cliffy109

The "combined results" is the only way a single stack shooter can figure out how he's really doing. There are so few competitors in this division that I often have to look at the combined totals to see how I did against guys that I know are roughly at the same level as I am. I realize and understand that its not a perfect way to compare results as the guys in the other divisions have a capacity advantage, but I at least get an idea. Its not just a tool for SSD guys either. If two fairly evenly matched competitors want to see how they did against each other and one is shooting L10 and the other is Production, the combined results make that easy. Its just a handy tool to use in judging your individual performance against others outside your division. I like it.

Sure they do. Its the same place a guy with a Sig 225, HK P7M8 or any other lower capacity gun would play. That is, L10 or production. Yes, they'll be at a handicap but at least you have more consistent rules. Production doesn't allow extended mags for these guns so why should L10? There really are not that many single stack 1911s that don't fit into SSD anyway.

I'd love to see Single Stack, really be for single stacks, regardless of what the configuration is. I think having a 1911 division is counterproductive to bringing in more shooters. There are plenty of Sig 220 owners who would love a vanue to be competitive. The same can be said of owners of guns like the P7M8, various S&Ws and there are a number of new guns coming out soon like the HK45 and even a rumor of a single stack Glock. Why not bring those people into the sport in a competitive manner? Yes, they could shoot L10, but at a disadvantage in capacity. I'm a 1911 fanatic, but I would be quite happy to compete against other platforms of similar capabilities.

Well, its easy for me to leave well enough alone. I'm just a C class shooter who isn't part of the decision making process for USPSA. Just as you're self interest is to keep as many shooters in L10, mine is to get more into SSD. I want the competition. I think eliminating the 170mm mag exception would do that and would keep things a lot cleaner in the rules. There really isn't a rational reason to allow single stack shooters to have longer mags except to remain competitive against guys running race guns with race gear. I didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest. It was not my intention to gore anybody's ox. My suggestion was just an observation about what I see as an impediment to getting more people in the SS division.

If that comment is directed at me, I apologize. I enjoy shooting single stack. I would like to continue shooting it. Its frustrating to be one of only 3 or 4 people at a match with 100 people at it and see perhaps another 10-12 walking around with 10 round 1911 mags. The division is doomed if we can't draw more people into it.

Which is just another way of eliminating Limited10. I'll propose a different idea! Let's eliminate SS and move those shooters into the Limited10 division! Not very original, huh? Or maybe both can peacefully coexist and no one would have to feel like *their* division is the one that got speared. How would that eliminate L10? The widebody guns still would run in L10 and anybody who lives behind enemy lines who still has a magazine capacity limit would be unaffected. Glock 21s, HK USPs and CZs would still compete in L10. It would just move single stack shooters into the single stack division. What sense does the exception make anyway? Why does it exist? Is it so single stack shooters can be competitive? Well, now single stacks have their own division so there's no need to make accomodations for them in L10.

Well, if nobody's shooting it, it will never make it out of the provisional status.

I shot SSD for the first half of the year and finally gave up. There just are not enough other shooters to make it fun. At the VA-MD Secional, we had exactly 4 shooters. I switched to L10 and that's what I shot the rest of the year. I think I've figured out how to get more shooters into this division. Eliminate the magazine length exception for single stack guns in L10. That would leave the race gun shooters alone but would move the single stack shooters into the correct division. I assume that rule was put into place to allow owners of single stacks to be competitive since they would be outclassed in L10 otherwise. Well, now there there's a specific division for single stack guns, that rule is obsolete.

Here is my totally selfish view of things. I would prefer to shoot single stack. I enjoy it and like the challenge. What I don't like is the complete lack of competition. In the small club matches, I'm usually one of two who shoot it. In the larger monthly matches, I'm one of 3 or 4. Even in a big Sectional, there were only 4 SS shooters and one of those was a Grand Master. It doesn't offer much chance for a C class shooter to develop and judge his performance against others with similar guns and gear. I got tired of it and have switched to L10. I don't like it as much and feel like I'm in more of a gear competition against guys with gaping mag wells, heavy guns with dust covers and speed holsters of all sorts. I have no idea why most of these guys are not just shooting Limited anyway. At least there are a few guys with single stack pistols with 10 round magazines hanging out the bottom. What I would like is to grow the SS division. There are three things that would accomplish this: 1. Allow other single stack guns such as the Sig 220 and the S&W. It doesn't need to be a 1911 only division. 2. Eliminate the rule that allows 170mm magazines for single stack guns in L10. That will move those shooters into the SS division. 3. Stop this whole "provisional" madness where shooting classifiers in SS don't get recorded. Yeah, I know... those scores are kept and will be applied if it goes mainstream, but I think a lot of people, myself included, need to be able to track our progress with the classifiers. Sure there are ways to deal with this, but they are more hassle than they are worth. Just post the scores.

Next month is the MD-VA Regional, a level 3 match. There are exactly 3 of us signed up for Single Stack thus far. One is a Grand Master, I am C class and there is one D class shooter. Very disappointing.

I think this is the best post in this entire thread. Rules are rules and need to be followed, but when there is ambiguity, common sense needs to take over. That means looking at the context and reactions. I can think of a number of situations where the shooter could sweep the SO and be 100% without fault. In these situations, the shooter shoud not only get a re-shoot, he should get a medal for keeping the SO safe. Picture this... Right handed shooter backing up, engaging a target that is 60 degrees off to his left while backing up. The SO is on his right and not backing up quickly enough. After engaging the left target, the next target is 60 degrees to the right of the centerline of the shooter's path. The SO is 30 degrees behind the shooter's 180 (not the range 180. I'm talking about 180 degrees worth of the shooter's vision) while he engages the left target and there is no way he could see him. As he swings to the right target, he may be moving fast enough to sweep him with the muzzle, but if he's following the rules of gun safety, he doesn't press the trigger. That's an example of the shooter doing everything right and being blameless. Now, let's say the targets are a lot closer together. The shooter blows by the SO and can (of should) see the SO out of the of his vision. He ignores this and swings to engage a target and end up pointing at the SO but doesn't shoot. That is the shooters fault and deserves a DQ. I wasn't there. I don't know eactly what happened. I'm glad everybody came out alive and healthy. It sounds like the MD made a judgement call based on the fact and circumstances. That is what should be done.

Oh I'm not looking to replace my IDPA holster. I just know I'm slightly faster with the DOH. If its legal, I'm going to have to buy one. Just the kind of guy I am.

Do you mind me asking why you want to work on your L10 classification? I do too and my reason is because I want to actually see my classification. By the way... the 9 and 10 shot arrays are not so difficult if you're shooting against others shooting 8 round mags. It takes a mental adjustment to get over the fact that L10 and production shooters are going to have faster times due to thier capacity. Its far less annoying if there are a number of you shooting SS.

I've done that a couple of times during the smaller matches at the indoor range. They're pretty good about that. At the larger match, this just isn't a possibility. Besides that, I'm not sure how fair it is to the other shooters. They paid the same fee I did and got to shoot it once. I always feel bad about asking even though they don't seem to mind. I actually wonder if this is why there are not more SS shooters at the larger matches. There are a number of L10 shooters with 1911s at these and I can't think of any other reason they would not shoot SS.

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