elenius Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I am buying my first 1911 next week, yay! It's going to be a single stack 45. I live in CA, so I can't get STIs (or the new Taurus, which otherwise seemed like a good bargain). I am considering: 1) Kimber Team Match http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/goldmatch/teammatch.php 2) Springfield Trophy Match http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/goldmatch/teammatch.php (sorry, no way to link directly to the gun on their new web site) Both have very similar sets of features: Stainless steel, adjustable sights, fitted barrels, magwells, etc. Local shops have both for about $1280, which seems like a good deal. On the Kimber, the grips definitely have to go, so that's another $60 for rosewood ones. I also like the look of the frame and slide a bit better on the Springer. But according to the specs, the Kimber has a lighter trigger pull: 3.5-4 lbs vs 4.5-5 on the springfield, which seems kind of high. But will I notice a difference? Is the Kimber trigger really better? I was hoping someone might be able to help me with my decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiksaputok Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 SPRINGFIELD USED BY WORLD CHAMPION ROB LEATHAM. AND YOU CAN USE THE $60 DOLLARS FOR THE GRIP TOWARDS THE TRIGGER JOB. I KNOW SOMEONE THAT CAN DO IT FOR YOU IN CA IF YOU LIVE IN THE VALLEY AREA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I am buying my first 1911 next week, yay! It's going to be a single stack 45. I live in CA, so I can't get STIs (or the new Taurus, which otherwise seemed like a good bargain). I am considering:1) Kimber Team Match http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/goldmatch/teammatch.php 2) Springfield Trophy Match http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/goldmatch/teammatch.php (sorry, no way to link directly to the gun on their new web site) Both have very similar sets of features: Stainless steel, adjustable sights, fitted barrels, magwells, etc. Local shops have both for about $1280, which seems like a good deal. On the Kimber, the grips definitely have to go, so that's another $60 for rosewood ones. I also like the look of the frame and slide a bit better on the Springer. But according to the specs, the Kimber has a lighter trigger pull: 3.5-4 lbs vs 4.5-5 on the springfield, which seems kind of high. But will I notice a difference? Is the Kimber trigger really better? I was hoping someone might be able to help me with my decision. If you like the looks of the Springfield a little better then don't worry about the listed trigger pull weights. Also, the Springfield has a $140 higher suggested retail price so maybe you're dealer is giving you a bit better deal if the two are the same price. Any good gunsmith can do a trigger job that will get it exactly where you want it without much trouble. I think most people would say that the actual trigger on the Springfield is a better part than that on the Kimber, not that it would make a big difference assuming the same work was done on the two guns in question. Either one would probably do everything you want and both are nice guns. Good luck with whichever you pick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I would get the Springfield. Springfield supports the shooting sports (USPSA) more than Kimber. I have 6 to 8 SA guns and they have all been very decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I would not get either one. I have found that the plain Kimber Custom guns are more than accurate enough. I have had very good results with the Custom Stainless Target models. Stock trigger pulls are totally irrelevant. Any good gunsmith can provide you with a crisp 3.0 lb trigger pull for $50-$75. None of my Kimbers grouped OVER 1 1/2" at 25 yds. I have had eight of them over the years. My current CST will put 10 rounds well inside a 2" Shoot-N-C at 25 yds. OTOH my $400 RIA Tactical does this at 20 yds. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...ost&id=6971 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 (edited) I looked at both these pistols last year... and bought the Springfield Trophy Match. I don't know if they are still "optioned out" like they were back then.... but at that point I could get the "springer" for several hundred dollars less and it came with a number of items that the Kimber didn't have Including a checkered front strap and a C & S mag. well. I added a Dawson FO front sight and it has been a great gun. Also the trigger needed nothing doe to it out of the box..... so--SA gets my vote. And +1 to SAs support of the sports. Kimber won't donate a penny to USPSA or IDPA matches.... vs SA that does a lot. Edited January 7, 2007 by MichiganShootist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XD Niner Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I'd buy the Springer. My Black Stainless has been great and is extremely accurate. You will undoubtedly want a trigger job on either gun so the starting trigger weight is of little import. As noted above, Springfield supports our sport and Kimber does not. The major differentiator for me was the life time Springer warranty. This applies to all owners of their guns and not just the original purchaser. I've had to use it twice now (broken seer at 14K rounds and broken extractor at 18K rounds). In both instances, the CS folks were very helpful, turnaround was less than two weeks including shipping time and they even paid all shipping costs. Also, if you ever want to sell it you'll have an easier time when prospective buyers know it is still covered by the warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Given that the guns look to have the same features (I hate the new SA web page. Somebody goes to the local community college and takes a webmaster course and the next thing you know you have to find and click fifteen friggin buttons to get to a list of features ) I would choose Springfield for their strong support of USPSA. They have sponsored a stage at all the Area matches that I have been to and they supply guns for the prize tables. I hever heard of Kimber doing any of that. Where in Ca do you shoot? Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
half inch groups Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 (edited) I have 3 springfields and 2 Kimbers in 9mm,.38 super and .45 . I have an older trophy match and love the serrated flat topped slide, and I like it alot. its a little rough around the edges and could probably use a lighter recoil spring and a lot of polishing. my kimber custom II was my first 1911, and I agree w Joe. Kimbers are really nice! Now Kimber's Team match looks like a really nice gun, but in reality its just a Target II w a magwell and those fancy grips. everything else is the same as the Custom II, except for the adjustable sights and whats mentioned above. If you want a "team match" gun, I have a Supermatch II and its about as nice as a 1911 can come out of the box. the trigger breaks at under 3.5lbs, its got a magwell, bomar like sites, and the fit is as nice as some of my custom STI's. If your planning on customizing it further than a trigger job, get a springer because design is identical to colt, remington, EB, or even a Les gun. there's a lot more you can do to a SA than a kimber. I just think their is less to do on a Kimber than a SA. Para supports these sports a lot and depending where you are, its a nice hi cap gun for the money. Their a bit looser than the SA's and the kimbers, but you can find so many parts for em, they make great action pistol platforms. Just read you were in CA... My bad. no widebodies for you. Go w springfield. Edited January 7, 2007 by half inch groups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Springfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elenius Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) Thanks for the replies, guys. I shoot in Richmond (bay area). Does anyone know of a gunsmith in my area who does a good inexpensive trigger job in a reasonable amount of time? I was hoping I wouldn't have to do this. You guys don't think either of these triggers is good enough stock? How light would you go on the trigger? (I can get a para wide body, but I want a single stack for now). Edited January 8, 2007 by elenius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hello: Look at the Kimber Eclipse as well. They shoot very well and have alot of features. You can find them for around $900. Thanks Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rishii Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 get the Trophy match if our ordering direct from springfield, see if the custom shop will do a trigger job before they ship it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elenius Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 The Eclipse Custom Target II has an MSRP of $1261. Prices in my local stores are usually about 10% less (and then you add tax and CA fees, and it's pretty much back where it started). It's a really nice looking gun, although they don't make a matching magwell in that dark metal finish. I don't think I can order a gun customized from Springfield. They have to sold be exactly as they were shipped to the CA DoJ for testing, as I understand it. I can send it back to them later, but that would cost me shipping two ways. I would rather find a local gunsmith. I searched a bit, and it seems like some of the gun shops have gunsmiths, so I'll check that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kahuna Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I would not get either one. I have found that the plain Kimber Custom guns are more than accurate enough. I have had very good results with the Custom Stainless Target models. Stock trigger pulls are totally irrelevant. Any good gunsmith can provide you with a crisp 3.0 lb trigger pull for $50-$75.None of my Kimbers grouped OVER 1 1/2" at 25 yds. I have had eight of them over the years. My current CST will put 10 rounds well inside a 2" Shoot-N-C at 25 yds. OTOH my $400 RIA Tactical does this at 20 yds. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...ost&id=6971 Agree with Joe D's comments. Actually, I don't think you can go wrong with either the Springer or the Kimber... but I have a Kimber that has run like a sewing machine for over 70 thousand rounds, so that is what I am comfortable recommending. So far I have only needed to replace recoil springs and firing pin springs, everything else is stock (except I added a cheesy Wilson magwell) and it continues to run well. You are looking at under $800 these days for a Classic Custom Stainless, a little more for the Target version with BoMar-like adjustable sights. My Kimber has never been to a smith. I reduced my trigger pull to a safe and reliable 2.9 pounds, without replacing/modifying the stock hammer/sear/disconnector, just by cleaning the trigger bow raceways and re-tensioning the sear spring. If I "needed" a 2 pound trigger I'd buy the Extreme Engineering hammer/sear/disconnector from Chuck at Shooter's Connection for $130 and retension the sear spring. I'm so happy with the gun as it sits I don't plan on changing anything except maybe upgrading to an SVI magwell like the one Merlin has on his Spartan. I confess, I have magwell envy. With that out of the way, I would also think hard about the RIA tactical that Joe mentioned. The specimen that I handled really impressed me for a $400 pistol. The money you save versus a $800-$1280 Kimberfield could go a long way toward training, more ammo, gunsmithing, or other necessities like holsters/mags/pouches. A friend of mine is in the process of buying an RIA Tactical now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 70,000 rounds! You mean to tell me those dreaded MIM parts have not turned to powder. I get a chuckle when I hear folks say the first thing they MUST do is replace all the MIM parts in their new gun. I like the Eclipse looks. I would probably buy one if they did not come with the dumb night sights. Night sights are worse than useless on a competition gun. I wish Kimber would make them an option rather than standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D. Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Buy AMERICAN...GET A KIMBER. Sure TGO (Rob Leatham) uses a Springfield they are his sponsor, what else would he use??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hello: Kimber does make a magwell that matches the Eclipse. I did replace the sights on mine with a Novak rear adjustable(replaced fixed sight) and the front FO is either a EGW or a Brazos. I like the rear sight just as much as a Bomar. Keep looking for better prices. Hope this helps. Thanks Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G+16 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Springfield, I have several, including the match 45 and 40, did have all of them throughted a little deeper and trigger job at about 4 lbs, runs like a striped ape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I have a kimber custom I shoot, it's plenty accurate and never had any problems with it. Won a few local bullseye matches with it too. If your shooting uspsa and ever plan to go to the single stack classic, springfield does a LOT for it's shooters there. That's the main reason i would buy their gun. Not to mention the large amount of support it lends to USPSA in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f250sd Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Buy the springer, put in a steel firing pin, toss out the titanium one it comes with, put in a 17lb main spring, and you'll have a very nice trigger pull for around $20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiksaputok Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 try to check calguns one of the guy is selling springfield for $1000 http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=45615 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elenius Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 I ended up getting a Kimber Custom II. The most basic version, blued and fixed sights. It was $728 plus taxes and CA DROS fee, not too bad I think. Ordered the rosewood grips and the black magwell from Kimber. Now I'll have to start learning about 1911 triggers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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