9mm Over .38 Super?

[steel1212]

I guess this would come down to preferance then. I'm not going out and buying an open gun today, I was just curious. Hell I've never even fired a 38 super! Guess I opened one of those, which is better AK or AR.

[Radical Precision Designs]

On the average most 'smiths will err on the side of "latitude", and recommend the .38 Super/Comp/9X23.

Lost brass is a very big issue for many. Locally many shooters here have matches every Thursday night ... outdoors, in varying growth of grass, and not so great lighting, mixed with all kinds of other mixed brass/junk. You'd need to be a hardcore scrounger to get your brass back in any numbers. Although I usually see some "bucket brigade" members out there, even in muddy conditions .

Even though I shoot 9mm Major, often I pick up some of it at indoor ranges that do not mind my picking up the brass behind me. Heck, sometimes I even pick up some "nice once fired" from others to make up for some of the brass that went forward into the firing line. ( It is very hard to find any "once fired" .38 Super left behind at indoor ranges, although one time "the Jamaican Team" was practicing before a big match nearby and left a couple of big piles behind at a local range, so I bribed the range owner...)

I really wonder how many 9 Major shooters buy new brass to start with. And, I don't mean buying new "loaded" brass, cheaply like the "white box" at Wally World. Hey, how come the .38 Super "white box" ain't cheap to buy, and how come they (white box people) don't make it in .38 Supercomp? Maybe it's a conspiracy started by 9 Major shooters?

Edited July 29, 2006 by Radical Precision Designs

[MarkS_A18138]

Man i am glade i live on the boarder!!!!! Tracy is able to pickup once fired 38 super brass at our indoor almost everyday. Got to love the fact that 38 super is the number one round in mexico. Tracy shoots a 38super and Shea shoots a 9mm both major both work 100%! Shea like watching Mom look for brass!

Shoot whatever you want! 9mm if can have a local conection with the PD! Free brass!!!!

[warpspeed]

To answer your original question, I went to it for simplicty.

I load 9mm on a Dillon 1050. I shoot 9mm for steel so it is easy to switch powder measure, adjust the seating die and load the other one - 9major or 9minor.

Yes, not having to scrounge brass is a plus. Being able to load 5K rounds at a time is also nice. 5K of 9x19 brass is maybe $ 60. 5K of the 38 super variants is $ 500. That is the savings I see.

I don't buy the fewer options thing. I use 124 gr MG's & VV N350 with excellent results. From what I seen this combo is also popular with the 38 super guys. A few use 115's but I like the 124 myself.

Again, one less caliber to load. From what I've been told switching calibers on the 1050 is a royal PITA.

[jjanglin]

I do build quite a few 9mm open guns and when I range test them I pick

up the brass and some guys give it to me so I usually have plenty to test with.

I shoot mostly limited anymore , I have a couple of open guns 38 super and 9x23

I take one along to the range now and then and I like the 38 super much better

than 9mm open , the feel of the 9mm never has set well with me and I think its

mostly what a fella gets used too. and the 38 super is less quirky than the

9mm I feel. Ive never had a 38 super case seperate and leave pieces of brass

in my forhead I have with 9mm just a couple of times tho and thats enough

for me not to like them all that well. My 38 super is real loud I like that cause

it gets some complaints about being obnoxious,my 9x25 was kinda like that

too.

9mm open to me is just not a likeable gun too shoot.!!

Jim

Sailors custom

[smokshwn]

Warpspeed,

You make a good point of being able to load a large quantity of rounds at once. I hate to reload on a consistent basis so I would rather sit and load once a month (I have about 4k setting on the bench right now) instead of loading every week.

[Azone41]

Being able to load up lots of rounds is a very valid point. I reload almost every week. I always have about a 1000 for each gun loaded just in case something happens to my reloader and I have to get parts.

Hi Mark how are you and Tracy doin? Hope to see yall at Doubletap next year.

Edited July 30, 2006 by Azone41

[Harmon]

most of the time when your low on brass, you just cant pick up supercomp brass off the range. you gotta order it.

[gino_aki]

Sort of a thread drift but if you're NOT helping to pick up the brass at our range, strange things might happen to your shooting bag. So going 9mm at our club in Open would be a moot point as far as brass collection is concerned. However, for our production shooters, 9mm seems to be as precious as any other caliber.

[A38337]

I went with 9mm for my Bedell open gun.

Works great!

I buy once fired brass for about $16 per k from Midway and load it on a 1050.

No problems and no bad pressure signs. I'm using 7.8 grains of 3N37, oal is 1.165 with either 124MG or 125 Zero.

I pickup my brass (practice and match) and reload it. At "lost brass" matches I don't care a bit about losing the brass.

[spd522]

I switched my Para 38 Super Open gun to 9mm last year and love it. My experience is that it actually runs better than the Super because I don't get that occasional rough rim that seems to hang a round in the mag when feeding. I have shot more Major 9 loads out of this gun in the past year than 38 Supers in the previous 8 years and reliability has been better with the 9mm.

Cost was a factor for me as I get all the once fired 9mm brass I need for free. So I no longer bother picking up brass like I used to with the Super. It's not a problem at the clubs I shoot at as there are always brass scroungers to clean up the remains.

Some of the brass has been reloaded several times as I do pickup and reload the brass I shoot in my backyard. So far, never had a blown or split case with 9mm.

The other bonus is I switch my recoil spring to a 7# and shoot regular 9mm ( even Blazers) out of my Open gun for steel matches without changing anything else.

Now if I had an STI/SV gun and had to jerk around with spacers and high dollar tuning to get it to work with Major 9s, I might just stick with the Super. But the Para 9mm mags work for both 9mm and 38 super without tuning so it's a simple choice for me.

[Jake Di Vita]

I shoot Open, and I use supercomp brass. I also know that even though the open gun is around 2500 - 3k, but the reason I am not practicing at all right now is I simply can't afford the brass.

[al503]

I shoot Open, and I use supercomp brass. I also know that even though the open gun is around 2500 - 3k, but the reason I am not practicing at all right now is I simply can't afford the brass.

Jake, you should have a brass sponsor.

[Jake Di Vita]

Yeah that would be nice.

[Loves2Shoot]

Most all the open guns I see puking lately are 9mm...

I can think of 3 guys at the last match who are GM-M shooters who wish is was worth it. I don't have the $ to mess with it to find out for myself, it just the aungish I hear from those trying to save $ on brass. Very good shooters too.

If I was going to shoot 9mm major I would do it in a Tangfolio (EAA.)

[SteveHarris]

I understand that all the newer STI and SVI super barrels are for 3.55 9mm bullets. So.... now the current bullet selection is the same.

I guess I'm not a seagull because I don’t pick brass. One reason is I’ve had some bad luck with range brass and I like matching head stamps. I like to buy, in bulk, once fired matched 9mm brass, inspect, size, prime and ready to finish loading in 1k batches as needed. (I don’t like to change a load and still have a ton of older finished ammo.) Loading with pre-sized and primed brass is fast and fun ;-)

My STI Trubor runs 9mm major like a Rolex so why would I even consider a super???

Edited August 8, 2006 by SteveHarris

[smokshwn]

Most all the open guns I see puking lately are 9mm...

Not to pick on you personally but it amazes me that whenever a 9mm gun has a problem it is automatically assumed it is due to the cartridge choice. However when open guns in super puke it is just seen as a gun problem that needs to be solved. There is no raging mob with pitchforks and torches chanting about the cartridge.

[spd522]

Most all the open guns I see puking lately are 9mm...

Not to pick on you personally but it amazes me that whenever a 9mm gun has a problem it is automatically assumed it is due to the cartridge choice. However when open guns in super puke it is just seen as a gun problem that needs to be solved. There is no raging mob with pitchforks and torches chanting about the cartridge.

Been my experience too.

[AWARE2005]

Ive been shooting 9mm major out of a gun chambered in 38 super for a year with no major issues. I did have one round drop into the chamber too far to be extracted once, and had to poke it out with a pen. After examining the case, even if I had a proper 9x19 chamber at the time I would have had issues becasue the entire rim of the case was gone. Some people get all hyped up about head spacing off the breechface instead of the chamber edge,,,,,,,think about it it really doesnt matter. The round is held on the breechface with the extractor in ANY caliber, and when you pull the trigger the round is fully seated to the breechface no matter how tight or long your chamber is...its basic physics. I would bet that less than one one thousandth of a percet of your ammo actually touches the end of the chamber before you pull the trigger. Its more likely your bullet partially seats in the rifling first. Its basically the same as shooting 38 special in your 357,,,,,as long as you have of hold of the case to get it back out somehow, it doesnt matter where the front is for the most part.

I tried 9mm major becasue my gun was finicky with range brass. I could not count on even 80% reliability with brass that was not brand new. So I tried a friends 9mm ammo on a whim, and it worked flawlessly. So I started laoding some and experimenting. The tapered case of the 9x19 functions and chambers more reliably than the straight wall 38 super. Also if your using a Caspian Hi Cap, the mags work flawlessly in 9mm major. And you dont ever have to worry about double charging a case, becasue they are double charged to begin with and you cannot physically fit any more powder into them when reloading.

The down side is that if you do loose a round off the extractor, you are not goign to be able to rack the slide and get it out. your going to have to poke it out from the other end. Also, the accuracy does suffer. At this weekends past 2006 AWARE, Amy Sayers from Caspian Arms shot my gun using .38 super ammo (all in brand new brass). It drove tacks, when I shot the gun 2 days later with 9mm major ammo, the best I could do was about a 4" group at 30 yards. The 1/4" plus of freebore does make an accuracy differance, but not in functionality.

This morning I was able to get a true 9x19 AET barrel shipped out from Wil Schuemann. For the record the reason for the barrel change is for accuracy, not function. Its not about the money, the cost of the new barrel is probably more than the cost differance between 9mm and 38 super brass for a dozen years. It come down to using what works. One more thing...Casoain does have a 9mm caliber spcific extractor. The claw for the case rim is properly dimentioned to grip the 9mm case family of cartridges. The groove in a 38 supoer extractor is slightly larger, and although it does work, the true 9mm extractor fits better.

[GTOSHootr]

...it amazes me that whenever a 9mm gun has a problem it is automatically assumed it is due to the cartridge choice.

That's funny, I had my first real gun breakage in a match this past weekend, my barrel link broke. I think the first thing someone said to me is that I should switch from 9 to Super. I'm no expert, maybe he was right, but I'm going to stick it out a while longer with it. Ironically, it was Scott (Aware2005) that cleared my locked-up gun and approved a replacement.

[Loves2Shoot]

Most all the open guns I see puking lately are 9mm...

Not to pick on you personally but it amazes me that whenever a 9mm gun has a problem it is automatically assumed it is due to the cartridge choice. However when open guns in super puke it is just seen as a gun problem that needs to be solved. There is no raging mob with pitchforks and torches chanting about the cartridge.

Not a judgement, just an observation...

These guys are some very good shooters, so is it the ammo or the gun, I don't know. Just passin' on what I've seen. They might have the same problems with supers too.

It seems it may, or may not, be nirvana.

Edited August 9, 2006 by Loves2Shoot

[smokshwn]

No I was just using your statement to make a point.

Even on the board you can do a search and see all kinds of threads where any given malfunction is blamed on the 9mm cartridge where as there can be a similar thread about the same malfunction in Super yet noone even considers the cartridge.

I'm not a nirvana guy just one who thinks that if your gun is built and set up correctly the difference between these two cartridge choices is academic.

[Loves2Shoot]

I know length can be an issue, but it would be cool to have a 9mm builder chime in.

[smokshwn]

Ask and ye shall receive, Dan, Jim, and Bob chime in here:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=25645&hl=

[A38337]

My 9mm major Bedell gun runs great.

Brass is cheap, but I pick it up anyway to reload it (have a batch of 200 cases on their 5th loading now). Just don't feel bad about loosing a few hundred at a lost brass match.

1.165 oal

124 MG CMJ, 124 MG JHP, and also 125 Zero JHP

7.8 3N37

WSP