ErikW Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 How many rounds before each broke? In a Limited gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Damn Scott you have no luck at Topton. I was all paranoid about the original so I bought a new one at the match. It worked with no problem. Are they breaking in your 6"? I've got about 4,000 on the original. George fit a regular reverse plug for the RM. I don't use the STI one. I wonder if it could be a fit problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 I got one as a replacement for a broken STI tungsten rod and was a little annoyed to discover that the instructions say "You must use this with the included recoil spring plug-- grind chunks off your comp if needed". My Open blaster has a slightly shortened slide and thus the RM plug sticks out a tad and bangs into the comp. Not wanting to grind away on it, the RM is going someplace else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott G Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Erik: Yup, in 2 diffrerent limited guns - one normal Edge, one with short dust cover, both 5". First one had a couple of thousand rounds; second and third one's had less than 500. Chriss: Don't even get me started. Our squad finished with 5 minutes to spare before they pulled the plug due to darkness. I pretty much shot in the dark the whole match anyway. I talked to STI yet again today, including the engineer who designed it. He told me that Mike Voight broke 2 of the originals too, and a couple of others have broken them. I am clearly leading the pack with three though. I feel so special... He wanted me to send my guns to him to take a look at, which I refuse to do. If all three broke in the same gun, then maybe, but not 2 different guns. He said that he is still not happy with the materials being used, and promised to send some RM's that will work this week. Thank you sir, may I have another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Me, I'd just give up on them after breaking two. It's not like they make a huge improvement and you can't live without 'em. I've been tungsten-free for over three years because I didn't want to deal with the rods breaking. I've probably got a couple thou on my first RM, not quite there on the other one. Scott are you using the Light one by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad45acp Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 I had an STI Recoil Master and didn't like it. Recoil was more than with a SpringCo. I gave it 2 matches and shot terrible, I just didn't like the way it felt. The SpringCo is back in and I shoot just fine now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott G Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Erik, I am basically a glutton for punishment. I have used and broken both light and heavy. I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt with a new product, and the failure mechanism of the first two sounded reasonable. I truly expected the "fixed" one to work. Plus Todd keeps raving about them. You're right, it's not a revolutionary thing, but I really liked the way the gun shot and handled with the RM, moreso than with tungsten or steel rods with shock buffs. These guns have collectively over 60,000 rounds without breaking anything (other than front and rear sights, which is a whole other story). So I'm going back to what I know will work and not spew out parts during a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csholtmeier Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 has anybody figured out what the weight of the main or larger spring is in the heavy recoil master? i just can't believe it lasts forever and STI says that this is "proprietary information" not to be released Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 If Nolan brings his spring tester to the next match I bring a Limited gun, he can test mine and tell you. I'm guessing it's about a 10 #. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 I cut down a standard length 7# spring so it wouldn't stack up and it worked fine. If I continue to use the RM I'm just going to make a note of how many coils I cut off and go on using cut down std. springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 According to my handy 99-cent recoil spring tester, the "light" RM's main spring is about 7.5 lbs at full compression. It's also very similar (though lighter) to a Glock 23 spring I had lying about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott G Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Out of sheer curiosity I sent the gun that 2 RM's broke in out to STI. This was also motivated by my switching back to a tungsten rod, and the gun feeling much flippier than with the RM. They looked at it and did some slight machining of the spring tunnel, and flattened/squared the spot in the frame where the head of the guide rod goes. Apparently it had been bashed enough by other guide rods such that the RM did not seat properly, which caused flex in the rod, which caused bits o'RM to spew from the gun. Whether it fixes the problem remains to be seen, but more than anything, STI has delivered great customer service thus far. Ed, the engineer of the RM, and Chris, the customer service manager, have both taken a personal interest in making things right, which makes the whole saga thus far easier to take. They provided their UPS account # for shipping, did the repair in one day, and even offered to refinish my gun free of charge (I kinda like it with lots of blueing missing). Also put several hundred rounds thru it and inspected it before and after. Above all, they are honorable folks trying their best to solve issues with a new product that may not quite be the drop-in part that they had hoped for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkmccoy Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 I've got a couple of questions, if you all don't mind... I've been using a Springco in my P14-45 for about three years now, and I really like the feel. I've never experienced the "infamous weak mainspring/Springco" failure to feed. Have I missed something? What is this? How does it happen? Why is it different from a failure to feed from a weak mainspring? I've seen the RM and some of my friends are using one. I haven't had a lot of chance to inspect one and I have a question for those of you that have one in hand...It appears to me that as the slide starts back both springs are compressed. That is, there is nothing mechanical that limits the travel on one spring so that it is compressed before the other spring. Is this correct? Cheers, Kelly McCoy A42081 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad45acp Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 it's like a springco, both springs compress at roughly the same time. From what I've been told, the beauty of the RM lies when the slide go's back into battery, reducing muzzle flip. I tried it, didn't like it and put my springco back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 I just tried a heavy RM. Our STI agent had sent it out to try, I think I was only the 2nd to use it, though the first had liked it so much he shot WS with it. It did feel good, but after only 20 rounds in my gun the flange that connects the secondary spring sheared off. Its a shame cause I have been looking to lighten the muzzle without loosing the soft shooting properties of a tungsten rod. P.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 I'm still looking to hear more about these STI gizmos, I have used Springco for four years, and while I have been largely satisfied with their products, their customer service leaves something to be desired. The STI folks are a joy to work with (I know from putting together match sponsorship) and I would be really happy to have their parts in my gun to tell everyone about. forgive me if I rant a little.... After a couple of years my $100+ Springco "gave up the ghost" during a stage (unbeknownst to me) sending the rod down range, beating up the inside of my gun, destroying my reverse plug. Lifetime guarentee? We'll see... The fellah on the phone seemed anxious to help, was gonna rush me out an "updated" version, and even make up the difference (I had the Tungsten, which they no longer make) with a few of his spiffy new recoil springs. (He did charge me $8 for shipping but no biggee). I was impressed and ready to be a free lifetime Springco spokesman. The package arrives.......there is an INVOICE for five springs, a replacement reverse plug, and a shiny new SS rod. The package CONTAINED one spring. That's it. I called, he researched it, apoligized and figure he must've sent my goodies to the fellah that ordered one spring to try right before I called. I figure no sweat, honest mistake. Dude has a heart attack, is out for a week, returns too early has a stroke, then surgery. I feel bad about calling but Area 6 is fast approaching and....my gun no run!!! Short version; the guy says he "has a hard time buying my story"!!! How the hell can I prove he DIDN'T send me what's on the invoice? I dunno, I just want my gun back up!!! It ends up I borrowed one, didn't shoot very well and am still smarting. I figure I owe him at least as much bad PR as the good PR he would've earned if he had done what he said he would. You know what? A local guy WON one in a drawing at Area 6. I offered to buy it, he wouldn't hear of it and GAVE it to me because he didn't need it. Thanks again "Sandman" I don't forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 Dirtypool, wow that sucks. Talk about your all time backfires! Why doesn't anyone just use a normal spring etc... Seems like everyone is having serious issues with the all the gizmos. Why not just get back to shooting? The more twinkie parts, the more chances to loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 Well said Matt. I too got all caught up in trying the sprinco this and that. Then Brian said just about what you said, "Why put a potential problem into your gun in a place that basically is no problem now?" DUH......he, as well as you are right on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowter Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Quote: from MattBurkett ... Seems like everyone is having serious issues with the all the gizmos. Why not just get back to shooting? The more twinkie parts, the more chances to loose. "Gizmos"? LOL. C'mon be fair, exactly how much of this gun would John Moses Browning Recognize - http://www.mattburkett.com/burkettlimited.html Just because you're sponsored by STIs main competitor doesn't mean you have to kick them when they're down. (and I mean that in the nicest way) All advances in technology have had minor setbacks. Maybe when its all said and done the STI RM will be just a piece of unnecesary junk but I think that it's a little premature to call for a moratorium on handgun technology. The tungsten guide rod that everyone is switching back and forth from the STI RM was just a "gizmo" a few years ago. On another note... my STI Recoil Master just broke. (see- I'm not an apologist for STI)The thing that looks like a washer that is attached to the tube that compresses the strong spring - broke off. The funny thing is that I didn't recognize the difference while I was shooting. hmmmm.... maybe a personal paradigm shift is coming... It was after about 6,000 rounds and STI said that they would replace it. It's apparently the same problem they've been having with the old ones BUT the new ones are better put together. I'll update after I get it back. (Edited by Dowter at 2:04 pm on Oct. 31, 2002) (Edited by Dowter at 2:05 pm on Oct. 31, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Dowter, what an interesting phonetic name. Hmm, special meaning there? First of all I don't consider tungsten "twinkie". :-) Its a pretty tough material. Very tough apparently compared to the stuff the recoil master is made out of. LOL I just have seen too many of them break to be able to recommend them. Not to mention, I didn't see any performance improvement in the shootability of the limited guns with the part. That's why I think ammunition is a much better purchase in the long run. If it was a good part that made a difference in shooting, I would recommend it. I have no hard feelings with STI. I do know who makes significantly superior gun and parts in comparison. :-) Any guesses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowter Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Hmmn... if that's what you mean by "twinkie" then well... yeah, I guess they are. It's kind of hard to defend something that breaks alot. (Hopefully the new ones are better.) But "gizmo" is a fighting word! (Edited by Dowter at 5:13 pm on Oct. 31, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc40jim Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 I have shot for Sprinco for about 5 years now. Thru the old regime and with the current leadership. Sadly there are many lies and misleadings out there about the system that has in effect kept it down for some time. The Recoil Master was born as a copy on the Sprinco idea and as a product improvement design. Several years ago and under the old regime, parts were made by the lowest bidder and there was virtually no quality control in the assembly process. Even while I was shooting for them, I would get parts cut so far off center they would not function, parts with tool marks not polished out but nothing ever flew apart thank goodness. We have improved quality control to an all time high, parts are correctly made, assembled and we go to great lengths to make sure the end user is happy. Most shooters don't understand at all the cycle of function of a pistol, don't really understand what recoil is and how it is generated or controlled. With that in mind it is not possible to build a system that will accomodate what everyone feels or understands. While from outward appearance one might assume that the Recoil Master and the Sprinco function the same, nothing could be farther from the truth. The Recoil Master starts to collapse both springs at the point in the cycle when the slide starts to move to the rear, both springs control how fast the slide moves to the rear and then again back into battery. Conversely the Sprinco used a standard weight recoil spring weight dependent upon what the individual shooter wants to achieve. Lighter springs allow the slide to travel back and forth faster and with less slide impact when returning to battery, the subspring allows the slide to travel back faster than with nothing and still not damage the gun. Function much like a mechanical shok buff, the subspring can be tuned to a particular use or load, as can the actual engagement points for a give firearm. Those shooters who experienced a "2 stage recoil" or a "Secondary Impulse" simply don't have the correct spring rates installed. Short of the Sprinco coming apart at the head there are no longer breakage problems. The tungsten rods have been discontinued do to the problems encountered in the design and connecting the tungsten weight to the stainless steel shaft. The SS rod for all intents and purposes a full length guiderod product improvement. Most of the top GM's at one time shot them, liked them and what they did for splits, cycle time and felt recoil, but that was under the old regime when parts would and did break. I would encourage shooters at all levels and with any firearm type to give it a try. Sprinco has a 30 day money back guarantee, and a 1 year warranty for parts breakage. If your pistol is fit correctly, your mags are tuned to run right and your ammo is up to standard, you won't experience "Sprinco failures to feed" like any other part if the gun is not right then an add on part is not going to help it. With normal maintenence you are not going to experience troubles. If the Sprinco comes from my shop it will be tuned with the spring weight you select, and I will ensure that the shaft will not seperate from the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 how do you really "feel" jim? lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Drift mode on: Welcome aboard Jim. Havent seen you since the NC section. Hope things are going well. Drift mode off: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowter Posted November 24, 2002 Share Posted November 24, 2002 I got my Recoil Master back last week. It feels different than the Recoil Master that broke on me. They were suppose to be both Heavy RMs but I think that my first one was a light one (either accidently or STI has changed the spring recipe) I have to say that I really like the Recoil Master. I'm getting some scary tight groups with it. When I would shoot with a tungsten rod my groups would be semi-round with a few shots in a row right below the group. Those low jokers have pretty much disappeared. I'm assuming that this is because the slide returns gently and doesn't cause the gun to nose down. Of course the biggest criticism is that the RM is a "twinkie part". Well... I'll tell you in the spring after about 10,000 rounds about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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