USPSA Revolver Division Rule Change

[Ice36]

On 9/7/2024 at 7:10 AM, gargoil66 said:

 

No matter how the question was worded and its intent, some guys are dead set against optics for revolvers.  To refine my question, and aside from the 'tradition' aspect, I ask why?

 

GG

When I talk to the guys that are no optic people, they all shoot revo because of the challenge of double action, iron sights and gun handling that comes with it and when you change one thing what else is next is always around the corner. just look at what happened after the 8 round change, 6 shot revos rarely get shot and stage design changed, not to say stages shouldn't change but they are very different now, seems like how many shots in one position is just a suggestion.

 

I personally would like them to figure out how to make 6 shot revo relevant again before adding something else

Edited September 8 by Ice36

[Joe4d]

well 30 -40 people at recent ICORE majors,, 5 pages of commentors on this page should go to an ICORE match. We have open , Limited (moon clips) Limited 6,, ( moonclips 6 shot,) and classic,, 6 shot speed loaders.
We also have a Big 6 ( major PF)  and 22 rimfire sub divisions. 

I noticed at the Midwest 68% were signed up as Senior or older and 1 JR... not a good sign..
You gotta be a super senior to get any heat.. LOL.

Many stages tend to be 6 shot neutral if you dont miss.
My favorite stages are the 3 paper 1 steel,, per position...
I sit back and watch everyone do a gazzillion walk throughs with there 6 and 8 shots trying to figure that one out,, while I stand therewith my 7 shot. 

[IVC]

It seems there is too much worry about the number of competitors per division. Why?

 

It's a match. A low participation division is akin to a category - it doesn't take away from the match or the overall participation. Stages are the same for all divisions and, after the foolishness of anti-rifle match designs, it's back to being a shooting game with whatever you brought. 

 

Ideally, we'd see a NEW division that would match steel challenge (a few posters pointed it out already in this thread). There is no reason to "ration divisions" based on participation as it is sure to make *some* people unhappy. The "I want irons" crowd and the "optics is the new irons" crowd cannot coexist in a single division and be happy. So why not have another item in the drop down list for divisions in PractiScore? It's trivial, it keeps everyone happy and people get to choose division they want to shoot - choose the one with more people for competition, choose the one that matches your blaster for practice or fun. Besides, revolver is likely to remain relevant as a secondary or "once in a while" division for shooters from other divisions, so matching their preferred sights can only help. 

 

Unfortunately, if the only choice is between adding optics to Revo and keeping it irons-only, my vote is to add optics (assuming it allows and does not require optics like C/O). Irons can still shoot and be very competitive, unlike forcing revolvers with optics into Open. 

[perttime]

3 hours ago, Ice36 said:

...

 

I personally would like them to figure out how to make 6 shot revo relevant again before adding something else

Lots of 6 shot shooters volunteering to design stages for matches

Still you are going to do a lot more reloading, shooting 6-guns vs. 8-guns.

-----------------

 

IPSC might be a little more low cap friendly, than USPSA, with rules mandating lots of short stages and not so many long ones.

The short stages at this weekend's Level 2 IPSC match at our club range had Short stages that were pretty much 6 vs. 8 shot neutral. The Medium and Long ones... not so much.

[Joe4d]

12 minutes ago, perttime said:

Lots of 6 shot shooters volunteering to design stages for matches

Still you are going to do a lot more reloading, shooting 6-guns vs. 8-guns.

-----------------

 

IPSC might be a little more low cap friendly, than USPSA, with rules mandating lots of short stages and not so many long ones.

The short stages at this weekend's Level 2 IPSC match at our club range had Short stages that were pretty much 6 vs. 8 shot neutral. The Medium and Long ones... not so much.

18 round stages,,,  everyone reloads twice, 6 7and 8.. easy peasy..

[PatJones]

8 hours ago, IVC said:

...my vote is to add optics (assuming it allows and does not require optics like C/O). Irons can still shoot and be very competitive, unlike forcing revolvers with optics into Open. 

Optics are an advantage, and this would make them required any time you're facing someone with a similar skill set. Local match with folks separated by 15%, no problems. Nationals would require a dot, especially at the pointy end of the match. 

 

I believe this change would reduce activity in revolver division. I believe folks are looking to cut divisions, and I think we're on the chopping block with L10. We cannot afford to lose more shooter activity in the division

 

 

[IVC]

L10 is a compliance division and I'll be the first to pop champagne when it's gone. It's a remnant from the dark days... Nobody thought "hey, let's have a low capacity Limited" because it's a great idea. And I initially shot L10 because... CA. 
 

Revolver is a completely different beast. It's like lightsaber vs. standard issue imperial blaster. Ok, more like an Ewok spear vs. an actual weapon, but still... It's something that people like shooting because it's so different. It's not about speed, it's about knowing how to use it. Like stick shift or double clutch...

[Chillywig]

I have a OSR from back in the days where we had local Icore club. I like to shoot OSR in steel challenge occasionally. Since uspsa and SC have the same management, I’m not sure why they're opposed to adding divisions. LO is has gotten very popular in USPSA and nonexistent in SC. Makes no sense. I would like to shoot my OSR in USPSA but having to do so in open seems stupid. What's the harm in adding more divisions? I want rimfire revolver irons an optics added to SC while we're at it. Since I live in a non commie state L10 is basically nonexistent. The only guys that seem to shoot L10 do so at bigger matches thinking they might win the division since they will probably be the only guy shooting in it

[MikeyScuba]

I would be up for adding an option to make revo a 2nd gun at a match like some do here for pcc.  Maybe on the same squad for smaller less well attended matches and on separate days for bigger ones.

 

The lack of competition for revo for me makes me shoot my open 2011 at L3's.

[PatJones]

5 hours ago, Chillywig said:

...Since uspsa and SC have the same management, I’m not sure why they're opposed to adding divisions... What's the harm in adding more divisions?

 

...The only guys that seem to shoot L10 do so at bigger matches thinking they might win the division since they will probably be the only guy shooting in it

As someone who doesn't shoot Steel Challenge, my impression is that there's so many divisions that they don't hold a lot of meaning. 

 

My experience has been that many shooters perceive revolver division like L10, where a win doesn't hold a lot of meaning. Adding divisions would only make this worse, I'm pretty sure that's not on the table.

[Joe4d]

5 hours ago, PatJones said:

As someone who doesn't shoot Steel Challenge, my impression is that there's so many divisions that they don't hold a lot of meaning. 

 

My experience has been that many shooters perceive revolver division like L10, where a win doesn't hold a lot of meaning. Adding divisions would only make this worse, I'm pretty sure that's not on the table.

steel challenge has lots of divisions that make no sense.. Obviously set up by people that dont shoot steel challenge.  I mean they have divisions that allow or dont allow mag funnels, mag capacities, and compensators in a game that doesnt have any power factor requirements and is only 5 round strings.
I mean there are 5,, with probably soon to be 6 centerfire pistol divisions that could be simplified to optics and irons...
But from the few matches I shot,, yeh alot of new shooters with 22 carbines, and pretty much the rest just looking at the overalls.... I mean granted Icore is pretty much the same.

 

Edited September 10 by Joe4d

[Chillywig]

Are there any revolver shooters in PCSL matches? We go from too many divisions to too few. 

 

I wonder if golfers complain about how many types of wedges there are 

[gargoil66]

11 hours ago, Chillywig said:

Are there any revolver shooters in PCSL matches? We go from too many divisions to too few. 

 

I wonder if golfers complain about how many types of wedges there are 

CW:

 

Better question would be "are there any PCSL matches?"

 

GG

[matteekay]

1 hour ago, gargoil66 said:

CW:

 

Better question would be "are there any PCSL matches?"

 

GG

 

Shot one last weekend. Hell of a lot of fun (the K-zone bailed me out at least twice).

 

There's another on Saturday, 2-Gun this time. I'll probably shoot IDPA instead as I don't want to bring my SBR behind enemy lines.

[JohnZ]

13 hours ago, Chillywig said:

Are there any revolver shooters in PCSL matches? We go from too many divisions to too few. 

 

I wonder if golfers complain about how many types of wedges there are 

I shoot my 686 cut for moon clips in PCSL at our local matches and have a BLAST, last Sunday placed 9th out of 25 at 68.3% against PCC's and high cap dot guns, for that reason, PCSL is a great game for me.

[gargoil66]

47 minutes ago, matteekay said:

 

Shot one last weekend. Hell of a lot of fun (the K-zone bailed me out at least twice).

 

There's another on Saturday, 2-Gun this time. I'll probably shoot IDPA instead as I don't want to bring my SBR behind enemy lines.

MK:

 

Have I missed something?  Can't even find a listing of clubs who have PCSL matches.  Maybe on Practiscore? 

 

GG

[matteekay]

1 hour ago, gargoil66 said:

MK:

 

Have I missed something?  Can't even find a listing of clubs who have PCSL matches.  Maybe on Practiscore? 

 

GG

 

It's a rule set more than an organization so I wouldn't expect there to be PCSL-specific "Clubs" listed anywhere. I just find matches using Practiscore.

 

In my little corner of New England I know of at least four groups running PCSL matches, often alongside IDPA and USPSA. They typically have about double the current attendance of the IRC, though I rarely see revolvers. I might give it a whirl at some point to see if I like it more than I do USPSA revo.

[gargoil66]

10 hours ago, matteekay said:

 

It's a rule set more than an organization so I wouldn't expect there to be PCSL-specific "Clubs" listed anywhere. I just find matches using Practiscore.

 

In my little corner of New England I know of at least four groups running PCSL matches, often alongside IDPA and USPSA. They typically have about double the current attendance of the IRC, though I rarely see revolvers. I might give it a whirl at some point to see if I like it more than I do USPSA revo.

Found one!

 

Range I used to shoot High Power when I lived in that area. 

 

A good three hours one way if there is no traffic.  Problem is there is traffic and even on a Sunday, it will be unpleasant.  

 

Never realized there were so many clubs vic Litchfield.  Pretty impressive.

 

GG