3 Gun Setup

[PaulW]

Okay, I have the itch to get back into 3 gun. Sure we would all like a CR-02 from JP, but .........!

What do you experinced shooters recommend for a 3 gun Ar setup and from who?

This would be for open/tactical division. (probably open)

Also note that locally we don't shoot to much at long distance. Every once in awhile we get to shoot out to 100yrds, but most is closer than that.

What about shotgun?

So much to choose from......any help or pointers would be great.

[mike_pinto]

Shotgun: M2 from Benny!

Rifle: The RRA Elite UTE2 with the SS barrel would work great (with rolling thunder comp and SS LMOS). The upper can co-witness with a Eotech without mods. I can shoot mine past 300 open sighted without fear. That is a great setup for ~$1200 out the door with sight. KurtM has mine right now, maybe he can get a pic posted. You can add on to it later as well. I personally like the 2-stage trigger after I got used to it, but is easily replaced with a JP.. And get lotsa bullets..

My $.01

Mike

Edited September 22, 2006 by mike_pinto

[norbs007]

Benny for everything .

[mike_pinto]

Benny for everything .

+1 on that idea too..

Mike

[Dan Sierpina]

Dan Bedell isn't building long guns????

Shotgun, go with the Benelli M2 Field, Comfort Tech version. 21" or 24" Vent Rib. The 24" will take the long extension without looking like you have a bayonet on it. Get extended choke tubes. Carlson has them for the Crio Choke version, available from Brownell's.

For shooting under a 100 yards for rifle, any AR is more than accurate enough. It's pretty hard to build an AR that doesn't shoot well. I shoot tactical so, I can't give options as to scope plus dot.

As Mike mentioned.......Lot's of Bullets!

[Merlin Orr]

Quality of work, Quick service, Bang for the buck, One stop shopping with any service being done by one person. Experience at the 3 gun game..........

Benny Hill.

[BigDave]

If you want one stop shopping - Benny Hill. He'll build and AR for you they way you want it. He'll also (so we've all read here) build a Benelli M2 that will just run and run.

Beyond that...

Rifle - I'd look at a 16" or 20" flattop from DPMS. A standard mil spec gas block and bolt carrier will do fine. If you have the funds, a JP adjustable gas block is nice. A good trigger is a must, as is a free float tube. I have a JP trigger and it is great. Comps - JP's Cooley, Miculek or Flatland Forge's F2 will all do you just fine in this game. If you don't feel like tinkering, Clark Custom Gun's Gator is a great rifle.

Shotgun - Benelli M1/M2, Remington 1100/11-87, Winchester Super X2 or Browning Gold. Remington has the Competition Master that is ready to do out of the box. Winchester does something similar with the X2. You'll have to get Briley to build up a Browning for you. I hae an out of the box Benelli M1S90 that runs. Some people have them built/tuned by either Benny Hill or Beven Grams.

Optics - a low powered variable is great for this game. If you're going to stay local with your game, a dot is great and I recommend an Aimpoint on a LaRue mount. If you do go with magnification, there are many great choices from Leupold, Weaver, Trijicon, IOR and whatever Benny recommends today

Misc - Shotgun trays from CCW or from Progressive Machine (spendy but fantastic build). Side saddles, AR mag holders, and other nylon accesories from 3gungear.com.

[tewlman]

Dave,

Quit calling my stuff "spendy"! its priced according to the following:

1)What it takes to mfg.

2)how well it performs compared to the competition.

Basically, you get what you pay for.

[bigbrowndog]

tewlman....are you progressive machine?? :

if so, dan earnest sold all his loaders that he had on him in greece, they literally took them from him after the match was over.........great product.

thanks for excellent products!!

trapr

[mike.45]

I told Steve those Brit guys would dig it !

Mind you Dan was a smart seller when it came to timley oppertunities

[blkbrd]

Borrow a buddies gear----Whip up on the local competition----Then decide what you want.

[bigbrowndog]

mikey.....have you been sharing your recipe with others, cuz this guy has figured it out

trapr.

[uscbigdawg]

Paul I'll throw in my hat.

Pistol...you're covered with Dan. Rifle, there's JP and Benny. Shotgun there's Beven Grams and Benny (for Benellis). After that, 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Honestly the only other folks I'd consider are Shawn Carlock and Briley (shotgun). I'm sure I'm forgetting someone but I think by now you're seeing a theme.

Rich

[tewlman]

trapr,

Yes, thats me! I am glad to hear Dan sold all his gear, i just hope it wasnt to finance the flight home! Maybe next year I can join you guys at the world shotgun champs.

Mike, i got a truck load of shell carriers ready to ship across the ocean, you ready ready for them???

[kurtm]

Steve, it won't be next year. The next E.S.C. will be in 2009, and the first world shotgun in 2010 these big level IV and level V only happen every 3 years. Kurt

[redmercury2]

ACCURACY SPEAKS in mesa,az. does very good work on AR 15 setups,triggers,uppers and barrel work,....SEMPER FI .

[tewlman]

i Knew that Kurt, i was just seeing if anyone was paying attention

[kellyn]

First of all pick a division! What kind of pistol do you have? If you want to shoot open and don't have an open pistol, you'll HAVE to add that little expense to your consideration.

I'd pretty much parrot everyone else:

Shotgun: Benelli M2 from Benny or Beven. Or an 1100/1187 from Accuracy Speaks or JP. Or a Winchester/FN SX2. Carlock has a good rep too. If you shoot open, get a JPoint mounted on there.

Rifle: JP for one stop shopping. Accuracy Speaks and Benny and MSTN all make good stuff. In tactical, I'm currently shooting a POF piston upper on a DSA lower with a JP trigger and comp and am pretty happy with that setup. For open: a JP upper on the same lower. For tactical: get a low powered variable or TA11. For open: get low or midpowered variable or TA11 and a JPoint.

Pistol: Since my personal Benny Hill Fat Free .40 is the greatest handgun ever made, you'll have to settle for for something less.

Whatever division you pick, ZERO the damn things.

[bigbrowndog]

hey Kel....

not trying to be funny or anything, but what was the problem with your AR at Raton carbine rifle?

i know it was giving you fits, or maybe my memory is getting really baaaad.

trapr

[PaulW]

Thanks guys...

I have done a lot of homework and here is where I am at.

I want to be able to shoot Tactical or Open. ( I think I have an open gun, yup I do).

I spoke to Benny and I believe he is "the " man but having a hard time spending that kind of $$$$ on a shotgun. Not that it would not be awesome, but DAYUM. Rifle I'm thinking about a good quality lower with JP trigger and all the other goodies with a Vtac or CTR-02 upper from JP. This should work well.

Shotgun... a lot of local guys love the Browning Gold, but the 11-87 looks like a potential as well. Still kinda up in the air here.

Optics: This is a tuff one. I like the dots (tactical allowed) and have played with a CQ/T Leupold that was pretty slick. Honestly here locally we don't get to shoot that far, 100 yrds once in awhile, so dot would do just fine. C-More, Aimpoint, EoTech, are all possible suspects.

Then there are accesseries ................

[smokshwn]

Paul,

A note on the open shotgun. I was worried about spending the kind of money on a gun that was being quoted. I think Benny was over six bones without optics I had a Benelli M1 sitting at the house but kept coming up short for the rest. Picked up a used Arredondo chute and a mag extension and viola the gun runs like a scalded cat. I touched up the magazine opening with a dremel and it feeds from the tec loaders 100% if I do my part. Mounting the Jpoint wasn't too much of a problem either it just took a while to figure it out as there is noone other than Bevan making a mount so I had to mod a JP Remmy mount to fit. Ultimately rather than the 1k to get the gun where it is I got there for around $500 (chute $120, ext $90, Jpoint $300).

I realize not every gun will run 100% but I figured I would put it together stock and then have benny fix it from there.

Good Luck, Craig

Edited September 30, 2006 by smokshwn

[itento]

Paul, I have both a JP CRT-02 and an Open Shotgun (11-87). Love both. A hint on the shotgun. I heard a lot about 11-87 being fenicky. I found that keeping the piston area well lubed (Mobil 1) and clean helped alot. Another thing, the 11-87 need plenty of gas to move the piston. The JP gas ports are bored out to .125 (approx). I clean them with a 1/8" drill bit just to make sure all the carbon is out. The JP is ported which really reduces the felt recoil. I went to the range this week to test various rounds ( shot 2 boxes of Win Super Speed 7 1/2s, 1 box of Fiocchi 3 Dram 1 1/8 oz #9 Spreader, 1 box Fiocchi 3 1/4 Dram 1 1/4 oz #4s, 10 Rem Sluggers and 10 Rem Reduced Recoil Sluggers). Shot them in pretty rapid succession without a hiccup (or a sore shoulder). It really does shoot soft. When I cleaned the gun, the tube was plenty black but not gunked up. The other thing I would recommend is replacing the o ring at every cleaning. They do get nicked during normal shooting. See www.TruGripUSA.com. I do use speed loaders and like them also. They are really not that hard to learn how to use.

I think the JP rifle is also great. The low mass recoil system really does make a difference coupled with the compensator. I did a demo for our club members and let them shoot my gun at Flash Targets at 125 Yards. The wives and kids were a little apprehensive but were really amazed they could hit the targets with no problem and the gun recoiled like a .22 rim fire. For most of them it was their first time shooting a high powered rifle (or any rifle).

[markm]

I looked at the options, costs, time, and went with Benny.... Shotgun, rifle, pistol and have never looked back. Everything was great out of the gate, and the things I screw up, he fixes. Is this a great country or what?

[kellyn]

hey Kel....

not trying to be funny or anything, but what was the problem with your AR at Raton carbine rifle?

i know it was giving you fits, or maybe my memory is getting really baaaad.

trapr

The traitor was an OLD JP upper. I was shooting it because it was the most accurate upper that I've currently got (constant 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups with 69 Sierra or Noslers). It's getting a new gas tube and rings, hopefully that will solve its gas-related issues. But it was definitely not happy at Raton.

[Chuck Anderson]

I've been using a JP upper pretty much since I really got into three gun. If you're not going to use an ACOG, you can pass on the CTR-02 and just get his basic upper. A lot cheaper, just not as pretty. Everything else is the same. MSTN also has what look like some great rifles. Taran has been using them and he seems to do OK I guess.

As far as the shotgun I've used most of the current designs and I'm currently shooting the Gold now. Took a couple years to get it running right (went back to stock spring and that fixed all the problems) It is very sensitive to cleanliness. The other downside is when it does have malfunctions they tend to be a LOT harder to clear than Remmy malfunctions. Cool thing with the Browning is the auto load feature. Allows for a little more lattitude in stage planning. This year at Nationals there was one stage that had two banks of 9 rounds each. Other tactical shooters either had to do two reloads or load the chamber. I just stuffed 9 in the tube and moved on. Only shotgun stage I didn't totally get my clock cleaned on. It's also great for matches like the MGM where stage planning really doesn't count for much 150 rounds into the stage.

I've still got two Remingtons that I use for backup. They still work great.