through no fault of their own, aren't as strong, aren't as fast, and can't see all that well either?

Why not provide for the group that includes those that founded the sport. It's not like it diminishes the achievements of anyone else, unless, of course, you just get off on beating a bunch of old, semi blind, semi lame codgers.

Lee

Senior (59).

[benny hill]

I will be shooting senior for 15 years now because of this stupid ruleing.

[Larry White]

I will be shooting senior for 15 years now because of this stupid ruleing.

I hope your right.----------Larry

[Singlestack Wonder]

Senior's UNITE! Let's form the United States Senior Action Shooting Association. One must be 50 years or older to join, and the sport will have two disciplines: Action and Defensive.

[BSmith]

Most of the candidates for office are officially on the record as being in complete support of a self funded official USPSA team, while others are conditionally supportive. As to many incumbents, they must not care about the Seniors as the silence is deafening, particularly those not up for election.

Please let all of the USPSA leadership know that the issue of equal recognition for Senior shooters IS NOT GOING AWAY!

For the record current Area 6 Director Charles Bond and current Area 5 Director Gary Stevens are in favor of a USPSA Seniors team. The President has not issued his official position, but several of the Presidential candates are very much in favor of giving the single largest group of USPSA members the respect and recognition they deserve, including Gary Stevens and Ray Hirst.

Another inequity to address is while Seniors comprise by far the largest group of shooters at the Nationals, the awards system does not award Seniors in the same manner as Juniors and Ladies.

The relevant email addresses are:

area1@uspsa.org;

area2@uspsa.org;

area3@uspsa.org;

area4@uspsa.org;

area5@uspsa.org;

area6@uspsa.org;

area7@uspsa.org;

area8@uspsa.org;

president@uspsa.org;

vicepresident@uspsa.org

[Charles Bond]

I am still receiving a great deal of feedback from my members who are in favor of the seniors world shoot team and giving the seniors the same level of award at our nationals that Juniors and Ladies receive. This is however not an issue with me since I have long expressed support for these ideas. From what I am hearing from other ADs, they are not receiving any feedback on this subject. While my area includes lots of retirees in Florida, most of the feedback I have received is from other states.

If this issue is important to you, I would recommend that you follow up personally with your USPSA AD.

Charles Bond

[B.J. Norris]

Another inequity to address is while Seniors comprise by far the largest group of shooters at the Nationals, the awards system does not award Seniors in the same manner as Juniors and Ladies.

My copy of the 2007 Open/L10 nationals matchbook shows that the Top Senior goes to the prize table before, the Top Junior. In fact, if the top junior finishes outside the Top 16, they are the last person to visit the prize table before switching to the order of finish starting at 17th place.

As far as the awards ceremony itself goes, Seniors and Juniors get exactly the same recognition and exactly the same plaque award, the only glass diamonds given are to the Overall and Ladies National Champions.

[Jim Norman]

I am not really upset about Senior recognition or the lack therof. At a match, I am not tryiing to win over the next old fart in line, I am trying to beat the B.J Norris's of the world. (Snowballs chance of course)

Juniors I think may need special recognition. Senior at 50, not really sure if that is fair or not. Ture enough I can't run or see as fast as a 30 year old, but the ability to shoot well and to know my shots is not something that is all speed and age. Consistency is a good thing as is base ability. Perhaps we should have a "Novice" category as opposed to a Junior Category, you join, submit 4 classifers and are Novice for one year, or until you reach A class, which ever comes first.

Senior, maybe 60 for senior and 70 for Super? Not all that sure as I am still a fairly spry 54. I can still run OK, I just can't go 48 hours without sleep like I used to.

Jim

[SoonerPast]

An organizational growth strategy that encourages grandparents to introducie grand children may have merit. We "boomers" are reaching the point at which leisure time is at its max and are at the peak of the career earnings curve. There are some powerful demographics to consider.

[BillL223]

When I started USPSA shooting in 1994, I was a "Senior". Didn't mean a thing to me then and still doesn't. In 2004 I totally screwed up the Mid-Atlantic Section match and much to my surprise, received a plaque in the mail for High Super Senior Open. This is nailed to the wall over my reloading bench but not nearly as important as my 2006 Kentucky Class B Multi-Gun plaque against all shooters. I know my best days as a shooter are behind me but it makes no difference as to how I approach or enjoy a match and I could care less about being a Senior or Super Senior. I will continue to try to beat the young whipper-snappers like Jim N and try keep up with the old sages like Dave S and Allan Z.

[Jaxshooter]

Latest issue of Front Sight page 68, 2008 World Team Selection policy. The BOD agreed that non- funded teams (Seniors and Super Seniors) will not be named to the 2008 World Shoot.

[JThompson]

Latest issue of Front Sight page 68, 2008 World Team Selection policy. The BOD agreed that non- funded teams (Seniors and Super Seniors) will not be named to the 2008 World Shoot.

Cough *bullsh8t* cough. Ignoring people because of their age is something we need to address and not just in shooting sports.

I'm in.

JT

[Charles Bond]

Here is an issue that deserved much more support than USPSA gave it. There is an election in a month and it is pretty clear from the USPSA election forum who was for and who was against this idea. Remember it all at election time.

Charles Bond

[vluc]

Here is an issue that deserved much more support than USPSA gave it. There is an election in a month and it is pretty clear from the USPSA election forum who was for and who was against this idea. Remember it all at election time.

Charles Bond

Hmm, would those same people be voting for the changes in delineation for Senior and Super Senior? Change the ages and you change the mix.

[Charles Bond]

Here is an issue that deserved much more support than USPSA gave it. There is an election in a month and it is pretty clear from the USPSA election forum who was for and who was against this idea. Remember it all at election time.

Charles Bond

Hmm, would those same people be voting for the changes in delineation for Senior and Super Senior? Change the ages and you change the mix.

The ages for senior and super senior did change for USPSA and there was a group from Area 6 that lobbied for over 2 years for that change. It was a motion and vote I made against my own personal interest since I will be 50 next year. That however is not what this is about. It is rather about USPSA giving its largest category the time of day when it involves sending teams to the World Shoot. What is an is do a senior or super senior age in the US does not change the fact that USPSA sends a junior and ladies team while ignoring our two larger categories.

Charles Bond

[vluc]

Charles, you don't change the ages for juniors (maybe you should stay one until you are 21), and you don't change the sex for ladies. So why the change for seniors and super seniors?

You want to recognize them - and that is fantastic, but then you roll the designation. A senior/super today, or a person who has been a senior/super for 4 years, all of a sudden is not one by your designation. But then you tell us how important we are and that we should be recognized - in an few more years when you actually meet the new designation- unless it changes again.

[Charles Bond]

Charles, you don't change the ages for juniors (maybe you should stay one until you are 21), and you don't change the sex for ladies. So why the change for seniors and super seniors?

You want to recognize them - and that is fantastic, but then you roll the designation. A senior/super today, or a person who has been a senior/super for 4 years, all of a sudden is not one by your designation. But then you tell us how important we are and that we should be recognized - in an few more years when you actually meet the new designation- unless it changes again.

So pray tell what is the concern? We have many older shooters who do not desire to shoot against the younger shooters. Who is and who is not an older shooter varies with region. Since I have Florida, you can be sure that I have plenty of members who finally moved out of the rust belt to the sunny south. They asked for the ages for senior and super senior to be revised and worked hard on it and the USPSA BOD listened. Even with the revision in ages, there is no shortage of seniors and the number of super seniors grew.

The greater policy question is how do we justify sending to the world shoot a ladies team which is our smallest category of shooters and a junior team which is our second smallest category of shooters but not send either a senior team which is our largest category of shooters or a super senior team which is our second largest category of shooters? Change of age did not address the policy. Only some additional interest from seniors and super seniors will do that.

Charles Bond

[shred]

FWIW, IPSC does not currently recognize Senior or Super Senior teams (though there are always noises about doing so), thus sending such teams to the World Shoot might be a little odd if they won't actually be recognized beyond the overall results.

If the point of being on the S or SS 'team' is somebody gets a slot to the WS and a cool thing to print on their shirt, then go for it, but as of now, it would carry about as much official standing as the Guatamalan Gold Drinking Team does.

[tightloop]

FWIW, IPSC does not currently recognize Senior or Super Senior teams (though there are always noises about doing so), thus sending such teams to the World Shoot might be a little odd if they won't actually be recognized beyond the overall results.

If the point of being on the S or SS 'team' is somebody gets a slot to the WS and a cool thing to print on their shirt, then go for it, but as of now, it would carry about as much official standing as the Guatamalan Gold Drinking Team does.

As a former member of the GGDT, I resent that remark...

[Charles Bond]

No body who is S or SS would get an automatic slot to the WS under the Brian Smith proposal. I do however think it bears asking why USPSA officially supports teams made up of our two smallest categories but not our two largest.

Those posting notes that IPSC does not yet officiailly recognize SS or S teams are correct but that will change at the next IPSC meeting per Vince Pinto The point here really is that if USPSA can do this, it will cost them no money and no slots, so why not do it? While I agree that we need to send offfically recognized teams, for people to plan a trip to the other side of the world, we can not wait until the IPSC rule change is official to start a process.

Charles Bond

[shred]

No body who is S or SS would get an automatic slot to the WS under the Brian Smith proposal. I do however think it bears asking why USPSA officially supports teams made up of our two smallest categories but not our two largest.

We want those two categories to grow?

I believe we should have a team for every team category recognized by IPSC-- including Modified. If we're not giving out slots and not supporting them any, then what does it hurt?

[38superman]

I am not really upset about Senior recognition or the lack therof. At a match, I am not tryiing to win over the next old fart in line, I am trying to beat the B.J Norris's of the world. (Snowballs chance of course)

Senior, maybe 60 for senior and 70 for Super? Not all that sure as I am still a fairly spry 54. I can still run OK, I just can't go 48 hours without sleep like I used to.

Jim

+1

I haven't really given too much thought to being a senior, perhaps I should have.

Maybe that's because I was already a senior when I joined USPSA and shot my first match.

Perhaps it's because I live in the gym and I'm not ready to concede anything to the kids just yet.

Some of them can outrun me, some of them can outshoot me, but I can still bench 240 and chew with my own teeth.

That having been said, I think seniors deserve more recognition than they get and I thank Mr. Bond for pressing that agenda. Good work Charles.

Tony

Edited July 12, 2007 by 38superman