Which red dot to buy?

[Newguy]

My old slow eyes are needing help and I'm at the point of going to red dot sights. I don't want to jump into an open gun--expense-wise--until I have a better feel for whether it's right for me. So, my first slow move is to try a red dot (never used one before). My choice is between a tube (Tasco PDP6), which is a LOT cheaper, or a Docter or JP Sight. If I decide to get into open, I don't want a throwaway sight or a red dot unit that I'll grow out of. I  don't want to be penny-wise and pound foolish, since I already have a long trail of stupid gun-related decisions behind me.

My question is whether to go with a tube red dot or a smaller Optima (JP) or Dockter sight. My concern with the tube is the possibility of tunnel vision which might end up slowing me down. I'm also not crazy about having to mount the tube on the frame (my slide to frame fit isn't all that tight) and would prefer a sight that fits into the dovetail. I'm open to any and all suggestions. BTW, I'm a low (and slow) C class shooter.

[RKooi]

If you are going to slide mount a dot sight, then I think you are limited to the Optima/Dokter/Firepoint style.  I have never seen a tube mounted to the slide.  In my opinion the frame mounted sight is a superior setup.  The most common complaint with the Optima is that the sight loses its zero.  Invariably this is caused by the sight being slammed back and forth as it rides on the slide.  If you like that style of sight, I believe several companies like EGW and Rescomp (CR Speed) offer a frame mount for it.  You may also want to consider the C-More (extremely popular among open shooters) and the OKO which is very similar to the C-More but usually a bit less expensive.

[Flexmoney]

I have been playing with an Optima that I had laying around.  Mine is on a mount, not riding the slide.  I have found that it is harder to find the dot than it is with a sight like the C-more.

[warpspeed]

I like the tube scopes, ADCO to  be exact.  Frame mounted on a Grams Eng mount.

[mcoliver]

Hi guys. I came across a relatively cheaper optic sight like the one pictured below (I think it's ADCO). Anybody have any experiences with these? How they hold up, etc.? Thanks.

[joshua]

I was at a gun show today and went to a table that has those sights, they cost $79 and I believe their website is "tacticalguns.com", I've checked it and the website is kind of sorry. They are based in AZ and the guy at the other side of the table said those sights have a lifetime warranty as long as you don't physically break the darn thing such as dropping/stomping on the ground or by other means including chemicals. Hmmmm... if that's the case then that's is the best darn warranty for an electronic sight. The ones they had on display had a round hud and a square one like what you posted except the dials were numbered up to 11. Your gun will need a weaver type mount and hopefully the slots spaced out just right for the sight because those screws don't slide front and back the sight. The frame of the sight were made of zytel (what the guy said) and the dots were bright enough, but the lens had too much glare specially the square lights on the ceiling made it worst. I tried to see if a glare blocker might work by placing my fingers around the module but the guy thought I was dumb cuz he said, "Yeah the light comes from that area of the sight" Well duh!... Anyway, they had other similar sight that were made of aluminum too, a lot heavier than the plastic, I mean zytel ones. If anyone decides to spend the 79 bucks plus shipping to check these out then please let us know how they are.

[PistolPete]

I use a C-more and the site is amazing. Because of the location of the dot it is very easy to find between shots. You can watch the dot lift as the gun fires and quickly returns. A shooting buddy has the Site Doctor site which is much smaller and a lot less work to install. It is much easier to lose the dot while shooting esp. when going fast. Both are good but my vote goes for the C-more.

I prefer this style of site over a tube site because target aquistion should be faster because you can see a lot more without looking thru the tube. JMO

[eerw]

I have been playing with an Optima that I had laying around.  Mine is on a mount, not riding the slide.  I have found that it is harder to find the dot than it is with a sight like the C-more.

Flex.

what problems are you having finding and tracking the dot..I was going to play with this...I got a J-point and having Ross Carter work up amount for me...your insight would be greatly appreciated..thanks

[Flexmoney]

eerw,

I had just read my post from December as I opened this thread. The only real experience that I have with the Optima is in dry-fire.

On a mount, you don't get the benefit of the optic being low in relation to the bore (like if the Optima was slide mounted). And, it is just harder to find the dot for me...the Optima has a much smaller screen for the dot to project upon.

Others here would be in a better position to answer your question.

[Chriss Grube]

The docter sight mounted on the slide is as easy to pick up as iron sights. It totally eliminates the learning curve for the "C-more shuffle" new dot shooters go through. If you get the Optima/j-point or the Docter go with a slide mount and if you can, get it milled into the slide. The Optima sucks as far as reliabilty not sure how much better the j point is. The Docters are the way to go for a slide mount. Nice thing is it is easy to shoot through tight ports w/o chopping wood. If you go with a frame mount the c-more is the only way to go.

[sfinney]

The docter sight mounted on the slide is as easy to pick up as iron sights. It totally eliminates the learning curve for the "C-more shuffle" new dot shooters go through.

I agree with Chriss - if you are used to Iron sights, mounting the Optima / JP/ Docter sights back on the slide in the bomar cut (or whatever) makes for the easiest transition from Limited to Open - C-mores take alot of getting used to, until your inidex is right on, and the dot is right there everytime. With the Optima, I never had to hunt for the dot. However, I destroyed 3 in less than a year. I now shoot a C-more, and have practiced enough where it seems natural now.

Also, if ease of learning is a goal, the tube scopes like the PDP3, Adco, etc give a better frame of reference (literally) to help find the dot as well, and can be found pretty cheap, usually.

I've tried them all. Try a few out, if able, and get what "feels" right to you. But I wouldn't recommend a C-more for a starting Open shooter unless you're willing to commit the time to learn it, or you will get very frustrated at first. You'll might actually shoot slower than your limited times at first.

[BrianH]

A lot of locals use the Hakko, because a local gunsmith is a dealer. Seem to hold up; a decent alternative to the C-More, I think.

http://www.hakko-japan.co.jp/optical/english/dot.htm

[rhino]

A lot of locals use the Hakko, because a local gunsmith is a dealer. Seem to hold up; a decent alternative to the C-More, I think.

http://www.hakko-japan.co.jp/optical/english/dot.htm

The Hakko is a really good sight. I wanted to use mine (with four reticle patterns) on my Bushmaster superlight, but it was too long to fit on the rail in front of the GG&G A2 flip-up sight. It works well on a Ruger 22/45, though.

[Liota]

Guys,

I like the C-More for my open gun. The dot comes visible every time the gun comes up. Didn't get that with the Optima a friend mounted on his open gun, nor on my husband's open rifle. Wakal replaced the Optima with a C-More type sight and all works easier with the rifle.

Here comes the big HOWEVER. I do like the Optima on my JP shotgun. It works really well for 3-gun. Can't hit squat with it in sporting clays, though. The looks on the faces of the shotgun club members was worth it, though.

Liota

[George]

Here is an image of the sight picture a JPoint melted into a Glock 17L gives you. It feels like shooting iron sights because the sight picture is so low and you look right down the slide. In fact, I left the old custom iron front sight on to aid in dot acquisition and to act as a backup should the dot ever fail. The sight picture that results is very good, and very fast. Dot acquisition is natural instead of learned. I use two CR-2016 batteries instead of the single CR-2032 that is standard on the Optima/JPoint. This increases the dot intensity to the point where this sight works really well in any lighting conditions I have encountered so far. The dot is a good bit washed out in the photo compared to the dot intensity my eye actually sees when I am shooting. It isn't as bright as a C-More on full, but with the battery change IMO it works just about as well for me.

I have been using the pictured JPoint on my open gun (Glock 17L in 9x21) for about 3 months now with a steady diet of 124 grainers at 165-170 PF. At a little over 3500 rounds so far the only time the sight gave me any trouble is when I figured out that the mount screws want a little loctite (blue) after each battery change or they will fling themselves about in time.

[Steve Anderson]

I have broken 2 Docters (1st and second gen.) on a Beretta shooting MINOR.

Both times they died during matches.

I'm a c-more man.

Dry fire for 3 days and you'll find the dot everytime. Don't neglect weak hand, it requires a little familiarization training.

SA

[rhino]

That's the best looking Glock I've seen!

[Chriss Grube]

Steve, the 3rd gen are pretty much bullet proof. The wiring on the 1st and 2nd gen would short out. They fixed the problem on the newer ones that came out about a year ago.

[George]

That's the best looking Glock I've seen!

Thanks Rhino,

I really appreciate the comment.

It's shootin' real well right now after a lot of development work. It's a bit beat up cosmetically from years of handling and holster wear, but it's now my primary competition pistol again (started with it in the late 80's then went to a souper), and I really like shootin' it. Nothing rides quite as low in your grip as a Glock frame. Great handling gun.

Regards,

[rhino]

I think the slide mounted dot lends it self well to the Glock design, both in terms of performance as well as (subjective) aesthetic appeal.

I'm glad you're shooting a 17L. I had to laugh at my first GSSF match back in 1997. One of my shooting buddies had a borrowed 17L for the compeititon division and the people at the registration table were aghast they he was planning to actually shoot it! They thought it was a collector's item that should be locked away to increase in value.

Q: Does the barrel porting help enough that you don't need an actualy compensator on the end as well?

[George]

Q:  Does the barrel porting help enough that you don't need an actualy compensator on the end as well?

Seems to work about as well as my .38 scooper with the old 2 scoop comp shooting a similar 124gr load. I haven't shot a compensated Glock in major PF so I have nothing else to compare it with. But it works well for me so I haven't wondered any further and just decided to settle down and learn to shoot the booger really well as it is.

Regards,

[bountyhunter]

For a tube sight, the Ultra-Dots are pretty decent for around $100 (have a lifetime warranty). I have a couple of those. The guys in our league with the "slide mounted" mini dots have had them fail. I would think the elctronics would not be able to take the hammering.