mscott Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Title says it all. I'm sure it still boils down to the shooter, but are open Glocks any where near as competative as real (steel) open guns? Would a guy be better off buying a used open gun or adding $1,000 (probably a little less) worth of goods to a Glock that you already own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 The used open gun is probably your best bet. However, opinions will vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 There's no single answer that everyone will agree with. [PM sent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 If they run they are just fine. I got to shoot one fine specimen at the Steel Challenge by S and J Customs...www.glockjockey.com I think..... This gun ran and ran. At other matches I have ROd I have never seen an open glock run the whole match except ones built by John Nagel or S and J(...over 30 guns now if I remember correctly...) The correct combo seems to be running a Model 17 with a 2 port comp or so, but I am not schooled in the way of the Glock... Good luck, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Glock can be built to run just fine in Open especially for steel shooting. You need to be carefully about keeping the comp/barrel weight as low as possible. I normally use either Tit or alum for the comp on steel guns........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yar1180 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Bob built my open glock. It's 100%. Shot over 2000 rounds at the American Handgunner and it ran without a single malfunction. After the initial break in and learning processes of moving to open I have not had one problem with it. The thing is damn accurate too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Depends. First off, you are starting with a pretty light gun as the basic platform. That might not be for everybody. Getting them to run takes a bit of work. Then again, there aren't very many garage-smiths making STI's run with Major 9mm either. The biggest hurdle is ejection. Everybody wants a C-more...and for good reason. With a C-more, you usually have to mount it over the slide. Mounts that allow the brass to eject tend to be pretty high over the slide...which is something the shooter has to deal with. Go with a lower mount, and you likely need to mill/lower the ejection port and then tune the ejection. All that aside, you probably want to know about the shooting. Mine, the little I've played with it, shows great potential. I've had some blistering runs on steel. And, there is no doubt in my mind that I could shoot it into Grand Master class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open17 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Yes, it can be done and they can be made to run just fine. I started doing them kind of by accident. Had a red dot, mount and ported barrel lying around, so put them on a G35. Been building and shooting major 9 G17's for almost 3 years now, with very few problems. Lightened slides, 4-8 port comps with a couple of blow holes, melted in Docter optics. Trigger work, a decent magwell, and your choice of grip treatment. Lately I've been playing with a accessory rail weight to bring the gun weight into the 32-26 oz. range. Seems to be working so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Flex nailed the subject of ejection pretty well. My open Doctor/Ti-comp Glock has ejected 9x19 cases everywhere from 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock, often during the same magazine of ammo. Several cases have hit me in the head. Johnnie at S&J has worked very hard to get a setup that works with the C-More & his mount is probably the best one out there. If he would make his mount and his magwell in stainless steel that might soften up the G17's for Open USPSA pretty nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscott Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 Thanks for the replies so far guys. I would probably look to Novak or S&J to have a barrel fitted and their aluminum comp. along with getting the ejection port lowered. I also figured on the S&J mount with a C-More. I've done a little searching through old posts trying to figure out what works for others. I'll have to find a couple to shoot here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 What is the price differential between an Open Glock and an Open S_I??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glock_40_caliber Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 What is the price differential between an Open Glock and an Open S_I??? My open 35 that I just built cost approximately $1100 when it was done. Includes the gun, JPoint sight and mount, barrel, comp, and magwell. But the best part of it is it runs just like a glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azone41 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 We just put an open glock together for a friend. He will shoot his first match with it tomorrow. It is a 35 40cal but he wanted to do it on the gun he already had. It shoots great but not anywhere close to my Bedell or JL Hardy open guns. I belive he will shoot it for a while and then go to an STI platform in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 What is the price differential between an Open Glock and an Open S_I??? Starting with a used G17, I could add parts to make a capable Open Glock for not much more that the cost of mags for the STI....give or take. Call it, G17 + $550 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 (edited) Flex can you give us a breakdown of the $550? Does that include the 170mm and 140mm Glock mags with basepads? The SJC Open Major package is listed as $1575 plus the customer supplied G17. $1575(package)+$525(gun)+(2x$50 shipping)+(4x$20 mags)+(3x$30 140mm bases)+$45(170mm base)=$2415. This is about $1000 cheaper than say a Bedell STI based Open gun with 4 STI mags with basepads. Will the aluminum comp on the SJC gun hold up to major loads for very long? I can't believe it would last as long as a steel comp. Edited August 26, 2006 by vincent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 My open Glock ran $700 on top of the base gun and that included four +11 basepads for the four 17 round mags I already had :-) Now that it is developed, it has been running fine for quite a few K without much ado. It's easily over 10k now and maybe even nearing 15k with a pretty good track record over most of that haul. The biggest issues up front were settling on a spring rate and getting the magazines to present rounds in time reliably (thanks Beven). That said, it was a long path and I would only recommend it to someone really wanting to make the Glock platform work. If you want the absolute best gun you can get your mitts on for competition work, get a 2011 pattern one from S*I ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bberkley Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 Yes, it can be done and they can be made to run just fine. I started doing them kind ofby accident. Had a red dot, mount and ported barrel lying around, so put them on a G35. Been building and shooting major 9 G17's for almost 3 years now, with very few problems. Lightened slides, 4-8 port comps with a couple of blow holes, melted in Docter optics. Trigger work, a decent magwell, and your choice of grip treatment. Lately I've been playing with a accessory rail weight to bring the gun weight into the 32-26 oz. range. Seems to be working so far. You have to see these "FrankenGlocks", I haven't shot one of Bill's creations, but if I was doing it myself again, I would be talking to Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamann Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 Yes, it can be done and they can be made to run just fine. I started doing them kind of by accident. Had a red dot, mount and ported barrel lying around, so put them on a G35. Been building and shooting major 9 G17's for almost 3 years now, with very few problems. Lightened slides, 4-8 port comps with a couple of blow holes, melted in Docter optics. Trigger work, a decent magwell, and your choice of grip treatment. Lately I've been playing with a accessory rail weight to bring the gun weight into the 32-26 oz. range. Seems to be working so far. You have to see these "FrankenGlocks", I haven't shot one of Bill's creations, but if I was doing it myself again, I would be talking to Bill. Agreed, Bill Marrs is the man. From what i've seen, his open 17's absolutely perform shot after shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamann Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 I played around in open a little with my 34. I dropped a Storm Lake 6 port barrel in it, added a JPoint with cheap mount, and bolted on a THE brass magwell. It was ok, but I would probably rather have a open 17 like Bill builds. Mine was ok with reduced muzzle flip, but not much for recoil. I put it back to production with CGR Race Cut Heine, Dawson FO front, RS trigger, and left the Tungsten ext. guide rod w/ ISMI 13lb spring in shooting minor right at 130 PF. Suites me better at this time in my limited ISPC experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryucasta Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 I would not hesitate to use them in either Steel, Bianchi, GSSF or IPSC/USPSA Minor competition. Now when it comes to 9x19 Major loads I would prefer a wide bodied 1911 since I have a little more cartridge OAL to work with on that platform than I do with a Glock 17 frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suburban Commando Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 (edited) I've been reading a lot here, but haven't registered until just now. I think I might have something to contribute. Got back from a steel match a couple hours ago. Had I realized that the trigger safety was keeping the trigger from resetting after unloading, I would have done really well and might have won some money. The Glock and I shot real well against the steel single actions. Noone made fun of my Tupperware pistol today, or told me I shouldn't be bending my elbows. Match director mixed up the course this time. Much to my surprise, I had NO trouble with the ram silhouette at 40 yards. My 25 yard groups off the bench usually look like shotgun patterns, I must shoot better offhand. Need to try some lighter recoil springs and maybe lengthen the ejector. Maybe ditch the mount and tube sight for a JPoint. Even with the Carver Hunter mount, I've still got brass boucing back into the ejection port. Don't really need a fitted barrel and comp, but getting eliminated in the 1st or 2nd round of head-to-head shooting stinks, so I'll probably do it. I'm pretty new to this "action shooting" stuff. Haven't shot IPSC or USPSA, just the local steel and pin matches. Can't beat the really good shooters yet, but I might have a chance next spring with some more practice. For anyone interested in the details of the pistol: Glock 17 Vanek Production trigger kit Removed most of the over-travel with epoxy without compromising safeties, filed trigger safety to work Carver 30mm Hunter mount Tasco ProPoint 2 JP mag funnel, which I didn't need for this match Lone Wolf extended mag catch, slide catch still stock for now Shot UMC 115 grain for the match, and plinked with Blaser Brass afterward The trigger is pretty sweet with most of the pre-travel and over-travel adjusted out. There's still some creep, but not much, and I don't really notice it at speed. The pre-travel with the Vanek production kit is nearly indistinguishable from the creep, so shooting from reset seems like a traditional double action, with a longer pull for the first shot. Edited August 27, 2006 by Suburban Commando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruStreet Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Any one have a picture of Bill Marrs' work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveM Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Mike I hope I've got the right guy but if you're in the Mt. Vernon area PM me. I've got access to a G17 open gun and a box of major loads if you want to try one. I think you've seen the G-17 that I put together. It had a KKM fitted barrel and a Doctor sight. I used a Stainless guide rod from CGR and a Taylor 170 mm extension. I tried it for a while then someone let me shoot a STI grandmaster and I decided there was no point. That's just my opinion someone else may do great with it. I thought the gun was OK but the sight was just not as good a a C-more and I didn't want to go through the hassle of trying to get a C-more to stay on and function. I think if you use a frame mount on a glock you probably need to tighten the slide to get a real accurate gun mine was very very sloppy, but it had 20,000 rounds through it as a production gun before it got made into an open gun. I didn't have any functioning problems but it took very very carefull reloading and load development to get a load short enough to work and still make major at a pressure level I was comfortable with. I think I ended up with 8.7 gr of VV3N38 and a 124 gr. You have to work up real carefull just a little seating depth variance or using a bullet with a little different bearing surface can put it over the top. I just couldn't seem to track the dot real well. As far as the gun shooting flat It may have had a little more recoil but not any great difference. I just couldn't see that well. I ended up selling it to my dad. He's using it with minor loads for steel mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscott Posted August 28, 2006 Author Share Posted August 28, 2006 Yea, Dave, I'm the right guy. I just thought I'd get a few more opinions since yours is the only one I knew of and I knew of the issues you ran into. I plan on asking Bob about running a few through it next time we're out. It's not a real priority yet, but I am doing as much research as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveM Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Yea, Dave, I'm the right guy. I just thought I'd get a few more opinions since yours is the only one I knew of and I knew of the issues you ran into. I plan on asking Bob about running a few through it next time we're out. It's not a real priority yet, but I am doing as much research as I can. Just let me know because I think I've still got all the major loads. Dad is not interested in major 9 he's just using it for steel. You need the full house loads to get a real feel for it. I'll mention it to him and see if he cares if you run a couple mags of major loads through it. It did have a bent locking block pin he had to replace. I don't know if that was the 1000 rounds of major or the 19,000 standard 9mm loads that did that though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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