Who's stoked about the new Tisas Night Stalker 2011?

[mreed911]

10 hours ago, shred said:

But, based on what I know about 2011 manufacturers and manufacturing here and abroad, I'd be somewhat surprised if there were two completely independent manufacturers thereof in the area.   The factories may have different names and they may say they make everything in house, but that is rarely the case.  YMMV.

 

Girsan and Tisas are two different companies.  Tisas is the production unit for MAC, based on MAC's specs, and they're each bringing out their own line of double stacks alongside what Girsan brought to market.

 

Girsan is very hit and miss and their production lines show it.  The XX11 side of the house is ROUGH.  Their Beretta 92 and Hi-Power clones are much, much better.  Nobody I know with a Girsan 2311 got a great trigger out of the box... not at all.

 

Interestingly, Tisas reportedly makes some of the parts that end up in the Springfield SA-35.

[shred]

Everybody makes parts for everybody else, even in the US.  It's not different overseas, there's good reasons for it. When somebody tooled up for volume production can sell parts to you cheaper than you can make them there's little reason not to do that.  

 

Mossberg of all people makes a large percentage of all barrels and blanks sold, including by competitor brands.

 

A lot of 2011 frames and other gun parts are blanked out (think "80%") in S. Korea and shipped all over the world to end-users for completion and the  "made in whereever" markings. 

 

[ddc]

10 hours ago, mreed911 said:

 

Girsan and Tisas are two different companies.  Tisas is the production unit for MAC, based on MAC's specs, and they're each bringing out their own line of double stacks alongside what Girsan brought to market.

 

Girsan is very hit and miss and their production lines show it.  The XX11 side of the house is ROUGH.  Their Beretta 92 and Hi-Power clones are much, much better.  Nobody I know with a Girsan 2311 got a great trigger out of the box... not at all.

 

Interestingly, Tisas reportedly makes some of the parts that end up in the Springfield SA-35.

 

There was a review of the MAC version of the Tisas in the recent NRA Rilfleman.

Fairly positive.

Seems like it could be a solid option in the Prodigy product space.

 

Edit: The reviewer never indicated the gun was a "2011 type gun" or a "2011 clone" or anything referencing 2011.  Not sure what that implies about their credibility or background with the 2011 universe.

Edited January 21 by ddc

[Joe4d]

On 1/17/2024 at 8:11 PM, troupe said:

Turkey is making some very nice options. Picked up 2 of the MIC benelli copies. Very nice.

Yeh Benelli copies with crap metal.. About only good thing is if not out of stock you can fit benelli extractor

Seems every few years some new POS clone comes out of turkey, people ooh and ah, then find out the metal is junk, support nonexistant, specs not quite right, and you see them for sale used on the forums and auction sights then the fans or a new generation of fans move on to the next one. 

[notanoperator993]

18 minutes ago, shred said:

Everybody makes parts for everybody else, even in the US.  It's not different overseas, there's good reasons for it. When somebody tooled up for volume production can sell parts to you cheaper than you can make them there's little reason not to do that.  

 

Mossberg of all people makes a large percentage of all barrels and blanks sold, including by competitor brands.

 

A lot of 2011 frames and other gun parts are blanked out (think "80%") in S. Korea and shipped all over the world to end-users for completion and the  "made in whereever" markings. 

 

actually, cheely, PT and JEM manufacture, in the US, a very large majority of the 2011 frames now used by most everyone. No need for overseas frame manufacturing anymore, unless your trying to stay at a certain price point. 

[mreed911]

On 1/17/2024 at 3:09 PM, notanoperator993 said:

Get the feeling shred doesn't like Turkish guns huh...

 

3 hours ago, ddc said:

 

There was a review of the MAC version of the Tisas in the recent NRA Rilfleman.

Fairly positive.

Seems like it could be a solid option in the Prodigy product space.

 

Edit: The reviewer never indicated the gun was a "2011 type gun" or a "2011 clone" or anything referencing 2011.  Not sure what that implies about their credibility or background with the 2011 universe.

 

It implies nothing.  Staccato owns the trademark for "2011."  Nobody else can use it, so it's 2311, double-stack 1911, etc.

 

2 hours ago, Joe4d said:

Yeh Benelli copies with crap metal.. About only good thing is if not out of stock you can fit benelli extractor

Seems every few years some new POS clone comes out of turkey, people ooh and ah, then find out the metal is junk, support nonexistant, specs not quite right, and you see them for sale used on the forums and auction sights then the fans or a new generation of fans move on to the next one. 

 

Can you be more specific, since there are multiple manufacturers in Turkey (just like the US)?  What specific manufacturing or materials quality defect information do you have re: Tisas?

 

2 hours ago, notanoperator993 said:

actually, cheely, PT and JEM manufacture, in the US, a very large majority of the 2011 frames now used by most everyone. No need for overseas frame manufacturing anymore, unless your trying to stay at a certain price point. 

 

That's the point here, for sure.  The value of the Lira vs. the USD makes these a slam dunk to import at much lower price points than US made guns.  Tisas also has good aftermarket warranty service (where Girsan requires you pay shipping BOTH WAYS).

[Joe4d]

by your Tisa and enjoy..  I have seen the same story play out quite a few times... Including the butt hurt fan boys when someone mentions... they have seen the same story play out a few times.. 

So to the OP,, nah not stoked, big yawn from me.  If I wanted a 2011 I'd by a Brazos short block kit.  In the long run end up with a way better gun, for not alot more money if you figure in all the parts needed in the Tisa 

 

[mreed911]

22 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

by your Tisa and enjoy..  I have seen the same story play out quite a few times... Including the butt hurt fan boys when someone mentions... they have seen the same story play out a few times.. 

So to the OP,, nah not stoked, big yawn from me.  If I wanted a 2011 I'd by a Brazos short block kit.  In the long run end up with a way better gun, for not alot more money if you figure in all the parts needed in the Tisa 

 

 

It'll be my fourth, so I'll be more than happy.  And I'm not planning on replacing any parts considering the only potential MIM part is the recoil plug.  My last two Tisas came sub 3.5# and crisp out of the box.  One other was about 4.75, easily tunable with the existing sear spring.

 

Could care less about being dismissed as a fanboy for simply not agreeing to crap on new things.  And my comnments re: Girsan should have clued you into that, but bias can be a bitch to overcome... so I get it.

[ddc]

1 hour ago, mreed911 said:

 

 

It implies nothing.  Staccato owns the trademark for "2011."  Nobody else can use it, so it's 2311, double-stack 1911, etc.

 

 

Yeah I get that. I just thought they might make a reference to the "double stack 1911" euphoria that seems to be sweeping the nation... lol... not a big deal...

Edited January 21 by ddc

[troupe]

Another hater, what is new. If it is not the big name, it is junk. Whatever !  Now I am yawning, my money , my junk.

[notanoperator993]

1 hour ago, troupe said:

Another hater, what is new. If it is not the big name, it is junk. Whatever !  Now I am yawning, my money , my junk.

Agreed! our club has had more issues with atlas guns than anything else. It's ok, i just beat them with my g17 and g19. One rattle trap, two with major extractor issues and one that had a barrel link area shear off completely during a match (kkm). 
 

just cuz it's $4-6k, doesn't always mean it's the best. 

[392heminut]

3 hours ago, troupe said:

Another hater, what is new. If it is not the big name, it is junk. Whatever !  Now I am yawning, my money , my junk.

Yup!!!

 

My shooting buddy just bought Infinity open gun from another local shooter for $8G and had several problems with it at the match this last weekend. About all he had to says was "Man this gun is fast!" Myself, I'd be mad as hell if I paid that for a gun and it didn't run right! Apparently money doesn't always buy perfection!

Edited January 22 by 392heminut

[troupe]

Love it, keep up the great job. I hate it for the shooters that try and spend there way to wins. Then, I hate it even more for good folks that spend that type of money and end up with that type of service from what is the high dollar guns. The CoolAid is not always what the hype is meant to be believed.

 

Bottom line, if you can afford it and want it, get it. Do be warned that you don't always get what you pay for. This is a sport with a lot of hype from some. There was a reason Springfield brought out a pistol at a lower price point than Staccato. The market is big enough to sustain the lower priced pistols and if the lower priced pistols were not good enough, you would not see such great companies, such as EGW and Dawson Precision offering parts for them. I can tell you from personal experience and knowing both George and Dave, that those two wizards of this market would not invest in something that will just sit on the shelf.

[mreed911]

14 hours ago, troupe said:

The market is big enough to sustain the lower priced pistols and if the lower priced pistols were not good enough, you would not see such great companies, such as EGW and Dawson Precision offering parts for them.

 

More of the other end of the spectrum but if you haven't watched the GOA interview with the CEO of Palmetto State Armory, it's well worth an hour of your time (and this comes from someone who would never spend an hour on most other interview videos).  

 

There's an outside rumor they might have a double-stack something-or-other coming this year.  I personally doubt it unless they're working something with RIA, who is the the supplier for their in-house 1911 line, but anything is possible.  I also never connected that they were the folks that bought the AAC suppressor line and haven't moved it in-house (yet)... hence them finally having the AAC name for ammo, too.

 

 

 

Edited January 22 by mreed911

[Dr Mitch]

The Palmetto CEO interview is fantastic.  Palmetto is a national treasure.

[sandflea316]

A PSA 2011 would be dope

[Tokarev]

Americanrifleman.org review of the MAC. 

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/review-mac-9-ds/

 

Vulcan (or was it Monsoon) posted some pics on facetik. They have a gun and will be doing some integral ports, etc. 

[shred]

I'll have one to mess with in a few days.  We'll see how it stacks up to against the Girsans and other 2011s.

 

The rumor PSA is doing a hicap 1911 has been floating around for a few years, so wouldn't be surprising.

 

[mreed911]

1 hour ago, Tokarev said:

Americanrifleman.org review of the MAC. 

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/review-mac-9-ds/

 

Vulcan (or was it Monsoon) posted some pics on facetik. They have a gun and will be doing some integral ports, etc. 

 

Note that that was a pre-production review.  I'm looking forward to the final version.  They're also the only one I've seen with any views of the optics system.

[Tokarev]

10 hours ago, mreed911 said:

 

Note that that was a pre-production review.  I'm looking forward to the final version.  They're also the only one I've seen with any views of the optics system.

 

The optic system looks somewhat akin to the Agency plates used on the Springfield Prodigy. The MAC comes with an iron sight plate and also an RMR plate. I don't see any other plate options on the MAC website. 

[Tokarev]

11 hours ago, shred said:

I'll have one to mess with in a few days.  We'll see how it stacks up to against the Girsans and other 2011s.

 

 

I would speculate that both the MAC and the Tisas are going to be a better value than the EAA Girsan Witness. I saw this because the Girsan is running about $850. For another $100 the MAC seems to be better equipped. Metal mag well instead of plastic. QPQ finish on metal parts instead of Cerakote. Then the more generic Tisas guns are in stock at Battle Hawk Armory for $750. So for $100 less you can get what appears to be essentially the same gun. Standard bushing barrel, etc. 

 

The only advantage it would seem the Girsan offers is the aluminum frame. But I'd think most people here on B.E. would want steel instead of lightweight aluminum. 

11 hours ago, shred said:

 

 

Edited February 7 by Tokarev

[mreed911]

6 hours ago, Tokarev said:

 

The optic system looks somewhat akin to the Agency plates used on the Springfield Prodigy. The MAC comes with an iron sight plate and also an RMR plate. I don't see any other plate options on the MAC website. 

 

Pre-production ads said Holosun K compatbility, too, but I'm wondering if they got that confused with C, which is RMR compatible.

 

6 hours ago, Tokarev said:

The only advantage it would seem the Girsan offers is the aluminum frame. But I'd think most people here on B.E. would want steel instead of lightweight aluminum. 

 

 

Depends.  Staccato offers both, more for carry weight than anything.  For competition, steel would by my preferred choice.

 

Next biggest difference is the bull barrel on the MAC vs. bushing barrel on the Tisas.

[shred]

Got the Night Stalker in a few minutes ago, so I haven't shot it, but first impressions are "pretty good, for the price".  It does look like most of the parts are different from the Girsan.  Some for the better, some not.  Some small parts look identical, but I appear to be wrong about it being a Girsan factory twin.

 

The grips are quite different in several places.  I like the shape a bit better but they are much more slippery compared to the Girsan and a touch larger at the back with very fine checkering on the front (IMO not grippy enough).  They are more like Prodigy grips with the small sandpaper texture versus STI & Girsan with the diamonds and fake lower screw, but not as grippy as Prodigy grips.  Quite possibly interchangeable with others, but there may be some odd joints where the geometries meet up.  TBD

 

The factory trigger is way way better than the Girsan.  Several pounds and a bit of creep but not "holy crap, is this broken?".

 

Slide/Barrel Fit and lockup is ok, a little tighter than the Girsan.  We'll see how much of that is due to cerakote.

 

Although it has ambi safeties both sides are smaller compared to the Girsan (As a left-hander that rides the safety, I like the Girsan size much better)

 

The front vents look cool but are useless as cocking serrations (possibly partly because it's oversprung in both the recoil and mainspring).  Tri-top slide looks nice but is quite aggressive so watch for cracking long-term.  The ejection port is lowered a lot.  Bushing barrel, no FLGR (Girsan has a reduced-diameter FLGR.), Clark/Para barrel ramp, whereas Girsan is Wilson/Nowlin.  

 

The scope cut looks like RMRcc or something similarly small.  Although the manual says RMR, I tried a SRO and its a quarter inch too long.  Meh, was hoping for something larger.  Comes with a rather comical, but visible, orange-ring tritium front sight and black rear.

 

Comes with two 17 round mags that look just like Checkmate used in the Girsan so probably are, although they are branded Tisas this time.

 

The magwell is aluminum vs plastic but a competitor is going to want something bigger.  TBD: see what fits.

 

Has the long-ass Turkish serial number.  Says Turkiye in the slots on the pic rail where you have to look hard for it, the side says Tisas Knoxville TN.

 

More later if anything comes to mind.

 

 

[Tokarev]

One thing I've found particularly disappointing with my Girsan is the internal dimensions of the mag well. Checkmate mags work okay as do Atlas but Staccato mags will not latch in and/or will fall out under recoil. Mine isn't the only one. Honest Outlaw and Humble Marskaman have had similar problems. 

[mreed911]

Really good feedback, Shred.  My order got canceled by an unscrupulous dealer, so I'm waiting for a restock.  Current prices for those left are near-MSRP... not worth the wait.  Did you get the MAC, too?  Would love to hear feedback on that one.

 

The Tisas is supposed to be RMSc/Holosun K cut from the factory, I thought.