Trying To Figure Out What Powder To Start With. .45 And 9mm

[chunger]

Hello,

I'm very new to reloading. . . Dillon 550 is in the mail, and I'm not in a huge hurry because I have plenty of factory ammo sitting around and plenty more dry-firing things to work out before hitting the range

But, I would like to stock up on some reloading materials so I can start off on a good foot. Getting powder/primers in my area (San Francisco Area) locally appears to be wildly un-economical. . . as I gather from forum responses. Well, probably not as bad as getting housing, but I digress. Once I start reloading and my technique/quality proves reliable, I'd like to just use one load for my guns. . . practice, competition, self defense. This way, I can start off simple hopefully with an accurate, middle of the road, clean burning, safe margin over power factor load.

I've shot mostly Wally World White box up until now, and well. . .. Wally World has decided conveniently not to sell ammo anymore in my area and taken it all off the shelves. This was one of the last straws that pushed me to get a reloader. I have been saving my Winchester brass and have a little bit to start out with. I figure I might as well shoot JHP and take advantage of certain savings to up my quality of ammo.

My gun is a run of the mill 5" 1911 w/ Kart barrel. It seems from reading postings in the load data section of this forum I really can't be too far off to buy:

Zero 230 grn JHP

Hogdon Clays

Federal or Winchester primer

The 9mm is where I'm a bit more confused when searching the postings here. . . there doesn't seem to be a strong gravitation towards a particular powder/bullet combination. . . something that recoils nicely and gives ball-park defensive velocity. I'd like not to have to use VV powders due to cost. My wife's main gun is a 5" 9mm 1911 and she also has a 3" XD9. She thought it was cute. I have not problems buying a different powder for the 9mm.. . so I'm thinking:

Zero 125 grn JHP

??? powder

Federal or Winchester primer

I'm going to buy a loading manual and plan on following it. . . mabe I'll have to make a different load for the XD and the 1911. I don't know. But I'd like to place an order with Powder Valley and streamline the cost a bit (recover 550 cost) so I'd like to get a powder that is pretty much known to work well and buy a fair amount of it from the start. Mabe one that leaves a bit of room for experimenting later. . . 147 grn, etc.

[kevin c]

Do you shoot at Richmond? You can get powder and primers at the range office next to the 25 yard line . Depending on how much you buy, the price is not bad compared to having to pay shipping/hazmat with the catalog/online vendors. For bullets and brass, talk to the folks at the action pistol range on the next time members get together to buy a ton (literally) of bullets at once to get the best prices. Brass you can order yourself on line.

If you really want one multipurpose load for each caliber, than you can get good advice from published load manuals on the equivalent of factory ammo. Most of what you'll find here on the forums are recipes for loads tailored for the specific needs of the shooter and the type of competition the ammo is for, not exactly what you want at this point.

Ask for me (I'm the only Kevin out there on the action range), and I can lend you some loadbooks (I'll be there saturday and sunday - pm me and I'll bring the info).

Kevin C.

ETA: I can also let you try some of the more popular powders, if you want to try such loads, but don't want to buy a pound of each.

Edited October 13, 2006 by kevin c

[ChuckS]

Chunger,

I know a lot of people use N320 in 9mm with a 124/125 gr bullet for USPSA production loads. I have used N320 in a .45 for quite a while also. You stated that Vit i$ too expensive. I have seen that people flop between N320 and Titegroup, where TG is a bit faster burn. TG has load data for both rounds so you should be good to go.

Later,

Chuck

[chunger]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the tips. . . I live very close to Richmond Rod and Gun Club, and yes, that's where I go to shoot on Sat. for the IPSC practice, but I don't go very often yet.

I'll definitely stop by the office to ask about primers and powders. That would probably be easier than finding a "hazmat buddy" and paying shipping from Powder Valley. Plus, I can buy smaller quantity to test a little before committing to the "motherload" especially if the prices are decent.

Please let me know next time there's a truckload of bullets coming in. . . I'd like to get in on that action. . . or if you know anyone who is willing sell off 1000 or so w/ appropriate markup of course to help me get started.

From what I did read here, it seemed Titegroup and Clays would cover me. From the little information Hogdon has on their website, Titegroup looked like it's good to go on the 9mm. Clays looked like the margins were a bit slimmer and pressures can get a bit high on 9mm particularly for a beginner who's QC has not been established. Seems if I load to appropriate pressure, both powders should burn clean and fit my needs for the 2 calibers I'm concerned with. I'll move forward accordingly

-'Chung

Edited October 13, 2006 by chunger

[uscbigdawg]

Clays is great powder for the two calibers. It's cheap to load and is relatively easy to get affordably. Get with Kevin. He'll take care of you.

Rich

[21 shooter]

I have been using WSF for 9mm with 147 gr. lead bullets.

[19852]

I use the zero 125 also. I have been going with 4.0 gr. Titegroup. Gets just over 1000fps last I checked my gun.

[sargenv]

I too will be there this weekend.. Sat and Sun.. I'll be easy to spot.. I'll be one of the few Revo shooters on the range both days..

Vince

[kevin c]

We'll see ya out there, Chung.

Remember that the loads here are designed for competition, and as such tend to have less kinetic energy (less velocity, given the same weight of bullet) than rounds designed for serious encounters. You might have to increase the powder charge from the recommendations here to get something closer to factory ammo. Clays, for instance, at reasonable pressures, probably wont make 1200 fps in 9mm unless you use a light bullet, and maybe not even then. I don't know 45 acp and Clays, and ditto Titegroup (though I am experimenting with TG as a Production load).

OBTW, I've heard quite a few folks, including well respected gunwriters with knowlege of liability issues, advise against handloads in a self defense sidearm. If you want to practice with a handloaded ballistic equivalent, fine, but it might be better to stoke your bedside gun with the real thing - factory premium loads like HydroShok or some such.

Kevin

Edited October 14, 2006 by kevin c

[Downrange58]

Do you shoot at Richmond? You can get powder and primers at the range office next to the 25 yard line . Depending on how much you buy, the price is not bad compared to having to pay shipping/hazmat with the catalog/online vendors. For bullets and brass, talk to the folks at the action pistol range on the next time members get together to buy a ton (literally) of bullets at once to get the best prices. Brass you can order yourself on line.

If you really want one multipurpose load for each caliber, than you can get good advice from published load manuals on the equivalent of factory ammo. Most of what you'll find here on the forums are recipes for loads tailored for the specific needs of the shooter and the type of competition the ammo is for, not exactly what you want at this point.

Ask for me (I'm the only Kevin out there on the action range), and I can lend you some loadbooks (I'll be there saturday and sunday - pm me and I'll bring the info).

Kevin C.

ETA: I can also let you try some of the more popular powders, if you want to try such loads, but don't want to buy a pound of each.

Kevin, are you the G35 shooter I met in Richmond about 3 months ago? My son and I were down there and we were squaded with a Kevin that was very nice to us and let us shoot his g35 when the match ended. Happy New Year either way! Kent

[Downrange58]

I too will be there this weekend.. Sat and Sun.. I'll be easy to spot.. I'll be one of the few Revo shooters on the range both days..

Vince

Sargenv,

I shot at one of your matches this last fall and had a great time! I am having the hardest time tracking .45 N320 Load Data for my MG 200gr fmj flp load for my G21. Everyone says search and I have been for 2 weeks now and there isn't much on BE or the rest of the web. Happy New Year!

PS. Can we just show up for plate practice on the scheduled Saturday?

Kent

[G-ManBart]

I am having the hardest time tracking .45 N320 Load Data for my MG 200gr fmj flp load for my G21. Everyone says search and I have been for 2 weeks now and there isn't much on BE or the rest of the web.

VV lists N320 data for 200gr FMJs Max of 5.4gr at 1.240". They also list as high as 5.2gr for a 230gr FMJ at 1.260". If you start below those numbers (say 5.0gr) and work up, you should be fine. R,

[Downrange58]

I am having the hardest time tracking .45 N320 Load Data for my MG 200gr fmj flp load for my G21. Everyone says search and I have been for 2 weeks now and there isn't much on BE or the rest of the web.

VV lists N320 data for 200gr FMJs Max of 5.4gr at 1.240". They also list as high as 5.2gr for a 230gr FMJ at 1.260". If you start below those numbers (say 5.0gr) and work up, you should be fine. R,

G-ManBart, thank you for the reply! I shoot production with a G21 and I am trying to get down to an efficient minor load of say 140PF. 4.6gr of N320 wouldn't run the gun with a #15 recoil spring. I have a #13 on the way, but I suspect I should just move up to 5.0gr and run it through a chrono with the #15,#17 and #18's. Not to blow smoke gman, but you are a well respected poster and I am glad you took the time to answer! Happy New Year! Kent

[GOF]

HP-38/Win 231 is a powder that will make quality target loads for 9mm & 45 ACP. Clays is also very good. As for loading your own self defense loads... as advised in a previous post... it is not a good idea. Problems can arise in court. Massad Ayoob is a certified courtroom expert in this area and it might be worth your time to Google him, and read his writings on the subject. I, personally, would never carry handloads for SD... I would use any load that is approved for use by a respected LE agency, especially one in your area. In that case, if an overzealous prosecutor wants to bring up the subject of the loads you used, he has to, basically tar & feather local LE. There are a lot of issues that can arise in a SD shooting, but if you are using the same loads as a local LE agency is, your ammo won't be among those issues. Check Mas Ayoob on this.... he has a lot of actual in court experience on this issue.

GOF

[GrumpyOne]

And remember, this forum is really not the place for discussions about SD ammo.....

[kevin c]

Kevin, are you the G35 shooter I met in Richmond about 3 months ago?...

Yep, I'm one of the bad pennies that keeps on showing up.

HNY, to you and your family as well, and I'll see you on the range.

Kevin

[TonyT]

In 9mm I use WSF with either 124 or 147 gr. jacketed bullets. In 45ACP I prefer a faster powder and use either WST or American Select. You might also try the old universal pistol powder, Bullseye.

[McAllyn]

I'm another vote in favor of VV N320. I use it for 9MM, 40, and 45. It is more expensive than other powders, but it meters great, is temperature stable, and ultra-clean/smoke-free.

Mac

Edit:

All bullets are Zeros

9MM 125JHP

40 180JHP

45 230JHP

Edited January 3, 2011 by McAllyn

[Downrange58]

Kevin, are you the G35 shooter I met in Richmond about 3 months ago?...

Yep, I'm one of the bad pennies that keeps on showing up.

HNY, to you and your family as well, and I'll see you on the range.

Kevin

I hope to see you soon Kevin and thanks for taking such good care of my son Alec and I...Kent

[Downrange58]

I am having the hardest time tracking .45 N320 Load Data for my MG 200gr fmj flp load for my G21. Everyone says search and I have been for 2 weeks now and there isn't much on BE or the rest of the web.

VV lists N320 data for 200gr FMJs Max of 5.4gr at 1.240". They also list as high as 5.2gr for a 230gr FMJ at 1.260". If you start below those numbers (say 5.0gr) and work up, you should be fine. R,

Thank you G-ManBart! I loaded up some 4.9 and 5.0 loads and based upon another G21 shooter on the forum that shoots a G21 I loaded them at 1.20 OAL. I am hoping to chrono them later this week. My original loads were 1.35... If I understood him correctly, he liked the shorter OAL and how it worked his G21 slide. Thanks for taking the time to answer! Kent

[Downrange58]

I'm another vote in favor of VV N320. I use it for 9MM, 40, and 45. It is more expensive than other powders, but it meters great, is temperature stable, and ultra-clean/smoke-free.

Mac

Edit:

All bullets are Zeros

9MM 125JHP

40 180JHP

45 230JHP

Thank you Mac! Would you be willing to send me recipes for the .40 and .45? I will probably end up with both of those bullets in my guns soon. Happy New Year!

[McAllyn]

Sent you a PM with some info.

Mac

[Poppa Bear]

Three powders that should work for you if you plan to shoot both 9mm and .45 are WSF,HS-6,and True Blue. They are not real fast nor are they real slow. They meter well, fill the case enough to make a double charge easy to notice. The problem with trying to load for both using the same powder is that .45 likes a faster powder than 9mm does, and it is virtually impossible to find the optimal load configuration using the same powder. Don't get me wrong, it is easy to find a powder that functions decently in both. It is just that that powder will not be the best for both cartridges.

I use True Blue to load my 9's and .40's, and WST for my .45 loads. When the 4 lbs of True Blue that I have left starts to get down there I will likely experiment with some other powders. I will eventually find a good powder just for 9mm, have a second powder just for .40's and will likely stick with WST for my .45 loads. I can do this easily because I have separate heads for all three calibers complete with powder measures so I do not have to worry about emptying the hoppers when I change cartridges.

A good chronograph can really come in handy as you experiment with loads and powders. You might find that powder A, with primer B, and bullet C with an OAL of 1.xxx works great in your .45, while powder A with primer B does not care what what the bullet is or what the OAL is for your 9mm. It just will not shoot accurately until you start to push it too max pressures.

Experiment with OAL. My .45 with black bullets has a max OAL of 1.210. Longer than that and the bullet hits the rifling. When loaded with FMJ I can load out to 1.275. Because the Moly bullets are shorter I can get the same velocity with a smaller charge, than other shooters who are able to load out to say 1.265 OAL on their Moly bullets.

[Erik S.]

And remember, this forum is really not the place for discussions about SD ammo.....

Well, maybe not, but better to condense than clutter the forums.

Back on track, I would use Clays for both and just BUY factory SD ammo. Shooting someone with reloads doesn't look good in court. If you shoot through someone and damage property or someone else (aside from the fact that the shot probably shouldn't have been taken if there was a risk of hitting someone else), you don't want the BG's lawers to have your reloads to blame. You won't shoot many of that factory stuff anyway if it's for carry/SD.

That will leave you 100% more options open for just plinking and competition. Clays will serve you well there and you'll only have to buy 1 bullet type, too. SD bullets are EXPENSIVE!!!

FWIW....i hope this doesn't start flame wars.

[ima45dv8]

And remember, this forum is really not the place for discussions about SD ammo.....

Well, maybe not, but better to condense than clutter the forums.

Actually, your best bet is to altogether drop the subject of SD ammo and shooting people from discussions on this forum.

(direct Moderator-hint )

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