Hard trigger pull on brand new shadow 2 orange

[w4rwf]

First post and glad to find this forum on CZ pistols. Anyway, question for anyone, I just purchased a brand new Shadow 2 Orange. I've cleaned it and put just over a hundred rounds down range with it. Everything I've read about these pistols with this supposed great trigger pull just isn't there. My Wheeler trigger pull gauge cannot even pull the trigger in d/a. It maxes out the Wheeler beyond the 8 lb scale and can't pull the trigger at all. Since I can't measure it with the wheeler I can only guess at the trigger weight which is ridiculous. I'm guessing over 10 lbs. The s/a is better at a consistent 3.4 lb pull. I still thought it would be better than that but that is acceptable. Any suggestions on the d/a trigger pull? I've got an old Taurus pistol that has a lot better trigger pull in d/a from the factory than this and way cheaper.

 

Thanks in advance!

[darthdively]

Unfortunately, out of the box what you are experiencing is normal for most standard shadow 2's. I think the main difference between the orange vs standard blue is the bushing, fitting, and trigger set up(not pull weight). I could be wrong about the trigger pull weight. The standard mainspring that interacts with the hammer is pretty heavy on the double action. Many shooters like myself will change the mainspring. For a long while I changed it to a 13 main spring which sets off all primers I have encountered. It brought it to a tolerable double action. I started a thread on it if you want to read more about it.

 

Back to your concern.. short answer: it's normal. If you want to have lighter, you will need to change mainspring weight. inexpensive and very easy to do.

[w4rwf]

Thanks darthdively! I found a post from somewhere back in 2020 about this. May have been yours, I don't remember. Either way I just got onto CZ's web site and ordered one each of the 13, 12, and 11 lb hammer springs. I'm gonna give them a try. Looking forward to something better than this.

[Tunachaser]

I have a Lyman 12# digital scale and my S2O came in at just over 9#, changed to a lighter spring and now it's about 6.5#.

[w4rwf]

Thanks Tuna, definitely looking forward to it. It seems to be a really accurate gun but that trigger pull definitely makes you work for it. Not opposed to working for it but shouldn't have to at the price point of these guns when simply a lighter trigger spring from the factory would make it more awesome right out of the box.

[w4rwf]

Anyone know if the CZ 11 lb spring is too light and what pull weights you are getting?

[crg]

This is purely anecdotal, but I have two Shadow 2s purchased about two years apart (a pre-OR and OR model) and the trigger pull on the newer one is much, much worse than the old one was out of the box. Even after a few thousand rounds the DA pull was very heavy and gritty. I recently stripped it bare and polished all the internals per the sticky thread on this forum, and while doing so noticed the quality of the machining of the internals is much worse than my old gun. The trigger bar in particular is very rough with significant tooling marks on many of the contact surfaces including the two faces that contact the disconnector during the DA trigger pull. I don't have a gauge, but qualitatively I can say the polishing significantly reduced the pull weight and probably more importantly smoothed the pull dramatically.

 

If you don't want to go too overboard you can probably achieve a pretty big improvement in DA just by polishing the surfaces on the disconnector and trigger bar carefully where the two parts contact. Combine that with a lighter main spring and you may be satisfied.

[w4rwf]

I will get around to pulling it all the way down to parade rest soon. Even in retirement it seems time is always at a premium. That's why I only have a 100 or so rounds thru it. I will remedy that soon I hope and hopefully I will get the gun I thought I was buying to start with. Although the trigger seems to be smooth I guess a little polishing never hurt anything.

[HesedTech]

3 hours ago, w4rwf said:

Anyone know if the CZ 11 lb spring is too light and what pull weights you are getting?

Lots of info here about the S2 and how to tune it. Just dropping in an 11 lb hammer spring will not make you happy. The first thing you will notice is light strikes. 

 

I love the gun and highly recommend it, however it has to be tuned and polished. It will cost you a few extra $$ to bring it up to a really nice competition gun. Both Cajon and CZ Custom can do the work for you. 

 

Afterwards you can use a 11.5 - 12 lb hammer spring have a 6 lb DA and 2.5 lb SA with a short reset and almost zero trigger play in SA.

 

Enjoy

[fbzero]

7 hours ago, w4rwf said:

First post and glad to find this forum on CZ pistols. Anyway, question for anyone, I just purchased a brand new Shadow 2 Orange. I've cleaned it and put just over a hundred rounds down range with it. Everything I've read about these pistols with this supposed great trigger pull just isn't there. My Wheeler trigger pull gauge cannot even pull the trigger in d/a. It maxes out the Wheeler beyond the 8 lb scale and can't pull the trigger at all. Since I can't measure it with the wheeler I can only guess at the trigger weight which is ridiculous. I'm guessing over 10 lbs. The s/a is better at a consistent 3.4 lb pull. I still thought it would be better than that but that is acceptable. Any suggestions on the d/a trigger pull? I've got an old Taurus pistol that has a lot better trigger pull in d/a from the factory than this and way cheaper.

 

Thanks in advance!

Totally normal.  I always chuckle when people talk about how good the trigger is out of the box.  Honestly, I think it is people accustomed to striker-fired pistols commenting on how "good" the SA trigger pull is with no intention of using the DA feature.

Lightening it is as easy as changing the hammer spring and trigger return spring, then it will feel much better.  Don't go under 13lb with the stock firing pin though.  If you want to improve it beyond that, CGW is the ticket.  Without changing some parts out, it's going to have some pre-travel, over travel, longer travel, and be a bit mushier SA pull than it could be.  Realistically, you probably wouldn't notice much more than the long DA pull on the clock.

Edited December 13, 2023 by fbzero

[JonasAberg]

At the European Handgun Championship in September, I made a point to check out a number of CZ "clones" and compare to the Shadow 2 Orange. I checked out the Phoenix Redback, KMR Spectra, CZ Customs, Tanfoglio Stock 3 Pro, Stock 2 and Extreme. Honestly, I was not that impressed with the Shadow 2 Orange trigger (stock). It was definitely heavy, as you have noticed, but there was still some single action creep. In my humble opinion, the trigger was just slightly better than a standard Shadow 2, certainly not 1000€ better. The Shadow 2 does, however, seem to respond very well to spring upgrades so I don't doubt you can get a much nicer trigger with a little work.

Comparing all those guns, I think the Phoenix and KMR offerings (all production division guns, since that's what I shoot) were the nicest. However, their triggers were certainly not that much lighter (if at all) compared to the Shadow 2 Orange, so even those would probably benefit from lighter springs as well.

As far as "best production division trigger" goes, I have to give that to the Laugo Alien but that's a whole other beast.

[fbzero]

1 minute ago, JonasAberg said:

...the trigger was just slightly better than a standard Shadow 2, certainly not 1000€ better.

Honestly, the "factory tuned" trigger on the Orange is just marketing talk IMHO.  Not convinced there is much(if any) difference from the standard models in that regard.  I think the only real selling points are the bushing and hand fit slide to frame.  I got pretty good deals on both of mine, but even at $1400, I don't think they are worth the extra if I'm being honest.

 

I think it makes more sense to save $500, get a standard model, then bench test the accuracy.  If good, order CGW pro kit with no bushing, if not good, order CGW pro kit with bushing(extra $60).

Stock + Pro Kit = $1200
Stock + Pro Kit + 10x bushing = $1260

Orange + Pro Kit = $1700 - $1950

I don't actually see the oranges under $1600 very often and prices above are sort of a best case scenario since it's not strange to see them for $1700-2100 the vast majority of the time.  You could get two standard models with upgraded triggers for the cost of one upgraded orange if you pay the $2100 on the high end...

 

 

 

[Blackstone45]

Unrelated to the Shadow 2, but a person at my club picked up a new CZ TS2 Orange and he seems to have got one with a bad trigger. The reset is far too long for a SAO trigger and longer than another TS2 Orange in the club. Not what you expect when you pay that kind of money for one....

[motosapiens]

On 12/13/2023 at 7:19 AM, w4rwf said:

Anyone know if the CZ 11 lb spring is too light and what pull weights you are getting?

i have never measured the pull weight because i don't care, but i have had success with the 11 lb spring as long as i use federal or winchester primers. i think cci are probably safe too. with ginex or s&b primers i had to go up to 12lb to get reliable ignition.

[OPENB]

My backup gun has an 11# hammer spring, extended firing pin, and 10# recoil spring. Eats all primers I've tried, and trigger is acceptable. Reset is not as nice as my Cajunized primary gun.

[crg]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

i have never measured the pull weight because i don't care, but i have had success with the 11 lb spring as long as i use federal or winchester primers. i think cci are probably safe too. with ginex or s&b primers i had to go up to 12lb to get reliable ignition.

 

I have an 11.5 pound spring with factory firing pin and spring and haven't had any light strikes in about 1000 rds with S&B primers but it's a brand new spring so I may be dancing with fate.

Edited December 14, 2023 by crg

[jejb]

5 hours ago, crg said:

 

I have an 11.5 pound spring with factory firing pin and spring and haven't had any light strikes in about 1000 rds with S&B primers but it's a brand new spring so I may be dancing with fate.

I also use the 11.5# spring, from Cajun Gunworks. They have a lot of great options. DA is just in the 6-7lb range and very smooth.

 

As you read the feedback, some are talking about the non-trigger tuned S2's, so keep that in mind. I have 15+ thousand rounds through my S2 Orange and the trigger has always been smooth and crisp. Do a little spring swapping and I'm sure it will make you happy. 

[usmc1974]

I have a CZSPO1 phantom And the trigger pull on it is atrocious  Also. I do not shoot it very much, I prefer my smith and Wesson M&P2.0 metal, It has a much better trigger and it feels better in the hand with the grip design. Just saying.

On the side note when I was shooting my beretta 92 I just got 2 coils off of the factory spring, and it cleaned up the DA trigger quite a bit

Edited December 15, 2023 by usmc1974

[w4rwf]

All this is good 411 and am waiting on springs to get here. Supposed to be Monday. I ordered from CZ Custom and ordered one each of the 11, 12, and 13 lb springs. The combo pack was out of stock. Right now I have around 1000 rounds of 124g that I loaded and they all have CCI or either Ginex primers so it should be a good test of wills between the springs and primers being used. I will report back on what I end up with but I'm sure that my experience should hopefully be very similar to every one else's and I will have a decent trigger pull. Not necessarily looking for a 2 lb trigger in s/a or something super light in d/a but I certainly want way better than what I have.

[w4rwf]

6 hours ago, jejb said:

I also use the 11.5# spring, from Cajun Gunworks. They have a lot of great options. DA is just in the 6-7lb range and very smooth.

 

As you read the feedback, some are talking about the non-trigger tuned S2's, so keep that in mind. I have 15+ thousand rounds through my S2 Orange and the trigger has always been smooth and crisp. Do a little spring swapping and I'm sure it will make you happy. 

I noticed that some of these were for other variants of the shadow 2 and I am  keeping that in mind. I don't have any grit/dirt feel in the trigger at all. It's smooth and crisp, just danged hard to pull on.

[JonasAberg]

22 hours ago, fbzero said:

... I got pretty good deals on both of mine, but even at $1400, I don't think they are worth the extra if I'm being honest.

 

...

I don't actually see the oranges under $1600 very often and prices above are sort of a best case scenario since it's not strange to see them for $1700-2100 the vast majority of the time.  You could get two standard models with upgraded triggers for the cost of one upgraded orange if you pay the $2100 on the high end...

 

 

 

Over here in Finland, a standard Shadow 2 is close to 2000€, while the Orange is just over 3000€, no upgrades or anything on any of them. You can find used Shadow 2's at around 1400 though.

[w4rwf]

I got mine for $1450 to the FFL and then $20 to him and I don't have any regrets buying it. But anyone of the shadows is more accurate than I am and maybe the optics ready version is the way I should have gone. Call me crazy but I love that orange look. Besides, this is gonna be a hobby/fun/range toy so I can develop it as I want. I have never shot competition and at my age never will. Another plus with the orange version, if it makes a difference or not in the shooting, you only get the hand fitted slide with this version cause once any of them leave the factory it's too late to go back to hand fitting a slide to it. The trigger work they do is great on the orange but that can be done by you, the owner.

[Michaelsabre]

Change hammer spring is easy.

 

I ran out of SPP during pandemic and load 9mm with rifle primers. CZ stock spring has no problem igniting them.

[w4rwf]

I've been seeing a lot of that about the stock firing pin and spring igniting most anything out there. I'll put the 11 lb spring in to start and if problems move up to the next weight spring. I suspect that I'm gonna be fine. I know CJW makes the extended firing pin but I'm not gonna go that route. Nothing but friends and family at the shooting range(non public range) and I would never chance something happening to anyone of them in the chase for the holy grail of light trigger pulls. We usually gather about once a quarter (20-30) of us and shoot skeet, shoot the rifles, pistols, whatever you got along with a few fun filled packs of tannerite to spice things up maybe but an accidentally dropped pistol that pops off because of an extended firing pin aint my idea of fun. I know people use 'em and most with no problem, the problem is that one chance in whatever not workin out for ya. Can't reach out and grab the bullet to bring it back after it's discharged.

[sil7z]

On 12/14/2023 at 4:27 PM, JonasAberg said:

At the European Handgun Championship in September, I made a point to check out a number of CZ "clones" and compare to the Shadow 2 Orange. I checked out the Phoenix Redback, KMR Spectra, CZ Customs, Tanfoglio Stock 3 Pro, Stock 2 and Extreme. Honestly, I was not that impressed with the Shadow 2 Orange trigger (stock). It was definitely heavy, as you have noticed, but there was still some single action creep. In my humble opinion, the trigger was just slightly better than a standard Shadow 2, certainly not 1000€ better. The Shadow 2 does, however, seem to respond very well to spring upgrades so I don't doubt you can get a much nicer trigger with a little work.

Comparing all those guns, I think the Phoenix and KMR offerings (all production division guns, since that's what I shoot) were the nicest. However, their triggers were certainly not that much lighter (if at all) compared to the Shadow 2 Orange, so even those would probably benefit from lighter springs as well.

As far as "best production division trigger" goes, I have to give that to the Laugo Alien but that's a whole other beast.

KMR has 11 and 13lb springs, both main and recoil, included in the kit.

 

I found out a 9lb main spring is the minimum for a good DA pull while still reliably setting off all the ammo I use with a lightened firing pin spring. No other work necessary IMO.

Edited December 16, 2023 by sil7z