This Rule Makes No Sense To Me!

[FTDR]

Now you know how i feel. I had just bought a new Sig P226ST, just for idpa. The day after i picked it up, Bill Wilson decided we needed a weight restriction on SSP, never needed one before in all the years of idpa, but we need one now. Now my brand new, $1000.00 Sig is to heavy for SSP.....

That's the problem...you run things like a dictatorship, and you make critics. People don't like arbitrary.

FTDR - Would you really need a 50 ounce gun to handle 125pf loads? Try a lighter gun, I think you'll like it. Hell, I don't like 40+ ouce limited guns when I shoot major pf. My current load makes around 174pf and my gun weighs 36 ouces. But I digress...

Bill, listen to your shooters.

i was being facetious, you know if there was no weight limit, there would be some gamers trying there luck with a heavier than common sense would allow pistol, i myself have no problem with the current limits, and all of my guns are under anyway

[Fireant]

Hey, if this is the only rule that doesn't make sense to you, suck it up and drive on. That puts you ahead of the rest of us

[uscbigdawg]

Hey, if this is the only rule that doesn't make sense to you, suck it up and drive on. That puts you ahead of the rest of us

That's pretty good. I like that answer.....for now.

Rich

[Bigbadaboom]

I've never shot IDPA but I did watch a match once.

I have a good friend that is trying to get me to shoot it but I'm having a hard time bringing myself around to it and here's why;

My carry gun is a H&K USP compact but I can't shoot it in IDPA because I've given it a custom "Scotts Grip" permanent sand grip and the rules say that only grip tape is allowed. My other carry gun is an SA 1911 but it has a tungsten guide rod and weighs 46 oz.'s so it's not legal. These are the guns that I carry every second that I'm away from home. IDPA is great because it gets people out shooting and it's all about making guns go "BANG" but don't try pulling any BS about it being "Real World" carry friendly because I'm presently building a 9mm 1911 ESP gun just to get started shooting the sport.

Edited October 11, 2006 by Bigbadaboom

[dcloudy777]

Actually Ken, it sounds alot like the real world... which I thought IDPA was supposed to emulate. Nobody has ever told me my real world, everyday carry gear was too "gamey"

for the street.

And by the way, USPSA with a vest is better, IMHO, than close-range bullseye with three targets, which is what over-choreographed IDPA seems to be becoming.

But hell, they're all just games, and they all fling lead, so I'm in. Shoot well and stay safe.

DanO

[freeidaho]

I've never shot IDPA but I did watch a match once.

I have a good friend that is trying to get me to shoot it but I'm having a hard time bringing myself around to it and here's why;

My carry gun is a H&K USP compact but I can't shoot it in IDPA because I've given it a custom "Scotts Grip" permanent sand grip and the rules say that only grip tape is allowed. My other carry gun is an SA 1911 but it has a tungsten guide rod and weighs 46 oz.'s so it's not legal. These are the guns that I carry every second that I'm away from home. IDPA is great because it gets people out shooting and it's all about making guns go "BANG" but don't try pulling any BS about it being "Real World" carry friendly because I'm presently building a 9mm 1911 ESP gun just to get started shooting the sport.

Dan,

Isn't the H&K allowed in ESP?

Would a 2 minute change of guide rod, fix your 1911?

Ken Reed

Edited October 12, 2006 by freeidaho

[Jim Watson]

Does a local club MD even CARE what your (gun) butt is covered with or what your other gun weighs? I think not. If you go in without a chip on your shoulder, you can have a good time. Worry about the minutae when you go to a sanctioned shoot.

[freeidaho]

Actually Ken, it sounds alot like the real world... which I thought IDPA was supposed to emulate. Nobody has ever told me my real world, everyday carry gear was too "gamey"

for the street.

And by the way, USPSA with a vest is better, IMHO, than close-range bullseye with three targets, which is what over-choreographed IDPA seems to be becoming.

But hell, they're all just games, and they all fling lead, so I'm in. Shoot well and stay safe.

DanO

Dan, and everyone;

I'm truely sorry you guys have such issues with IDPA or your local club, or whatever your problems tend to be. I know lots of clubs that don't really have any issues, including my club here in Idaho. Here in Podunk, about half the shooters cross over between games, and we truely don't have any of the problems y'all do.

Since some clubs do seem to have lots of reported issues, and shooters that either love to be miserable, or love to complain, or something, and some clubs don't, yet they are using the same rulebook, I wonder what the problems actually are.

I don't have the answers, that is for sure..... and typing on the internet has rarely made things better.

Have a good night!

Ken Reed

[CSEMARTIN]

Here in Podunk, about half the shooters cross over between games, and we truely don't have any of the problems y'all do.

Ken Reed

I have noticed a difference in attitude between states.

[gunfighter]

Well, i gotta say,,,,,, when i bought my Sig 226st, there was not a weight restriction on SSP. I sure as hell never heard about an up and coming rule change regarding adding a weight limit on SSP, or other wise i would have looked at other options. I bought the 226st, not because of the heavier weight, but #1 i have shot a 226 for about 20 yrs, and i wanted a new one. And #2, i thought, with the all stainless gun, i would have a beater that would last, not only my lifetime, but my sons when i hand the guns down to him. It totally had nothing to do with the weight, as a matter of fact, after i've used it, i dont really care for the heavier weight, which is why i just purchased a new P228. It's just at the time, i wasnt sure i could afford another gun purchase and i thought i would be stuck shooting my ST in ESP. I prefer shooting SSP, thats just me.

[Bigbadaboom]

Dan,

Isn't the H&K allowed in ESP?

Yes, the USP compact is allowed but the textured grip the I've applied to it is not in SSP. Why would I shoot it in ESP against 43 oz. 9mm 1911's? I'ld be at a huge disadvantage. Besides, I don't download my real world mags to 10 rounds.

Would a 2 minute change of guide rod, fix your 1911?

Ken Reed

No, just changing the guide rod will not bring the weight down enough. Besides, why would I want to change the configuration of the guns that I will be carrying if, God forbid, I actually have to use them in a real world situation in order to shoot a sport that claims to represent the ability to practice real world defensive shooting situations?

If I can't shoot my real world guns then it is NOT a real world situation and I will go into it as I do USPSA, as a game which allows me to shoot, and that's all. I will build a 43 oz. 9mm 1911 ESP gun, work up a mouse fart 9mm load, use a holster and mag pouches that are within the rules but still as fast as possible and play the "Game". I'll still strap on my USP or .45 when I leave the range and I'll still work in my 1.5-2 hours a week at my private range practicing with my real world carry guns and gear.

Edited October 12, 2006 by Bigbadaboom

[Mayonaise]

Most people who carry full size 1911's as work guns don't use FLGR's. FWIW.

[Greg Jones]

Most people who carry full size 1911's as work guns don't use FLGR's. FWIW.

Agree. Of those that do carry with a FLGR, most don't use one made of tungsten. Much more brittle and subject to failure than a common steel guide rod.

[Crusher]

Most people who carry full size 1911's as work guns don't use FLGR's. FWIW

Oh, my Please no-one tell my 1911/2011 carry guns they should not wear such devices. They like to keep up with their racing counterparts in the safe and so far have done a fantastic job at it.

Of the two groups (racers and workers) the workers are ahead. Over the last 10 years the racer group had 1 choke and puke stoppage and the workers are at 100%.

In all fairness none run tungston just FL steel and a few with recoil masters.

[John K]

BBB,

The ten round mag restriction is in place because of places like wherre i live, California, where hi caps are not legal. It keeps competitors on a level playing field.

If you want to shoot IDPA, come to the match. i am sure that the local MD will allow you to shoot with you textured grip. You would not have any trouble by anyone until you shoot a state match.

I am with Ken on this issue.

[19852]

I am new to the forum but I have been shooting IDPA for at least 8 years. Last year I went to Nationals and had the time of my life. I love the competition! The holster changes caused me to worry some but everything was alright. A line has to be drawn somewhere, sometimes you are well within bounds, sometimes not. There is a gun I would like to use but it is to heavy. The reason I want to use it is I think it would give me a competitive advantage, and I like it. But I'll be fine with the 15 year old piece I have and use now. Personally, I would like to see all the divisions governed by power factor. CDP with a mag limit of 8 would be fine with just the 165000 pf. This would allow and make use of calibers, guns, not used much in competition, i.e., 9x23,38s,40,10mm,.45g, etc. I know they can be used now in esp but the factory loadings put the user at some disadvantage. Or is there some advantage to a .38s at 165pf over a .45acp at the same pf? Anyway, I am going to try and wear out my current gun in IDPA and then buy another.

[Bigbadaboom]

BBB,

The ten round mag restriction is in place because of places like wherre i live, California, where hi caps are not legal. It keeps competitors on a level playing field.

If you want to shoot IDPA, come to the match. i am sure that the local MD will allow you to shoot with you textured grip. You would not have any trouble by anyone until you shoot a state match.

I am with Ken on this issue.

Thanks for the advice and I don't mean to offend here but I'm not an "It's a local club match so we'll bend the rules" kind of guy. If it won't go at the IDPA Nationals then it shouldn't go at a local match. I'll build my gun and play the game and enjoy myself. I've read the rules several times now and am pretty familure with them so I know exactly what I'm in for.

[Duane Thomas]

What I don't understand is why are we affraid of heavy guns?

My belief is that IDPA saw the sport going the way of PPC, with extremely heavy, specialized guns that were really good for nothing but shooting that sport. Even Ernie Langdon, who won CDP with a stainless SIG P220 .45 one year, during that time frame actually carried an aluminum framed P220.

How many of you here compete with what you carry?

Me.

How many here actually wear 5.11 vests when you carry?

Actually, I compete with, and wear on a daily basis, a Concealed Carry Clothiers vest.

How many actually use a bladetech kydex holster when they carry?

That's all I've used for years.

How many people carry two extra magazines?

Me.

[Duane Thomas]

I just spent about two hours pulling out all the bickering in this thread. Let me make this clear: BrianEnos.com is a forums board that prides itself on the civility of its discourse. Referring to other posters' comments as "tired", "BS", "dumb", "tripe", "crap" or calling those who disagree with you "whiners", etc. is not going to fly. Anyone who is unclear on this concept should re-read the Forum Guidelines.

Since I thougt there were some valid points made in this thread, I did the surgery rather than shutting it down or deleting it entirely. Now, let us continue.

[uscbigdawg]

That's why we love you guys (Moderators) Duane.

Rich

[FTDR]

Bigbadaboom

sorry but it sounds like you have to many issues other than i.d.p.a. itself, and this is not intended to flame you at all, but each time you write and excuse, and someone gives an answer you counter with another excuse why i.d.p.a. will not work for you

yes it really is as simple as changing out the guide rod

yes you can shoot your hk in esp, i once went to a match that was so cold there was no cdp shooters in my class and division, i shot my 1911 cdp gun in esp, with full 170 pf loads, and only 8 round mags, yes i could have just as easily made several excuses, but i wanted to shoot more than i wanted to make excuses {btw i still won}

10 round mags in a real life situation, sounds a bit better than carrying a open rig with 26 round mags, and red dot sights in a holster i could not possibly go jogging with, nor is having a shoot out with 9 people while checking out at a atm, but it is part of the game, and we accept it

just give it a try, if it still does not work for you don't shoot it, but allow others to enjoy it if they wish

[freeidaho]

I just spent about two hours pulling out all the bickering in this thread. Let me make this clear: BrianEnos.com is a forums board that prides itself on the civility of its discourse. Referring to other posters' comments as "tired", "BS", "dumb", "tripe", "crap" or calling those who disagree with you "whiners", etc. is not going to fly. Anyone who is unclear on this concept should re-read the Forum Guidelines.

Since I thougt there were some valid points made in this thread, I did the surgery rather than shutting it down or deleting it entirely. Now, let us continue.

Duane,

Good rules indeed. One of those was one of my posts, and I should have been more mellow. Sorry.

I find it interesting, that one can use any and all of those words, and worse, when describing IDPA, IDPA HQ, Bill or Joyce. Sounds like a double standard to me. This double standard maybe what starts alot of these wild threads in the first place.

Shouldn't the same respect shown to an anonymous poster that may do nothing for our sport be afforded to the group that founded the sport?

Just a thought for you moderators to kick around...

Ken Reed

Edited October 15, 2006 by Duane Thomas

[Chills1994]

Hey Ken Reed, I'm with you on that. It might have been you a while back in response to one of my postings on the idpaforum.com that somebody did a poll in here on this sub-forum on who is actually an IDPA member. Interesting results

So let me propose this to the mods, in this here IDPA sub-forum, if you want to post, then you must include your IDPA membership number.

Or have a separate IDPA rules/policy subforum where posters must include their membership #'s.

How's that Ken?

That would be a wee bit safer and more anonymous than closing your posts with your real name like over on idpaforum.com

[uscbigdawg]

So let me propose this to the mods, in this here IDPA sub-forum, if you want to post, then you must include your IDPA membership number.

I disagree with this completely. Becuase someone's not a member of IDPA they cannot comment on IDPA. Talk about the emperor has no clothes. Much like the idea that those that found an organization are somehow exempt from criticism. Sounds very...[fill in name of political structure; Hint: See hammer & scicle].

A little info that I hold and most of the members that have been on here for a while understand. Posting here is a privilege pure and simple. The Moderators are here to keep us within our lefts and our rights. The idea that you have to be a member of an organization in order to criticize it only supports the elitest attitude that is prevelant in many of the shooting sports, IDPA included.

Again, I enjoy shooting IDPA and other "tactical" type matches, but know it's a game. I can safely say that tactics (meaning style of shooting) from either IDPA or USPSA will get you killed in a gun fight and then again they might not. Just remember, "everybody has a plan 'til they get hit [or a gun drawn on them]".

Rich

[freeidaho]

Hey Ken Reed, I'm with you on that. It might have been you a while back in response to one of my postings on the idpaforum.com that somebody did a poll in here on this sub-forum on who is actually an IDPA member. Interesting results

So let me propose this to the mods, in this here IDPA sub-forum, if you want to post, then you must include your IDPA membership number.

Or have a separate IDPA rules/policy subforum where posters must include their membership #'s.

How's that Ken?

That would be a wee bit safer and more anonymous than closing your posts with your real name like over on idpaforum.com

Chills,

Thanks for the idea ! ! !

But I'm not proposing an exclusive area for IDPA members. I believe well thougt out input from anyone and everyone is a great thing. Cross pollination is a good thing.

What I am asking is if IDPA, IDPA HQ and its founders shouldn't get the modicum of respect that we allow any poster here on the forum. I can't call one of you posters stupid, or call your ideas dumb, but it is fair game to do the same to Bill Wilson, Joyce, HQ staff, etc. Just seems inconsistent to me, and I can't see any downside to a change.

Just a thought,

Ken Reed