Concealed Carry Technique

[xsrdx]

Bad guy steps out of the shadows and puts him face down on the dirveway, robs him and tells him to get into the car, we are going for a little drive.

Wow, that's a tough break.  I am pretty vigilant about having a gun in the car, especially after dark. A dude in my driveway at 4AM would put me in SHTF mode pretty quick, with a SureFire to the face.

Still, with a sick spouse it would be easy to forget. Scary sh*t.

[Detlef]

tightloop: Ah, another Houstonian! Though my feeling is what you can't solve with 10 rds you don't need to worry about (either way). I carry *no* spare mags, but I'm not planning on missing a lot, either!

--Detlef

[tightloop]

I am with you, but I have 16 extra, just in case.

[mcoliver]

---

Sheesh, that would do it for me. I'd probably be duct taping guns to my body.

---

OUCH!

Sh*t does happen everywhere and at anytime.  The father of my co-worker almost lost his van to 6 thugs 2 weeks ago.  For whatever reason he opened the driver's window slightly, enough to put your hand through from the outside.  While  stuck in noontime traffic in a major street, 6 BGs surrounded his van and the one positioned on the drivers side stuck his hand inside the open window and tried to activate the central door locks.  While he tried to fight it off, the other hand of the BG was holding a knife w/c was also already inside the window.  Probably because their "timetable" was already disrupted and they have attracted other motorists (or other reasons) they just stopped and all ran in separate directions.  The father suffered slight cuts to both arms.  The father had a "CCW" but left his pistol in the house because the grand parents (whom he was driving with at that time) did not feel comfortable with guns around.  Go figure.  The event probably was even less comfortable for them and would probably now change their outlook in the very thing that may very well have saved their lives if the event turned out for the worst.

[EricW]

CyberSEAL,

My input is to not let price be your guide on choosing a holster.  Way too much empasis is placed on playing "Quickdraw at OK Corral" than comfort and concealability.  High Zoot holsters don't necessarily work better than the budget models.  Right now, my favorite holster is a cheapie Bianchi belt slide.  It's maybe $25 from Midway.  Instead of a thumbsnap, it has a rubber o-ring that you hook over the hammer or the back of the slide (Glock).   Not super-tactical, but very concealable, cheap, and allows a variety of positions depending on your clothing choice for the day.  I even used it for IPSC for my first few weeks.  My second favorite is Dillon's CYA that fits in the small of your back.  It was fifty smackers and worth it.  Super concealable.  

Someone has already covered this, but just as important as the holster and the gun (...just throttle back the flamethrower, it's just *my* opinion) is a Sure Fire flashlight.  (Botach Tactical has super prices on these and the lithium batteries.) Get a three cell model, or a two cell with the really bright bulb.  I have two of the Z3 models and franky I think they're THE S*** to have when the SHTF.  Hands down.  Mine probably saved my life this weekend.  

I had to go up against a serious bad guy for real, and the Sure Fire was absolutely priceless.  I could blind him at will and keep him backed off.  It was also a club and a Kubotan if I needed it.  It allowed me to keep things under control without having to escalate.  I know people will scoff, but you just can't believe the control it gives you until you're really there in the dark.  Once you get one, you'll wonder how in the hell you ever found anything in the dark with a Mag Lite.  

E

[Carlos]

CyberSeal - Welcome to Area 8. Good to hear you are a Shooter's Paradise customer. Rest assured, Phil Strader has some of the most knowledgeable shooters in the area working for him; you'll find excellent advice at Shooter's Paradise.

Moreover, both the store and the range have undergone extensive improvement now that Phil owns the place and you can expect to see the improvements continue. You will likely see a rifle-friendly indoor range within the next year or so. There may even be indoor USPSA competitions held there at some point in the future.

As for carry options, I carry strong side with a belt holster with one caveat: driving. When I am in the car, my seat belt effectively prevents me from drawing my gun. They may have invented car jacking in Detroit, but guys in the DC area have refined it to an art. Drawing a gun while seated in your car could be a life-saver. Talk to Phil or another employee at Shooter's Paradise about the use of a fanny pack  holster or another carry option for use in the car.

One more note about Shooter's Paradise: it is USPSA and IDPA friendly.  Unlike most of the indoor ranges in the DC area (with the exception of the NRA range) you are welcome to practice safe, strong-side draw from the holster at Shooter's Paradise. In addition, the staff are mostly competitive shooters (who all have CCWs) who can give you excellent advice on equipment.

If you are into competition, drop me an e-mail and I'll meet you at one of the local shoots. Fortunatly, in this area there is a match nearly every weekend within 2 hours drive.  Regards, D.

PS - Hey Kyle! Good post as to SP.

[CyberSEAL]

Thanks for the additional good info fellas.  I have been carrying a flashlight around with me too, usually when I walk out to my car at 1:30 in the am to see if this nutjob has been by.  Carlos I've thought about competition before, I'm a pretty good shot given what I know.  If I actually learned some proper technique and applied it, who knows, maybe I could get into competing.

[Flexmoney]

CyberSEAL,

Man...you are all kinds of lucky.  Get in and learn from Phil Strader (he is one of four guys on the U.S. team, going to the World shoot) and his group.

Action Pistol competition...it is a great place to learn gun-handling and fast & accurate shooting.  (It will be very humbling at first).

[Steve Anderson]

I got into shooting and competition after an ugly record store encounter with a shoplifter and a K-bar knife.

The ink was still wet on the restraining order when I got my first gun.

Have fun and stay safe.

SA

[Duane Thomas]

"I alway operate on the theory that my enemy is better and more knowledgeable than myself, or at least looks at a gun rag here and there (vest ads galore).

While it may be legal to carry and it shouldn't matter if you wear a "I have a gun" vest, I want the fact I'm armed to be unknown if possible instead of being the prime source of bad guy attention in any kind of group encounter."

People who've just begun carrying a gun - and I don't know if you fall into this category or not - tend to be extremely paranoid about anyone discovering the fact. I know I was. The truth is that if you think everyone is checking you out, just looking for the slightest bulge or anything that "screams gun"....you are seriously overestimating how much other people care about you and what you do. It may be hard on our egos to realize, but as far as the VAST majority of people in the world are concerned, we might as well be invisible.

One of my instructors went to talk to a friend of his (who was also one of his students) at work. The student worked as a bank teller. So Greg's standing there, off to the side, waiting for the last person in line to leave so he can talk to his friend. And he can't understand why the friend is dying laughing. What's happened is that Greg's shirt has ridden up over the butt of his holstered Glock. So you've got a guy standing there in a bank, waiting for it to empty of customers, carrying a gun in plain view. And you know what? No one noticed. Except the friend of course. That's how much effort other people put into checking you out.

[Duane Thomas]

"Concealed means CONCEALED in Ohio."

Um....in my experience concealed means CONCEALED everywhere they have a concealed carry permit. That's why it's called that.

[Duane Thomas]

"Finally I have a Galco "fanny pack" holster, not a bad way to go if you need to carry extra stuff like a phone, pepperspray and spare mags. Not as quick to access as a belt holster though, and vulnerable to theft. Don't get a black one, speaking of screaming "GUN"."

Y'know I was talking to Mark Pixler at Dillon, editor of the Blue Press. And he said, "We offer fanny packs in a variety of colors, but we sell about 10 black for every other color. And when we didn't offer black - because we figured people would want a fanny pack that didn't 'scream gun' - the most common question we got was, 'Do you make it in black?" The bottom line is, no matter what you say....people like black."

[Duane Thomas]

"This is an interesting subject, and I'm not sure if anybody has really looked at how OFTEN CCW carriers actually tote their blasters."

I may be one of those guys who bends the curve, but I carry everywhere. I don't hang out in bars so, aside from airports or the infrequent trip to the local courthouse to pay a traffic ticket, there's nowhere I go that I can't legally carry. And the local courthouse has a system set up where I can check the gun before going through their metal detector, and pick it up again before leaving. Once you become a serious gun carrier, it doesn't really require discipline to keep at it. It's just a habit. When I leave the house the procedure goes:  put on the gun, check that I've got my wallet and keys, lock the door behind me.

(Edited by Duane Thomas at 6:42 pm on Aug. 14, 2002)

[CyberSEAL]

I live close to Shooter's Paradise and now that I know that about Mr. Strader I will certainly drop in and see what they have going on.

As far as concealed carry is concerend I'm just trying to find what's most comfortable without having to remove anything when driving.  I only own one IWB style holster and one shoulder type (which I really don't like, I think it's a cheapie though).

I guess I'll have to buy a couple of others and see what works best for me.  Just found out todat that my rotator cuff is torn in my weak arm.  It hurts like hell when I bring both hands up to aim.  Looks like I'll be practicing some one armed firing for awhile.

[Duane Thomas]

"Though my feeling is what you can't solve with 10 rds you don't need to worry about (either way). I carry *no* spare mags, but I'm not planning on missing a lot, either!"

Sorry to be ODing on the replies here, but I've been away for a few days and I'm just working my through all the stuff that's been posted since. Y'know the excuse for not carrying spare ammo used to be, "I figure if I can't do it with six that means I'm dead." Now, in the Great Auto Pistol Age, I guess we've upped the round count but the basic attitude remains the same. Personally that's always seemed to me akin to programming yourself to die. Hopefully a gunfight would be over in a few rounds (actually, hopefully it would never happen to start with) but if it does go beyond that, whether it takes two rounds or 50....I plan on surviving. Of course if it takes 50 I'm screwed since I've only got 22 in my .45 and two spare mags....

[Duane Thomas]

"My second favorite is Dillon's CYA that fits in the small of your back."

I've always been scared to death of the CYA/SOB style holsters. One good slip on an ice-covered sidewalk, you land on your back and you're lookin' at some seriously damaged lumbar vertebra. Kind of like having a steel bar whacked across your lower back. Brrrrrrrrrr.  

[Duane Thomas]

"Get a three cell model, or a two cell with the really bright bulb."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here, but the SureFire 6P/6Z models only come with one bulb option, AFAIK. There's not a bright and less-bright option - just BRIGHT period.

(Edited by Duane Thomas at 6:43 pm on Aug. 14, 2002)

[Duane Thomas]

"As for carry options, I carry strong side with a belt holster with one caveat: driving."

I carry my holster a lot further forward than many people, in more of a true strongside carry than the behind-the-hip position most people mean when they say "strongside." It's faster - in my experience anyway - and MUCH more comfortable in a car since you're not sitting back on the gun and jamming it into your ribs. It's also much more accessible. I've had people sitting with me in a car say, "How are you going to draw your gun if you need it?" And then I just....draw the gun and they go, ".....oh."

[tightloop]

Duane

good post.  I guess I should have asked the age of all who posted here because the reason I started this thread was after my neighbor,  who was also one of my CHL students was shot.  It just seems to me that it is the middle aged CHL  folks who carry every where while some of the younger ones who suffer from innocence  still think that they are 7' tall, bullet proof and invisible.

In '95 I was co-signing a loan for my son and arrived at the bank B4 him.  He is always late.  As I talked to the loan officer, I asked her if the bank was going to post the appropriate signage to prevent CHL holders from carrying inside the bank.  Her reply astonished me, but was spot on with your comments about CONCEALMENT,  she said, "...no the bank did not have plans to prevent CHL holders from carrying inside the bank, because afterall, if they were doing it right, who would know."

I couldn't help but grin as I thought about the .45 commander under my jacket, and answered, "Well said."

[tightloop]

Not all younger CHL holders, just some of them.

(Edited by tightloop at 7:45 pm on Aug. 14, 2002)

[Duane Thomas]

Not middle-aged yet, but gettin' there. A very young 38 as this written.

Man, I'm racking up the total posts # on this one, huh?

[EricW]

Dwayne,

I've heard that argument about the SOB holsters and broken lumbars lots of times.  For me, it's right up there with the "don't run a dirty patch down your barrel - you'll ruin it" argument.  But, I jog on ice in the winter, so I'm pretty whacked out anyway.  For those of us with the proper gross motor skills, it's a good way to conceal a full-size auto.  

FYI - SureFire does make two different versions of lamp assemblies for most of their lights:  a "regular" intensity, and a very bright one.  In the case of the Z3, you can get 105 lumens for 1 hour, or a lamp that pumps out 200 lumens for 20 minutes.  Don't believe me?  Check out their site for yourself:

http://www.surefire.com/cgi-bin/main.pl?pg...&sesent=0,0

I know you're a knowledgable writer & a good guy, but do me a favor and check your facts before slamming me online.  

Respectfully yours,

Eric

[Duane Thomas]

Wasn't meant to be a slam. "AFAIK" stands for "As Far As I Know." I can always stand to be corrected. And I stand corrected now.

[Flexmoney]

Those are pretty cool lights.  (I did a Google search...lots of good info.)  

What's the Z-grip?  Does that allow you to hold the light and the gun at teh same time?

[cpty1]

If memory serves, the Z model has part of the tube reduced in size to more facilitate use of the Rogers technique, which allows the weak hand to hold the light but still assist in gripping the weapon.