Blade-tech D.o.holster In S.s. Division

[MWGDVC]

In my opinion The premise of the question is wrong. Instead of creating an "approved holster" list, which if memory serves, USPSA attempted and abandoned in the late seventies, and if I am correctly informed, IDPA has more recently abandoned, USPSA should instead create measurable, defined specifications for holsters to be used within the division. This way if a custom holster maker wants to make a holster, or a competitor wants to modify an existing holster, the holster itself will either meet specification or move the competitor into the appropriate division.

This also eliminates the ugly spectre of nepotisim in getting a holster approved. I am told IDPA recently had a situation wherein a holster manufactured for a distributor (which was also marketed under another name)was either approved or disapproved not for dimensional differences but solely on which stamp was rolled upon the holster.

Equipment rules in USPSA should be guidelines to determine the best equipment features for a particular shooter within the confines of the rules established.

[GeorgeInNePa]

In my opinion The premise of the question is wrong. Instead of creating an "approved holster" list, which if memory serves, USPSA attempted and abandoned in the late seventies, and if I am correctly informed, IDPA has more recently abandoned, USPSA should instead create measurable, defined specifications for holsters to be used within the division. This way if a custom holster maker wants to make a holster, or a competitor wants to modify an existing holster, the holster itself will either meet specification or move the competitor into the appropriate division.

This also eliminates the ugly spectre of nepotisim in getting a holster approved. I am told IDPA recently had a situation wherein a holster manufactured for a distributor (which was also marketed under another name)was either approved or disapproved not for dimensional differences but solely on which stamp was rolled upon the holster.

Equipment rules in USPSA should be guidelines to determine the best equipment features for a particular shooter within the confines of the rules established.

There are clear rules that govern the holsters used in both Single Stack and Production. They are very easy to follow:

5.2.7 Competitors must not be permitted to commence a course of fire

wearing:

5.2.7.1 A shoulder holster or “tie-down” rig (visible or otherwise),

except as specified in Rule 5.2.8,

5.2.7.2 A holster with the heel of the butt of the handgun below the

top of the belt, except as specified in Rule 5.2.8,

5.2.7.3 A holster with the muzzle of the handgun pointing further

than 1 meter (3.28 feet) from the competitor’s feet while

standing relaxed,

5.2.7.4 A holster which does not completely prevent access to, or

activation of, the trigger of the handgun while holstered.

US Apendix D (Production):

10. Max. distance of handgun and mags/speed loaders from torso=50mm

23. Competition holsters of the race gun type specifically not allowed. For clarification:

ALL retention features of the holster MUST be used. All holsters must fully

cover the trigger when the pistol is holstered. The front of holsters for autos

may be cut no lower than ¼-inch below the ejection port.

Single Stack rules:

Competition holsters of the race gun type specifically not allowed. For clarification, all

retention features of the holster must be used. All holsters must fully cover the trigger

when the pistol is holstered. The front of the holster may be cut no lower than ¼ inch

below the ejection port.

The only thing I find a little goofy is the suggestion that the mag carriers should be of the "carry" type, "Magazine pouches should be designed for continuous daily carry and should be reasonably concealable." Seems too IDPAish to me.

[simonsay]

5.2.7.2 A holster with the heel of the butt of the handgun below the

top of the belt, except as specified in Rule 5.2.8,

Is this one highlighted because this rule is broken with the doh? My 1911 in my doh seems ok.

[GeorgeInNePa]

5.2.7.2 A holster with the heel of the butt of the handgun below the

top of the belt, except as specified in Rule 5.2.8,

Is this one highlighted because this rule is broken with the doh? My 1911 in my doh seems ok.

No, I highlighted that because the DOH complies with that rule. Sorry for the confusion.

Some people feel the DOH sits to low, but it complies with the rules.

[simonsay]

No, I highlighted that because the DOH complies with that rule. Sorry for the confusion.

Some people feel the DOH sits to low, but it complies with the rules.

got it.

[cliffy109]

I voted no for a very selfish reason. I shoot IDPA and I don't want to buy another holster.

[Bob Hostetter]

Why would you have to buy another holster? As long as the holster you are using is safe and secure, and you can draw from it quickly why would you have to replace it. I have been using the same holster in SS that I use in IDPA, can keep my draw around 1 second, and so don't care if its approved or not..............

[cliffy109]

Why would you have to buy another holster? As long as the holster you are using is safe and secure, and you can draw from it quickly why would you have to replace it. I have been using the same holster in SS that I use in IDPA, can keep my draw around 1 second, and so don't care if its approved or not..............

Oh I'm not looking to replace my IDPA holster. I just know I'm slightly faster with the DOH. If its legal, I'm going to have to buy one. Just the kind of guy I am.

[simonsay]

Why would you have to buy another holster? ........

Oh I'm not looking to replace my IDPA holster. I just know I'm slightly faster with the DOH.

If I shot both IDPA and USPSA with the same gun, I'd use the same holster. I don't see any/enough advantage with the DOH over a good gamey IDPA legal kydex rig to justify having two different draws. Just $.02

[MWGDVC]

Why would you have to buy another holster? ........

Oh I'm not looking to replace my IDPA holster. I just know I'm slightly faster with the DOH.

If I shot both IDPA and USPSA with the same gun, I'd use the same holster. I don't see any/enough advantage with the DOH over a good gamey IDPA legal kydex rig to justify having two different draws. Just $.02

I agree with somonsay. The draw speed is a larger factor in IDPA, as the average IPSC stage meets or exceeds the max round count for IDPA.

Edited June 28, 2006 by MWGDVC

[bruce282]

If I shot both IDPA and USPSA with the same gun, I'd use the same holster. I don't see any/enough advantage with the DOH over a good gamey IDPA legal kydex rig to justify having two different draws. Just $.02

I'm shooting my Glock 17 in both IPDA and USPSA right now. Broke down and bought the new version Bladetech IDPA legal belt holster, along with the DOH attachment for USPSA. I found out I more consistent right now using just the normal belt attachment, the pistol is always in the same place and my hand grabs the grip the same way each time. Over the winter I'll practice a bunch with the DOH version and see what happens.

Bruce

Edited June 29, 2006 by bruce282

[Trey1975]

I don't think that USPSA should try to "Combine" with the Single Stack Society. I believe that USPSA can gain a lot of insite and guidance from them but USPSA needs to stand on its own with its own rules regarding S.S. division.

I also agree....this is USPSA S.S Division!

[RickB]

Why can't the DOH holster be legal for every match but the SSC? I'd say the SSC is "bigger" than USPSA's provisional national championship, and it's sort of letting the tail wag the dog if the rules for the (very successful) SSC change for three years, only to then go back to what they were, if SS division fails.

Back in the day, when CART ran the major open-wheeled racing series in the US, they still had to run the Indy 500 under USAC rules; even though the race counted toward the CART championship, it was not run under CART rules, as USAC had the sanctioning contract. Even those CART guys were smart enough to figure out that their championship didn't mean beans if it didn't include the Indy 500.

[NODAK]

All, yes or no is it legal at the Nats or not

Confused

[ima45dv8]

See Appendix D5, item 20 of your rulebook.

[G-ManBart]

In my opinion The premise of the question is wrong. Instead of creating an "approved holster" list, which if memory serves, USPSA attempted and abandoned in the late seventies, and if I am correctly informed, IDPA has more recently abandoned, USPSA should instead create measurable, defined specifications for holsters to be used within the division. This way if a custom holster maker wants to make a holster, or a competitor wants to modify an existing holster, the holster itself will either meet specification or move the competitor into the appropriate division.

This also eliminates the ugly spectre of nepotisim in getting a holster approved. I am told IDPA recently had a situation wherein a holster manufactured for a distributor (which was also marketed under another name)was either approved or disapproved not for dimensional differences but solely on which stamp was rolled upon the holster.

Equipment rules in USPSA should be guidelines to determine the best equipment features for a particular shooter within the confines of the rules established.

There are clear rules that govern the holsters used in both Single Stack and Production. They are very easy to follow:

5.2.7 Competitors must not be permitted to commence a course of fire

wearing:

5.2.7.1 A shoulder holster or “tie-down” rig (visible or otherwise),

except as specified in Rule 5.2.8,

5.2.7.2 A holster with the heel of the butt of the handgun below the

top of the belt, except as specified in Rule 5.2.8,

5.2.7.3 A holster with the muzzle of the handgun pointing further

than 1 meter (3.28 feet) from the competitor’s feet while

standing relaxed,

5.2.7.4 A holster which does not completely prevent access to, or

activation of, the trigger of the handgun while holstered.

US Apendix D (Production):

10. Max. distance of handgun and mags/speed loaders from torso=50mm

23. Competition holsters of the race gun type specifically not allowed. For clarification:

ALL retention features of the holster MUST be used. All holsters must fully

cover the trigger when the pistol is holstered. The front of holsters for autos

may be cut no lower than ¼-inch below the ejection port.

Single Stack rules:

Competition holsters of the race gun type specifically not allowed. For clarification, all

retention features of the holster must be used. All holsters must fully cover the trigger

when the pistol is holstered. The front of the holster may be cut no lower than ¼ inch

below the ejection port.

The only thing I find a little goofy is the suggestion that the mag carriers should be of the "carry" type, "Magazine pouches should be designed for continuous daily carry and should be reasonably concealable." Seems too IDPAish to me.

For SS, the DOH doesn't comply with the one part you left out:

•Must carry pistol so that the entire front strap (to the

trigger guard) is at or above the top of the belt.

Female shooters must carry the pistol no lower than

the heel of the butt at the top of the belt.

[Joe4d]

I voted I really dont care, I shot a few single stack matches waiting for my limited classifiers to post ( I normally shoot 22+1). I felt like a one legged man at an ass kicking contest. Speed and efficiency of reloads is way more important than draws, I know guys that can hit an 8" plate from 12 yards from a pancake style leather holster in under a second. The time difference and speed from a DOH, or standard Kydex, or a race style holster wont amount to a hill of beans. In addition to cover the trigger, the only other holster rule we should have is one we dont, It holds the gun. It just doesnt matter.

[G-ManBart]

I say no for the DOH in SS. To a certain degree, SS is about carry style guns and "tradition". Having the gun dropped down with a DOH really doesn't fit with either.

Regardless of that, if you change the rules now, after lots of people have geared up for SS in the last couple of years, you're going to piss off a lot of them because they'll think they have to get a DOH (or similar) to be competitive because a dropped holster is "faster". Yeah, it might be a little bit, but we know it doesn't matter whether it really is or not....just whether people think it is.

When you boil it down to the basics, it's not like there's somebody out there that won't shoot SS because of the holster rules, so it's not keeping anybody out. Allowing the DOH isn't going to suddenly cause more people to want to shoot SS, so it really doesn't benefit the sport or the division. If there's someone out there with a killer L-10 rig using a single stack gun it's not like buying a different holster is going to keep them away from SS....we're talking $50-75 for most of the popular SS holsters....trivial considering what most of us spend on the sport. R,

[Corey]

Ive got a DOH that Im going to be using for SS this year. I just took the DOH part off of it, haha. I guess i really dont care one way or the other as Im new to the sport. I gotta get used to something, no preference as to which yet.

[bbbean]

Why fix what ain't broke?

[Nik Habicht]

I say no for the DOH in SS. To a certain degree, SS is about carry style guns and "tradition". Having the gun dropped down with a DOH really doesn't fit with either.

Fixed it for ya:

To a certain degree, SS is about carry style guns 1911s and "tradition".

If it was really about carry style guns, other blasters could play..... :D

Back to original topic:

I think SS works (or doesn't depending on location) as written. I don't think a holster change will increase participation in those parts of the country where it's not being vigorously contested....

[triplesinglestack]

I just got done participating in the WSSSC a few weeks ago in Phoenix, and do not feel it would have been an advantage to have the DOH like previously mentioned there are enough gun on table/surrender starts that it would not make much difference, but if it is allowed in production......maybe it should be in SS also either way I don't think if I was allowed to shoot Open at the SS match I could have beaten Taran, Rob, Angus........you get the idea

Jason

[open17]

DOH in SS----NO

Guns other than 1911 based in SS---NO

"Un-combine" the SS nats from the SSC match----YES

[ParaGunner]

Why fix what ain't broke?

+1

[Ed Deegan]

DOH in SS----NO

Guns other than 1911 based in SS---NO

"Un-combine" the SS nats from the SSC match----YES

I voted, took the don't care option. IMO it's not a big deal.

Agree that the single stack classic should be 1911 single stacks.

Absolutely agree with "un-combining" the nationals. The nationals should be the nationals, for ALL of our divisions.