Limnats Stages

[wide45]

I'll start with stage 12, Bridge Beam.

I was the only one in my squad that skipped the drop turner. I had it figured as a wash. Save two seconds by not stopping.

Did not see any other squad shoot that stage. Did everyone shoot at it?

[Matt Cheely]

I skipped it. I think most people did...

[Jake Di Vita]

Saved WAY more than 2 seconds by skipping it...that was a total sucker target.

[davidball]

We skipped it too. What Jake said.

I only skipped one other drop turner and now know I shouldn't have. Were there any others that I should have skipped or was my math / thinking correct that the others were a good points v. time decision?

Edited September 19, 2006 by davidball

[Waltermitty]

I don't think a single person in Limited 6 Division wasted any time on it.

[jasmap]

Same with Squad 22. We all skipped it. HUGE waste of time to engage it. No way it would have been worth even getting 2 Alphas.

[Bear23]

All of us in Squad 33 skipped it...Waste of time to go for it.

[Jim Norman]

What would have made the stage better would have been to either remove the hardcover from the activator popper OR to change the activation from the popper that was used to the one or next to the one that activated the swinger. Also moving the Drop-Turner about 2 feet to the right. It would have become a viable target.

As it was no one on our squad shot it either. We figured you'd have to shoot the popper, requiring a near if not total stop, then take a step to see and engage the DT. Figured at 2-3 seconds it just didn't make any sense.

Jim

Edited September 19, 2006 by Jim Norman

[Jasonub]

how do you score that 2 mikes thus 15 x 2 = 30 points down plus a failure to engage target -10 total of -40 points?

[Matt Cheely]

how do you score that 2 mikes thus 15 x 2 = 30 points down plus a failure to engage target -10 total of -40 points?

Disappearing target. Therefore all you loose is the 10 points from the hits.

[Jim Norman]

Remember a D is worth 17 points on an regular target, but only 2 points on a disapearing target!

Jim

[tobydog]

I think I was the only one to not engage it on squad 6. Not that it saved me any time, but sometimes your best laid plans go south! My shooting partner looked at me and asked if I really meant to do that! He gave me a very funny look when I said yes. (I also beat him on that stage, but not by much!)

[Interceptor]

You definitely were not alone. No one in my squad shot it and no one in the Limited SS #16 shot it.

[Jasonub]

how do you score that 2 mikes thus 15 x 2 = 30 points down plus a failure to engage target -10 total of -40 points?

Disappearing target. Therefore all you loose is the 10 points from the hits.

ok, at ipsc country we get minus 40 for that and thats a loooooooot

[Waltermitty]

how do you score that 2 mikes thus 15 x 2 = 30 points down plus a failure to engage target -10 total of -40 points?

Disappearing target. Therefore all you loose is the 10 points from the hits.

ok, at ipsc country we get minus 40 for that and thats a loooooooot

Then at "ipsc country" you're not following the 2004 (green) rule book IAW Para 9.9.2. All you should LOSE on a disappearing target is whatever your hits would have been up to a max of 2 "A's" (10 points). On a fast mover many folks actually score less than two "A's".

Any other mover that remains visible (9.9.1) or a disappearing target that isn't activated (9.9.3) will incur the FTE and miss penalties.

The key point is that the entire stage points are divided by your time to get your hit factor. Take the total 115 possible stage points and divide them by whatever your time was. Then take 105 points and divide them by 2 seconds less. See which one gives the higher hit factor.

On long courses like this a couple of seconds are worth much more than 2-10 points on one target.

[shred]

I think Jason is thinking it wasn't activated-- it was activated, just not shot at, right?

9.9.2 Moving targets, which do not comply with the above criteria, will not incur failure to shoot at or miss

penalties except where Rule 9.9.3 applies.

9.9.3 Moving targets will always incur failure to shoot at and miss penalties if a competitor fails to activate the

mechanism, which initiates the target movement.

[XRe]

Yeah - looks like you'd activate it later in the stage by shooting a popper from a different location than you'd have to in order to shoot the turner...

[38superman]

Speaking of "Bridge Beam", am I the only one that dislikes these raised platform stages?

This is the second tournament this year where I have encountered this type of stage.

I am uncomfortable with it because you are focused on targets down range and you can't really pay too much attention to your feet. It is mostly instinctive.

This game is the grown up equivalent of running with scissors.

Seems to me that running on an elevated platform is flirting with disaster.

One bad step and you may find yourself tumbling across the ground with a gun that is locked, loaded & cocked.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

My squad negotiated the course okay.

I'm wondering if any of the other competitors stepped off or fell on this course.

Any close calls?

Tony

P.S. I didn't shoot at the drop turner either. I shot at all the others but this one was positioned such that it was not worth the time.

Edited September 20, 2006 by tlshores

[davidball]

Seems to me that running on an elevated platform is flirting with disaster.

Some would say that a lot of things we do in this sport - running with a loaded gun, speed reloads, assuming and then exiting awkward positions, shooting at steel - falls into the category of "flirting with disaster". So it would appear to be a question of where do we draw the line. For example, we don't crawl over a lot of obstacles as they did in the "old days" (at least it is my understanding that they used to do this). I agree that the platform added an element of danger with regard to overall safety. But no one was required to run. Each shooter had to balance safety with their ability to negotiate the platform.

I have heard an argument made that the boardwalk was too much a physical test rather than a shooting test. This may have more merit than the "safety" angle.

No one in our squad stepped off of the platform, although one came close (twice).

[reneet]

None of us in the ladies squad engaged the drop turner including our token guy ... GM Mark Hanish. No possible way to come out ahead by shooting at it.

[Flexmoney]

Speaking of "Bridge Beam", am I the only one that dislikes these raised platform stages?

Tony,

I think the raised platform stages are very practical test. Most of the shoot that we do is on "square ranges" with pretty good footing. We really aren't inclined to have to worry about our feet all that much (other than faulting). I'm not trying to go all "real-world-practical", but the beams do require the shooter to pay a lot more attention to their feet. I think that is something that we fail to test on a regular basis with much of our shooting. The beams can facilitate those kind of tests fairly easily.

[carinab]

Running on a raised beam isn't an issue until it gets wet. I was kind of surprised to a see a platform stage in Barry. There have been years where the weather was such that scuba gear would have seemed nearly appropriate.

Cleats on a wet, smooth, wooden surface? It's like ice skating. I do consider that flirting with disaster. It also has the potential to literally make the playing field uneven. At the 95 nationals, a stage that had a wooden ramp had vastly different times between the morning squads (dry weather) and afternoon squads (drizzle). After quite a number of wipe outs, some lattice was affixed to the ramp but there weren't any reshoots given as it was a modification to the stage for safety reasons. If the weather hadn't been so great last week, I could easily imagine a pile of penalties, or worse a DQ or two, happening on the bridge beam stage. Even with the good weather, I'm curious to see if the morning squads ran any slower than those in the afternoon. I may just have to look that up.

It's not monkey motions or prop tossing, true. But, I'm thinking there must be a better way to make shooters pay attention to their footing besides offering them trip hazards.

[Flexmoney]

Yikes...smooth wooden surface?

I can see not liking that much.

The prop needs to be as safe and fair as possible. Kinda surprised.

The beams I have seen have been made of metal, specifically desinged to be walked on. Good traction. (metal stair tread, scafolding, etc.)

[davidball]

The beam was a good 18 inches wide and had been painted with a frictionous, sand-like material. We were first on the stage on Thursday morning. Despite the dew, footing was good. I did, however, leave my hiking-type shoes on until after I shot the stage and saved the cleats for the slightly mudding conditions up on Stage 14.

I appreciate Carina's point about the uneven playing field, but the same could be said for cloudy v. sunny conditions, sun behind you v. sun behind the targets, cool day v. hot day, etc. A good example would be Area 6 this year. I would have hated to have shot the stage where you had to go prone on Sunday morning when it poured rain for an hour as shooting commenced. Yikes. It was bad enough up at the Glock House where we stood ankle deep in water in the start box.

[38superman]

It was the second stage of the morning for my squad on Wednesday.

I didn't think the surface was especially slippery and as David notes it was reasonbly wide.

Each shooter had to balance safety with their ability to negotiate the platform.

That is the part I worry about.

I would bet that sooner or later a shooter would exceed their ability to safely negotiate the platform, but I suppose that is true for any stage.

I didn't want to start a controversy.

I just had some concern about it and I think its always appropriate to scrutinize the things we do from a safety aspect.

Tony