ErikW Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 All of a sudden, magazines are puking and dying on me. I've shot Limited 140mm STI .40 S&W magazines since 1999 with little trouble, and STI 140/170 .38 Super mags in Open for almost a couple years now. I have never had this problem occur until the middle of this year, and now it's happening frequently. The frustrating thing is it has happened with a wide variety of magazine components. The spring/follower is sticking, or locking up, in the tube. It seems to happen most often after firing 4-6 rounds from a 19 or 20 round Limited mag. It has also done this part-way into a Super big-stick, and while loading a 140mm Super. Here are all the combinations I've had this happen to: - STI 140-40 tube with brand B tuning, brand B follower, brand B spring, brand B basepad, 19 or 20 rounds of 180 gr (two occurrences) - STI 140-40 tube with brand V tuning, brand B follower, brand R spring, brand D basepad, 19 rounds of 180 gr - STI 140-38 tube with brand D tuning, brand B follower, brand B short spring, brand B basepad, 20 rounds of 115 gr (loading not shooting) - STI 170-38 tube with brand D tuning, STI old style follower, brand B long spring, brand B basepad, 26 rounds of 115 gr Heyyyy, twice I was shooting weak-hand when the Limited mag puked. Nah, must be a coincidence. Oh yeah, there were two different Limited guns. What the hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 VOODOO!!!! I swear it! I hate mags. They can be just plain ornery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A33435 Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Erik, this phenomenom with the magazines is pretty familiar to me. I am shooting standard division IPSC with a Glock 35. Coincidence? Whit me also it always happens after 4 -6 rounds can't figure out if it's the spring or the follower or both that's stuck. Beginning of this year i started with new highcap glock .40 magazine tubes, different brand of followers, different brand of (stronger than standard) springs and +2 magazine extensions from B-E Jonsson I only used new combinations in training When in a combination the mentioned malfunction showed i replaced or the spring or the follower. As i told can't really tell what was the reason but i do know that the replaced spring and follower would malfunction in an other tube also. This way i made 3 extended troublefree mags (standard 15 round mags never give trouble) At the moment i prepared 4 combinations again and want to have them trouble free for the new year. But rather than changing the combination i would want to work on the component to make a combination work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Erik, Could your rounds be getting directly side by side in the tube? I'm sure you know that they have to remain one slightly on top of the other. I have found that, over time and sometimes when new, that the tubes get swollen in the middle compared to the ends and will allow the rounds to get beside each other causing them to stick. Sometimes when shooting fast with a mag that is too wide in the middle, I can feel the rounds jump in the mag and I know its time to give 'em a squeeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 Singlestank, indeed, a wise old sage told me this problem occurs with too-wide tubes and/or +1 followers. So I replaced my widened tubes with lip-tuned-only tubes. A33435, wow, it happens with Glock mags too? And also after 4-6 rounds? Voodoo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Hemphill Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Erik, I had the same hassle with one mag all summer and it got godawful this fall. I had tried every follower and spring combo I could to no avail. I finally put an old arredondo basepad on and all my problems went away. It used to go four rounds, a little hesitation on feeding the fifth accompanied with a death rattle. I have since reconsidered what that one round really means to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted November 25, 2002 Author Share Posted November 25, 2002 Had another one crap out on me Saturday; I was worried about needing make-up shots for the 9 targets after the reload, so I reloaded to an all-Brand-B magazine with 20 rounds. Sure enough, exactly four rounds fed from the mag, it puked. The spring even stayed in the gun when I took the pad off. The follower stuck on the right and the spring tried to keep on riding up the left side. A coil was actually higher than the follower. The spring actually tried to make an N shape (viewed from behind) and got coils within coils. I went home and measured the outside of all my tubes with calipers. Most seemed to peak at .940" wide, a couple went to .945", and the Brand B tube went to .950". The wide area is right about where the follower sticks after 4 or 5 rounds. I put them in a vice and squeezed them into shape. (Unlike M16 magazines, I felt they wouldn't respond well to the Big Hammer treatment.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Load up most any doublestack mag and quickly flip the rounds out of it (like they're being stripped) and you'll notice, through the the 5 to 10 round zone, the next round pops up sluggishly. I've never heard a satisfactory explanation of why this happens, but it does. So the mag must be spring-powered to feed reliably through this area. The typical (pushed to the limit) 20 rd mag is borderline in spring-power, so that's where it will typically fail. And there are so many factors, especially in a .40, which determine feeding reliability, that if just about anything in the gun changes, it'll start bump-feeding, and eventually malfunction. For this reason I never compromised the mag spring. If I judged everything else in the gun (not the mag) to be perfect, then the mag would become a 19 rounder (so I could add more spring). Gun factors (not mag) that contribute to feeding problems, including but not limited to, (and in no particular order): Feedramp condition. (Tuned by trick hand-polishing technique found somewhere in this forum Often this will bring a "bump-feeding-for-no-particular-reason" gun back to life.) Overall length and bullet nose design. Recoil spring condition and weight. Mag lip condition. (Also buried it this forum.) Slide cycling distance - controlled by shok-buffs. Amount of and weight of Slide-Glide you've got 'er pumped full of. And of course check the excellent resource graciously compiled by this thread's starter, at: http://www.brianenos.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard...=42&topic=6 be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted December 9, 2002 Author Share Posted December 9, 2002 Sonofabjtch, it happened again! This time my #3 mag. It measured wide in the problem area so I guess it must have some kind of metal memory and sprung back after squeezing it a few weeks ago. Maybe it needs the Big Hammer Treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 "What makes magazine springs hang up?" ...maybe they think a telemarketer is calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer x Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 using jb weld, try extending the ridges on the left side of the mag tube down to the bottom of the tube...this will at least prevent a cartridge from getting side by side with the follower...learned this from arredondo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted December 11, 2002 Author Share Posted December 11, 2002 My rounds are hanging up well above the lips of inside ribs. I've also heard of dremeling a shallower angle to those edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I run stock STI followers in my mag's, ISMI recoil springs, they all measure .935 & I run a + 1 grams base pad. Have never had a problem in year's.. keep it simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Benny, Have you tried the Arrendondo mag springs? I really like them because the bottom coil has a square shape in the rear that keeps them from twisting in the mag as they are compressed. I've had really mixed results with the IMSI springs. About 3-4 out of 10 will sack/collapse in the top 3 coils very quickly. The good ones last a long time, but I just gave up because of all the hassle. The Arrendondos don't last as long as one of the good IMSI springs, but I've never had a bad one right out of the bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kline Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Wow Erik, that's wild! I use a couple STI tubes and a couple SVI tubes. Arrendondo followers and flat base pads (Limited), ISMI springs and have had no problems at all. I have 2 mags that have been tuned by Beven Grams that hold 20 with his base pad and I have shot them extensively with 20 rounds full and never had a jam yet out of them. He also trims the feed lips and tunes them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Erik, Are you still having troubles? Have you ever tried SVI mags? I've been using a set of about 6, tuned as described all over this forum, for many years, with 100% success. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted March 6, 2003 Author Share Posted March 6, 2003 I have hardly been shooting. Seem to have my Open mags running trouble-free. Never tried SV mags. I'm suspecting the followers and might just use the stock STI followers for only 18 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I hate to say this, may turn the devil loose. I use the same set up as Benny, IMSI springs & the old style sti followers. We gave up the max cap deal for mags that work every time. These springs seem to work forever, just run them until we feel them start to bump, then change them. Same set up for .40 and super, even the big stick. Just keep them clean & slick and don't over stuff them. I would rather start with 19 I can use than have 30 on the ground behind me. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 I shot Limited yesterday, going back to brand B springs with old-school STI followers. I had a spring compress into itself (second coil from the top going down into third coil), which stopped the follower one cartridge away from the lips, which popped the round up vertically, which caught between the chamber and breechface. Fortunately, it was an 18 round stage and I didn't need #19. I've got less than two months to get my Limited mags all sorted out for the May Month of Madness Matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 Update... My problems continued through the May month of madness matches. However, this weekend I seem to have found the solution: Wolff extra power .40/.45 STI/SV springs, 13.5 coils originally, cut to 11.5 coils. Surprise, surprise, surprise... Wolffs are what I started using in 1999. Things have come full circle. After a year of hell, I'm back to 19 reloadable rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snokid Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 I too had this simular problem, How I fixed it was to pack up my tubes and send them to Beven Grams and when I got them back they have yet to fail. 20 rounds no problem Dawson +1 pads Call Beven he's a great guy, he might even be able to help you without sending them to him... Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4444 Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Have you tried polishing the inside of your tubes??? A couple friends of mine swear by it,,,,I haven't had to yet. I'm shooting a Para and fortunately so far (knock on wood), it has been really reliable loading 20 with ISMI springs. I know the spring is collapsing on itself, but the darn things just plain run......we'll see. H4444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-44978 Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Me too, but now no more!!!!!!! Ok this may or may not apply, but heres the story anyhooooo........... I have been using sv mags with grams pads (pads only at this point) and after 9k rounds or so through my used 2011(built very well by Dirk Leach)i would get a mag in the middle of the stage, 5 or so rounds down, not feed .pull back on the slide and it goes into battery and away goes a sec. Meanwhile these base pads fit extremely tight to the mag body and over time i crack a few. I change over to Grams springs and followers with no luck , still intermittant feeding troubles (always in a match) I get a nice note with my replacement pads to check for pad to mag fit. I call Beven and ask exactly what to look for and he patiently explained that the pads should not be that tight. I sanded the edges of the bottom of my tubes until the pads went on the way he described. I'm just relieved at this point that Beven didn't blink at replacing the pads.AND THANKS AGAIN BEVEN WHEREVER YOU ARE With no clue as to when my next missfeed would happen i shot 15 or so local matches and several practice sessions WITH NO PROBLEMS! I also noticed that the mags now load easier than ever, even 20 rounds. Now about this Brain malfunction problem i'm having.................................................................................... ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mquitos Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I recently had that problem, mag choked after 4-6 rnds. I tried to change mag parts... springs, followers and basepads. Still they choked. It then occured to me that the problem wasn't with the mags, but the ammo. I checked the bullet setting, and realized that they were too long. So I reloaded ammo that was shorter by a millimeter or two. I havn't had the chocking problem ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Erik, I havn't seen (read) anyone say this but have you tried running a silicone cloth through your mag and on your follower? I shot .45 for most of my first few years and always laughed at the people who spent a lot of time worring mags, but....... Now I tear each mag down before a match and wash the tube with a bottle brush, clean the follower and the base pad. I then silicone the inside of the tube and the follower. I never have trouble if I go through this 'dance'. Nate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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