Do You Call A's Or Just Acceptable?

[IronEqualizer]

When you call your shots from target to target are you thinking A,A...A,C...A,A or do you only really think about any that are Deltas or Mikes and the rest just register as being acceptable? I can somewhat call my shots as being acceptable or Mikes, Deltas but find it difficult to call A,A...A,C...C,C at speed. I am thinking maybe because if it is a Mike or Delta I saw that the sights were way misaligned when the shot broke but I am not able to call shots that are not a perfect sight picture. Now that I think about it more I can call 2 Alplas but when the sights start not being perfectly aligned I can pretty much tell the shot hit the AC area but am not sure exactly where. Is this where I need to start shooting some groups with the sights purposely misaligned?

[George]

I'm not able to say it was an A with certainty, I can only say it was acceptable. Where I am at with my shooting, acceptable means I am darned sure it was not a D and I am certain it wasn't a mike. No way I know if it really was an A versus a close C at my level of skill (good B, should be an average A, but don't shoot enough classifiers).

If I get a funny feeling near a no-shoot, I will usually take the time to pick up a purposefully aimed shot. I don't want to accept the double-dip the NS AND the mike means and am willing to toss a decent chunk of time at it in return for insurance when I feel the dealer might have the blackjack.

I've got the seeing thing going kinda' OK, but I sure don't have the certainty thing firing on all cylinders yet.

[dirtypool40]

Just one guy's opinion, but on open targets train not to accept any site picture that you don't believe is an "A". You get a few C's and the occaisional "what the #$%4" Delta, but if you learn what an "A" look slike at the different ranges it saves teh "did I get 'em all" walk after you unload and show clear.

If you think you pulled th etrigger off alpha, shoot another one. Your speed ego will hate it and you'll learn to slow down to get the "A" the first tiem out.

just my two cents...

[davidball]

Just one guy's opinion, but on open targets train not to accept any site picture that you don't believe is an "A". You get a few C's and the occaisional "what the #$%4" Delta, but if you learn what an "A" look slike at the different ranges it saves teh "did I get 'em all" walk after you unload and show clear.

If you think you pulled th etrigger off alpha, shoot another one. Your speed ego will hate it and you'll learn to slow down to get the "A" the first tiem out.

just my two cents...

"speed ego" . . . very nice . . . very descriptive.

[Flexmoney]

Is this where I need to start shooting some groups with the sights purposely misaligned?

You should probably try that pretty soon.

Also, and maybe before you do, you should tape off your target in a couple of different ways. Then, shoot the target from a challenging distance (which will vary, depending on your skill level). You should fire a shot, then "call" where it hit by the feedback you got when you fired it. Write this "call" down on a piece of paper back at the firing line (draw a diagram of your target on the paper). Then, compare your recorded call on paper with the actual hole in the target.

I like taping off the target, because it gives me more reference points. Here are two ways, I'm sure there are more:

1. Make cross hairs on the target, tape it down the center from top to bottom, then tape it from left to right...along the center of the Alpha zone (not the center of brown).

2. Tape off just the Alpha box.

I just use plain old masking tape.

[XRe]

Also, and maybe before you do, you should tape off your target in a couple of different ways. Then, shoot the target from a challenging distance (which will vary, depending on your skill level). You should fire a shot, then "call" where it hit by the feedback you got when you fired it. Write this "call" down on a piece of paper back at the firing line (draw a diagram of your target on the paper). Then, compare your recorded call on paper with the actual hole in the target.

I like this drill a lot. I usually do it from a draw (using a start beep), but ignore time - that keeps me from standing there and shooting a group, and gets me more focused on finding the sight picture, etc. I like your idea on taping the target off, Flex

One thing I'll add is that you should do this with *both* targets. The "Classic" target has its A-zone in a different spot, and has different dimensions. If you're not used to that, you might be calling things in wierd spots (I was surprised on a couple of targets at the Nationals at when things ended up in the D - and I've shot a decent amount on Classics, so... obviously I need more ).

[IronEqualizer]

Flex I think I read about doing that in either Brian's or Saul's book not sure which one and have not tried it. Until I got to this point in my shooting it really did not make sense to me why to do that but now it does. It's weird how the more you learn the more you learn to apply what you already know. I think that's what I mean.

[konkapot]

+1 on dirtypools response.

FY42385

[Nik Habicht]

I spent almost no time practicing before the Tulsa Nats, but what I managed to fit in was almost all shot on Targets that had hard cover tape outlinging the A box. I practiced out to 20-25 yards ---- worked like a charm. First time ever I shot a Nats with only two mikes (a popper I didn't even hit, and a static that I rushed off of to get to a drop turner) 6 Ds and a seemingly high 72 Cs. 31 Charlies and 4 Deltas were shot on classic targets ---- a type I'll need some practice on in the near future. The lack of Deltas impressed me most of all....

[shred]

You should have been in the pool. James stole all our lunch money and a good chunk of our beer money with something like 14 Ds, Ms and NSs total.

[Nik Habicht]

You should have been in the pool. James stole all our lunch money and a good chunk of our beer money with something like 14 Ds, Ms and NSs total.

Who knew? Certainly not me based on prior experiences. Gambling on anything went out the window when my job ended.....

[benos]

Keeping the principle simple helps achieve the goal: Know right where the bullet will hit the target at the instant the shot fired. That's your most important job as a shooter.

When the shot fires, if you really saw what you needed to see, at light speed - your brain, based on your intention to shoot the A zone - calculates and sets in motion any action necessary, without any effort on your part. (Make up shot or no make up shot.)

When you've trained correctly and long enough for that to "happen," it's a super cool thing to experience. It makes all the hard work worth it.

be

[Nik Habicht]

Keeping the principle simple helps achieve the goal: Know right where the bullet will hit the target at the instant the shot fired. That's your most important job as a shooter.

When the shot fires, if you really saw what you needed to see, at light speed - your brain, based on your intention to shoot the A zone - calculates and sets in motion any action necessary, without any effort on your part. (Make up shot or no make up shot.)

When you've trained correctly and long enough for that to "happen," it's a super cool thing to experience. It makes all the hard work worth it.

be

While I'd still prefer to see what I need to see every time I pull the trigger, I love that I can recognize most of the time, that I didn't see what I needed to see, in order to take an immediate make-up shot.....

Most of the time the target has three hits, often three As, telling me that I just stop paying attention for a split second sometimes.....

Practicing with a taped off A-zone, has made it easier to find the exact spot on the target I want to shoot.......

[benos]

Do You Call A's Or Just Acceptable?

Call every shot.

Whether or not you do anything about the call is a decision made upon the calling of the shot.

be

[Bird_Dog0347]

Calling the shot is something I am new to, as I have only been shooting USPSA for a few months and IDPA for a little over a year. I have just started to learn to call the shot, but I screwed it up at the last match I shot.

We were shooting a stage with 8 targets, and 8 no shoots that got farther away from left (close) to right (far) and each target had a no shoot covering at least part of it. Far targets were at about 15-18 yards. You had to start at surrender and then fire one to each, mandatory reload, and one more to each. The sun was behind me, and I was under the awning on the firing line so the far targets were in the shadows making it hard to see any hits. I was running a pretty good run, calling my shots and on the 5th or 6th target, I called a Mike. The stage was limited, but I have been told that it is better to make up a mike and take the procedural on a limited stage, so long as you get an Alpha. I made up the shot on the way back, got AC, and took the procedural. Unfortunately, I also got a Bravo and then got penalized for the extra shot, AND the extra hit on the target that I did not need anyways.

How do you avoid mistakes like that? I truly thought I had a mike, and I even called it high-right. I glanced at the target during my reload and could not see a hit so I decided the penalty was worth it as long as I got the hit. It was a frustrating experience to say the least.

[Flexmoney]

You have to work on calling the shots by reading the sights. Never look for holes in the target, nor wait to hear the steel ring.

In live fire practice, draw a representation/diagram of your target on a piece of paper that you keep with you back at the firing line. Move the target back far enough that you are a bit challenged. After each shot, record on the diagram where you think the shot should have hit by what you saw with the sight. Don't cheat yourself by looking for holes in the target (put a black t-shirt on the target if you have to hide the holes from yourself).

Only do a few shots at a time. Then take you piece of paper with your target diagram with you when you paste the target. Mark on your diagram where the bullets actually hit...you might use a different colored pen to mark the actual hits so you can compare them to your "calls". Or, use X's and O's to differentiate.

I think precision rifle shooters have been doing this for years? (I think that is where I fist got the idea.)

Saul Kirsch covers this well in one of his books (which you can get from Brian's store or AndersonShooting.com).

[kruger]

How precise are the calls?

When you mark the shot on the diagram before looking at the target, how far, on average, is the marked point of impact from the actual point of impact? Several inches? Fractions of an inch?

Respectfully,

Mark Kruger

[Flatland Shooter]

Bird__Dog,

"The stage was limited, but I have been told that it is better to make up a mike and take the procedural on a limited stage, so long as you get an Alpha. I made up the shot on the way back, got AC, and took the procedural. Unfortunately, I also got a Bravo and then got penalized for the extra shot, AND the extra hit on the target that I did not need anyways."

You may want to visit with an experienced shooter about the different courses of fire. Your course of fire was "limited" (USPSA's Virginia Count) where you are allowed to fire only a set number of rounds for a set number of hits per target. Since penalties are -10 while an "A" hit is only +5, you never make up a miss on a Virginia Count stage. At best you hit an "A" for a net of -5 points in addition to a little more time on the clock.

As a new shooter, be sure to listen closely to the course walk through and don't be afraid to ask questions.

Bill

Edited November 2, 2006 by Flatland Shooter

[benos]

How precise are the calls?

When you mark the shot on the diagram before looking at the target, how far, on average, is the marked point of impact from the actual point of impact? Several inches? Fractions of an inch?

Respectfully,

Mark Kruger

Mark,

Ask, how precise can you call? Aspire to the ultimate: call to within a bullet width. Then you'll always be aspiring to improve, and, that can't but help when you're calling under pressure.

Once, during an unusually lucid 25 yd, 10 shot, slow-fire Bullseye string - I called all ten 10's as to their precise location within the 10 ring. (I looked through a spotting scope after each shot.) So I can say for sure that, under optimum conditions, that level of calling is possible.

After 20 years of competitive shooting, summing up the most important thing I learned: For every shot you fire, call the shot and compare the shot to your call - that's the key to rapid improvement.

be

[kruger]

Mark,

Ask, how precise can you call?

Okay, how precise can you call? Well, you did say...

Once, during an unusually lucid 25 yd, 10 shot, slow-fire Bullseye string - I called all ten 10's as to their precise location within the 10 ring. (I looked through a spotting scope after each shot.) So I can say for sure that, under optimum conditions, that level of calling is possible.

If fractions of inch are possible under ideal conditions, what is the typical precision under match conditions? Does the degree of precision change with the difficulty of the target?

Respectfully,

Mark Kruger

[Loves2Shoot]

Generally and couple inches is good for me.

[wide45]

Precision in calling reflects precision in sight refinement.

[benos]

If fractions of inch are possible under ideal conditions, what is the typical precision under match conditions? Does the degree of precision change with the difficulty of the target?

Respectfully,

Mark Kruger

For me, how I approach it is - train to shoot and call with uncanny precision. Then in an IPSC match, now your job is to know, at the instant the shot fires - if it hit the target or not. (A-box, steel target, or whatever you've decided each target "is.") So the better you've trained yourself to shoot and call, the easier it will be for you to do that.

be

[kellyn]

Just a personal observation from rifle shooting. I was asked at the NC FOP 3 Gun, how can you shoot a rifle so fast after shooting a stage in which the shooter engaged 24 reactive targets while prone.

The answer is really based on shot calls. I KNOW the instant the shot goes off and even before the bullet hits, whether I had a hit or not. A magnified scope gives nearly instant feedback as well. But I'm already starting to transition to the next target based on shot calls, not RO confirmation or even target reaction (at least when I'm shooting my best). I listen for the RO but visually I'm off the the next one.

One of the ROs said I can't believe you can shoot faster than I can call your hits. But I actually think on a stage like that it is harder to RO it than it is to shoot it. The RO has to wait for the target to react, process the info and then call a hit. By then I may already be shooting at the next target since I knew it was a hit at the trigger break.

It's when I don't call a shot that I get screwed. I had 2 complete misses at the first JP Rocky Mtn. 3 Gun Match and they were at the easiest target (a full sized IPSC target at about 3 yards!!) in the whole match. Why? Because I was looking at the next target and just threw 2 rounds at the easy target. No shot calling at all. Rob told me that he has a lot more misses on easy targets that hard ones. Why? Failing to call shots. We all buckle down on those hard shots but sometimes just toss bullets at the easy ones, leading to misses.

[shred]

Close, wide open targets are where the better shooters miss-- they're so busy trying to get to the next target that they don't give each shot the call it deserves. BTDT.

Then in an IPSC match, now your job is to know, at the instant the shot fires - if it hit the "target" or not.

be

This is perfect. Pick a value of "target" that makes sense for any given shot and your abilities, and you're golden.