Concealed Carry Technique

[EricW]

Flex,

The Z-Grip amounts to just some O-Rings that you can adjust so you can grip the light in your weak hand while aiming the gun.  Dwayne is definitely the expert on that, so hopefully he will elaborate on the technique.  What is *so* damn cool about the SureFire is that it literally turns night into day.  You can see *everything* - even 50 to 100 yards away.  Until you try one, you just have no idea how bad every other flashlight is.  

I have a giant rechargable Mag Lite that was almost as good, but it wasn't very portable.  The reason I suggest the three cell ones is that it seems to be the best compromise between light output and light duration.  According to the folks at Botach - the three cell models are the most popular for that reason.

There are two things I don't like: Sure Fire doesn't give you enough O-Rings, and the lanyard they supply is over-engineered.  In order to get a good grip with my Glock I had to shove the rings all the way forward, which allows them to milk back if you bear down at all.    The lanyard SF supplies is totally ridiculous, so I just made my own lanyards out of climber's utility cord which serve my purpose perfectly.  (Please note the carefully chosen "tactical" blue/pink/black pattern.)

After my little episode this weekend, I'm just tickled with mine.  It's the best defensive tool I've ever used.  Plus, it's great to have something you can really depend on and that's made by people who actually give a s*** about what they do.  

E

[shred]

on Surefires.. one of the big name tactical teachers has a quote that goes something like "Roaches scatter from light".  It's amazing how fast groups of no-gooder's break up and drift away when lit up, even from far away.

on CCW-- I'm a big fan of pocket carry for anywhere a) it gets really hot (Texas) and when you have to un-gun frequently for whatever reason.  I have a nifty pocket-pouch that completely covers a J-frame revolver, but allows quick access if needed.  J-frames rule as pocket guns.

[EricW]

"Roaches scatter from light"

Yeah, usually, but not always.  Some days you have to direct traffic by blinding the suckers everywhere you don't want them to be.  Fortunately persistence usually pays off.  

[Mentally insert Rawhide song here]

E

[xsrdx]

It just seems to me that it is the middle aged CHL  folks who carry every where while some of the younger ones who suffer from innocence  still think that they are 7' tall, bullet proof and invisible

Any middle aged CHL holder that works for my agency will find themselves seeking new employment if they carry at work.

Much of my business, and recreation,  is done on military installations - again, concealed carry is prohibited. I've chosen to obey the law, however misguided the rules might be.

Further, in Virginia, CCW is prohibited in restaurants that serve alcohol- you can open carry, and risk arrest by an ignorant LEO, or you leave it in the car. If I travel to DC or Maryland - and I do - I will be arrested if caught with a concealed handgun.

I'm happy that those of you who choose to carry your gun to the mailbox, to pick your kids up from school, and in the shower are able to do so, and I can respect the "be prepared" attitude, but you should recognize that some lifestyles support "permanent CCW" more than others.

Anybody mistaking me - or my family -  for victims will be in for an attitude adjustment, regardless of where my gun is.

[Nik Habicht]

Eric,

Are you grabbing the light in front of the O-rings where they're positioned in the photo?  For what it's worth, I believe the the O-rings were designed so that you'd put as many as you needed closest to the tailcap, and then slide the skinny part of the light between your fingers pulling back against the o-rings to activate the tailcap switch.  You can control how much force is needed to activate the light by how tightly you screw down the tailcap.  

[Duane Thomas]

"Any middle aged CHL holder that works for my agency will find themselves seeking new employment if they carry at work."

How do you know they're not carrying anyway?

We are everywhere.

I spent 10 years on active duty in the United States Army. My final solution to the "carry" prohibition was to ETS and change to employment where you don't have to sign away your Constitutional rights to get the job - gunwriter!

[EricW]

Nik-

Yup!  I'm doing it "wrong."  (Should this be ANY surprise? )  I tried it the way you described (the "right" way) and really had trouble with the fingers on the light interfering with my trigger finger.  So, this is what I came up with.  It puts my weak-hand fingers up far enough to miss my trigger finger.  

I think a lot of it is because I'm using the G19 and everything is already mushed in close together before you ever add the flashlight to the mess.  I was hoping Dwayne had a digital camera and would demonstrate his grip.

E

[Phred]

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Quote: from Duane Thomas on 2:25 pm on Aug. 22, 2002

"Any middle aged CHL holder that works for my agency will find themselves seeking new employment if they carry at work."

How do you know they're not carrying anyway?

We are everywhere.

---

We are everywhere flaunting the law?  xsrdx went on to say "Much of my business, and recreation,  is done on military installations - again, concealed carry is prohibited. I've chosen to obey the law, however misguided the rules might be."  I would like to think there are many of us who abide by the law, carry where it's permitted and don't where it's not.  

Cheers,

Phred

[tightloop]

The CHL is like many laws, it givith and it taketh away.  In Tx, for all that you gain, you loose something.  You cannot carry lots of places, While I do not think a military base is specifically mentioned, if they have the proper signage, you are prohibited.  So, you must alter your lifestyle to eliminate as many of those places that prohibit carrying as you can from your activities. Of course, if you make your living in those places, it makes it really tough.  After I obtained the CHL, '95, I have consciously altered the places I went so I would not have to go "without".  There are still some, but not as many as B4 I started carrying.  

That is what makes the US great, you can pick and choose.  If you choose not to carry, just make sure you don't blame anyone but yourself if you find yourself in a place where you wish you had the comfort of a firearm.

[Phred]

---

So, you must alter your lifestyle to eliminate as many of those places that prohibit carrying as you can from your activities.

Lifestyle – that's it in a nutshell.

---

That is what makes the US great, you can pick and choose.  If you choose not to carry, just make sure you don't blame anyone but yourself if you find yourself in a place where you wish you had the comfort of a firearm.

---

There's nothing particularly admirable about obeying an unconstitutional and immoral law.

---

Indeed what makes the US great is respect for others.  Engaging in an activity that is illegal, an activity that your employer doesn't condone or allow, an activity that would jeopardize your employer's relationship with it's customer is hardly an admirable act.  Doing so puts others at risk and is immoral.

Phred

(Edited by Phred at 12:59 am on Sep. 2, 2002)

[tightloop]

Phred

I am not really sure what you ment by that post, but...

Since you obviously didn't understand my comments previously, let me try to make them clear, one more time.  It is everyone's choice to carry or not.  If you do carry, either leave the gun in the car or don't carry if you have to go places where the CHL is prohibited.  Just as carrying is a choice, frequenting places where you don't have that right is also a choice.  If you are like me, I choose not to go to those places any more often then necessary.

America is great because of the choices we have, and I do not advocate breaking the law in any instance.  Not only do I carry, I have taught the CHL where I live for almost 8 years and over 4000 students.  None, repeat none of my students have had a problem with the law concerning what I taught them.  Just so were are clear on these issues.  

Also understand that taking partial comments out of context is the fastest way to get folks upset that I know of.  So take heed of the carpenters creed, measure twice, cut once; before you use partial quotes of previous comments to include with your posts.

[Flexmoney]

So.....anybody shoot any matches this weekend???

[Deaf Smith]

Tightloop, I am with you on this. I to teach CHL and yes I have altered my habits (I do NOT buy a certian brand of car because at the car dealership they have 30.06 signs. To heck with them.

Fortunatly, there are few places where I see 30.06 signs. Yes, at work we do have the signs (plus it is in the policy manuel that weapons are prohibited.) But, I can say I work in a very very friendly environment where I can even see my car from my window (first floor at that.)

The only things I hope to see changed in the laws of Texas are: clarify the no-gun signs as being meaningless to CHL holders, allow CHL holders to carry in school buildings (as long as they have business there), allow carry at city hall or any city, county, or state owned land (with a few exceptions, like the Governers place.)

Personaly, I think CHL would be like NY in the respect once you have a CHL license, you can carry just about anywhere.

We will see.

Deaf

[Duane Thomas]

"A man who always obeys the law is even stupider than one who breaks it every chance."

- Robert Heinlein

[jhgtyre]

Good one Duane!  R.A.H. was truly one of the greats.

-jhgtyre

[xsrdx]

There's nothing particularly admirable about obeying an unconstitutional and immoral law.

Your idealism is admirable, but naive.

Society doesn't agree with your assessment - and your opinions won't keep you out of jail if you get caught carrying a gun illegally.

That may not bother you - I have friends that claim to welcome the opportunity to become test cases and take a stand on their "principles" - but I'm not willing to commit a felony to prove a point.

Go for it.

[Duane Thomas]

Wow....I never met anyone who'd talked to all of society.

[xsrdx]

How do you know they're not carrying anyway?

Indeed, I do not - I was merely pointing out that if caught, they will be fired. While that may be inconsequential to many, for me it's simply not a risk worth taking.

I'm heartened, though, that there seem to be plenty of folks out there willing to test the constitutional legitimacy of concealed carry restriction /prohibition; perhaps we'll get a test case to the supreme court after all.

[xsrdx]

Wow....I never met anyone who'd talked to all of society

Fair enough. My point - however imprecise - was that it's still illegal to carry a gun in certain locations, and the collective "society" has allowed those prohibitions to remain in force.

Except in Idaho, where anything goes, I understand.

I'm in total agreement that people should be allowed to carry guns anywhere - but carrying guns in locations where they are expressly prohibited by law is reckless, not admirable.

Change the law.

[Duane Thomas]

Sure. I'll get right on that.

I do have to ask - and I assure you I'm not trying to be adversarial or sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious - what you mean by "reckless." Are you referring to possible legal consequences for the law breaker? It's just the term "reckless" always has overtones to me of someone doing something dangerous to other innocent people - "reckless endangerment." Aside from opening themselves up to possible legal hassles - and that's the price you pay to defy an unjust law - I don't really see how someone carrying a concealed, discreet and undetected gun is acting recklessly.

Another Heinlein quote I love:

"No intelligent man has any respect for an unjust law. He simply follows the eleventh commandment."

[xsrdx]

what you mean by "reckless."

Merely the legal consequences to the violator.    

From my perspective, carrying an illegal gun puts my family's future at risk  - in most cases, the risk of, and penalties for, getting caught carrying in a prohibited location outweigh the risk of not having a gun.

If I perceive a legitimate threat to my, or my family's, safety, of course I will take whatever steps necessary to protect them, regardless of the legal consequences.  

99% of personal security is prevention, though, and avoiding or mitigating threats is typically much easier than dealing with them with lethal force.  I exercise my right to carry as another personal security option - not the only one.  

I agree the law is unjust - but the penalty for being a responsible citizen is often obeyance of unjust laws. I don't care for most speed limits either, but I (usually) obey them.

To those lawful CCW holders willing to carry illegally on priniciple, I only hope your gun gets you out of more trouble than it gets you into.

As an aside, I'm not talking about packing heat in a school parking lot, or inside a business with a "no guns"  sign - those are gimmes, misdemeanors at best, and not really an issue.

I'm talking about packing your concealed blaster in a muncipality where doing so will get you a felony conviction if caught, like NYC, Boston, Newark or Washington DC. Places that regularly and systematically shred the Constitution, and where nobody's read Heinlein.

[Ron Ankeny]

...actually, carrying a gun in a school parking lot is a really good way to end up with a face full of pavement. Safe Schools Act was a piece of federal legislation and some folks get really protective about guns around kids.

[Duane Thomas]

"the penalty for being a responsible citizen is often obeyance of unjust laws."

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one. I can't really equate responsibility with a willingness to bow to the unjust.

"I'm talking about packing your concealed blaster in a muncipality where doing so will get you a felony conviction if caught, like NYC, Boston, Newark or Washington DC."

Given the parameters you've set forth, my solution is simple: I'll stay out of those places, and limit myself to areas of the country where free men are still free.

"and where nobody's read Heinlein."

DEAR GOD!! Are there such places? I knew the state of literacy in modern day America was bad, but this....

[jhgtyre]

"I will accept any rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

-Robert A. Heinlein

[Duane Thomas]

Smokin'!