Questions from an open NOOB

[LarryL]

Hey everyone, I'm new to true open guns but am oooohh sooo tempted to pull the trigger on the Infinity IMM Open gun hitting the books next week. 
 

I am a bit of a noob tho with some questions about open guns, and hoping you fine folks can help point me in the right direction

 

For more context, I've been shooting for about 3 years now, mainly at the range for fun and doing local USPSA and knockdown matches. I enjoy these events, do them often, like getting better, but I'm not doing it be super competitive or a pro shooter... I'm doing it mainly for fun and because I enjoy the finer things in life (which is was brought me to Infinity). 

 

I currently have a Staccato XC which is a great gun that I love, but it put's me in open category and only runs minor ammo.... and then when I saw all these sick Infinity's I was like - yea, I need to have one. 
 

Anyway, for a true open gun like this my main concerns are ammo, maintenance, and reliability...

 

I don't plan to load my own ammo probably ever... I get that 38SC will cost me more that what I'm shooting now but fck it... you only live once haha...

 

Question 1 is - is there a real chance that ammo is hard to impossible to get from factory? I know there are a few places to get 38SC from now, but is this a valid concern? 

 

Question 2 is - I'm not a tinkerer... so outside of regular cleaning do these guns run, or is it something where I'll need to be much more hands on and always fix and adjust things? 
 

With the Staccato XC I keep it clean but have yet to fully fully take it apart, and I’m like 15-20k rounds in with never an issue.

 

aside from regular maintenance and changing springs I haven’t done much else. While I’m tempted to get the infinity, I don’t love the idea of having to fully take everything apart super often to make adjustments, etc..

 

is it really much different caring for an open gun than say my XC?

 

 

and Question 3 is - (kinda related to question 2), but are these things very fragile and/or break often... 
From the little research I've done, I've heard people say you need 2 open guns... one for shooting, and another one for when that ones in the shop lol. Any truth to this? 

Thanks for your time, and very much looking forward to joining the fam real soon..

Larry

[shred]

1- possible, like everything else, but supply and demand will generate supply if there's enough demand.

2- they take some tweaking and tuning to get running, then if you don't mess with them, they usually run well for a while.   Getting one with tuned mags from a name builder that stands behind it helps if you don't like messing with them

 

If you are serious about shooting big matches and will practice enough to get there, you should have two guns or be good at fixing one because open guns are race cars and things do break a bit more often (barring dots... they break more when slide-mounted).  But for fun/local/club use how bad is it if your Open gun is gone for a month or two to be fixed?

 

[Zachjet]

I shot with a local Gm with an infinity 38sc.   He said buy once, cry once.  And his gun just runs 

[davsco]

just buy a buttload of ammo that will last you a couple of years.  and over every year, add to that.

 

an 'open' gun isn't going to be much more prone to issues than any 1911 or 2011.  sure you have higher pressures and we've heard of comp and frame cracks.  but 'normal' stuff like ejector and extractor are relatively easy to replace yourself.  you can even ask the builder for fitted extras of those as you buy the gun to make any fix/replacement even easier.  someone will let me know if i'm wrong, but 38super/comp should be a little less pressure than 9 major so a little easier on your gun.

 

i will say that reloading isn't all that bad.  though it isn't significantly cheaper than just buying loaded ammo, at least for 38 super and prob also supercomp.  i've been buying new unprimed brass so avoiding all the cleaning/tumbling mess and hassle.  not to mention finding a couple of 38 brass in a sea of 9mm brass at the match isn't so easy  not that i'm good enough to tell the difference but reloading vs factory ammo lets you narrow down a powder charge that works best in your gun.

[LarryL]

24 minutes ago, Zachjet said:

I shot with a local Gm with an infinity 38sc.   He said buy once, cry once.  And his gun just runs 

Yeah, I don’t doubt that.

 

My concern though is, I have no problem doing general maintenance and cleaning and field, stripping and all that good stuff,

 

But how often do I have to strip the gun down completely and tinker with it there?

 

Do I constantly have to adjust magazines?

 

Do I constantly have to do things like check, extractor, tensions, and all other kind of what I consider for me personally to be higher level stuff?

 

Again, with my staccato, I take it apart, I clean it, 20,000 rounds and not one issue. 
 

I am just trying to understand if with an open gun, there is a huge huge difference between maintenance as compared to a regular 2011

Edited December 8, 2023 by LarryL

[Dchassejr]

Open Guns are like anything else, the more you beat on them the more maintenance they require.  Field strip and clean every 1K rounds, recoil spring every 2k and change parts as required by infinitys maintenance protocols and it'll run forever.

[davsco]

41 minutes ago, LarryL said:

I am just trying to understand if with an open gun, there is a huge huge difference between maintenance as compared to a regular 2011

an open gun is just a regular 2011, with a comp on the barrel and a frame-mount for the optic.  and of course hotter ammo so yeah it will get a little more beat up.  other than that all the parts are pretty much the same.  no magic or mystery.  you're not going from a ford escape to a top fuel dragster - same form factor and pretty much same internal and external parts going from a basic 2011 to an open gun.

 

infinity or whomever will give you mags or tell you what to use.  i've never had to adjust lips or the like, just like you apparently haven't in your staccato.

 

the biggest thing you're getting with a custom open gun is more meticulous form, finish and fitment and the ability to pick the parts and settings you like based on your experience.

[konkapot]

At some point, just for general knowledge, you'll want to know how to take the thing apart. It's part of being a competitive shooter. 

 

Old timers that I shot with early on said that if you're Open gun ran the entire match without malfunctioning you'd probably win the whole match. 

 

That is no longer true but the rumors persist. 

 

If you keep your gun clean, and use decent ammo, you will be fine. 

 

Periodically clean those mags, and periodically put new springs in them. Unless you're a "fiddler" just leave it alone. Shoot, clean, repeat. 

 

I'd quibble a bit with factory 38SC ammo being cheaper than reloading it. 

 

As someone said above, an Open gun is................a 2011. Just like your Staccato. 

[sandflea316]

On 12/8/2023 at 10:12 AM, LarryL said:

Yeah, I don’t doubt that.

 

My concern though is, I have no problem doing general maintenance and cleaning and field, stripping and all that good stuff,

 

But how often do I have to strip the gun down completely and tinker with it there?

 

Do I constantly have to adjust magazines?

 

Do I constantly have to do things like check, extractor, tensions, and all other kind of what I consider for me personally to be higher level stuff?

 

Again, with my staccato, I take it apart, I clean it, 20,000 rounds and not one issue. 
 

I am just trying to understand if with an open gun, there is a huge huge difference between maintenance as compared to a regular 2011

 

Knowledge on how to detail strip the gun is something you should learn to do.  Otherwise I just remove slide and barrel, clean them and lube.  That's really it.  You shouldn't have to tinker with a properly built gun.  Some people like to tune them to their needs, but that doesn't mean you have to.

 

Adjust magazine?  Never had to adjust my SVI, MBX or Atlas mags.  Ever.  Just new springs every year.

 

SVI probably need to be clean more than a Staccato due to really tight tolerances.  I clean my open gun just like my glock.  After every match.  Deep clean once a year.

 

[motosapiens]

modern open guns in 38 from reputable builders run pretty well if you keep them clean and lubed and clean the magazines every time they hit the ground. We had a couple malfunctions during break in (first 1-2k rounds), but haven't had a single glitch since last july, in around 5k rounds of practice and competition (gun in question is a brazos semi-custom).

 

reloading costs about half of what factory ammo costs (25cents/rd vs 50+ cents). I personally couldn't justify 50 cents a round to shoot.... I'd quit and just ride my dirtbike more, but if you've got the $$, that's fine with me. Pay attention tho, the cheaper options for 38super ammo have exposed lead bases, and the lead will likely gum up your compensator. If you don't like tinkering with cleaning comps, I think you'll want to run jhp boolits.

 

If I were in your place however, I would just spend my coin on a fancy limited optics gun and shoot factory 9mm and save a crap ton of money and headaches.

[davsco]

4 hours ago, motosapiens said:

If I were in your place however, I would just spend my coin on a fancy limited optics gun and shoot factory 9mm and save a crap ton of money and headaches.

yep that's the allure of LO, nice 2011's and much less expensive factory ammo, less noise also.

 

i'm showing about $455/k for reloading 38 super using new brass.  about $100-150 less than Atlanta.  i welcome any cost savings if anyone sees any.  obviously picking up brass would help.

 

 

 

[LarryL]

36 minutes ago, davsco said:

yep that's the allure of LO, nice 2011's and much less expensive factory ammo, less noise also.

 

i'm showing about $455/k for reloading 38 super using new brass.  about $100-150 less than Atlanta.  i welcome any cost savings if anyone sees any.  obviously picking up brass would help.

 

 

 

I don’t plan on reloading, but I see Eley 38SC new coming in at 0.414 brand new.

[Bigzona]

I agree with everything here, but one thing I'd add that no one mentioned when i started is the extractor channel (depending on your builder....Infinity doesn't have one). Given that you'd be shooting major, you would have roughly 3x the powder charge, and consequently the same amount in carbon build up. My first open gun ran flawless for 5k rounds, and I cleaned it every 500 rounds, but ignored the extractor channel. Carbon build up got so bad that it threw my extractor out of tune, then I started getting malfunctions.  The other one I always mentioned was already stated above; recoil springs. Change them every 1500-2000 rounds and you won't have any issues assuming the pistol is built well.

[LarryL]

2 minutes ago, Bigzona said:

I agree with everything here, but one thing I'd add that no one mentioned when i started is the extractor channel (depending on your builder....Infinity doesn't have one). Given that you'd be shooting major, you would have roughly 3x the powder charge, and consequently the same amount in carbon build up. My first open gun ran flawless for 5k rounds, and I cleaned it every 500 rounds, but ignored the extractor channel. Carbon build up got so bad that it threw my extractor out of tune, then I started getting malfunctions.  The other one I always mentioned was already stated above; recoil springs. Change them every 1500-2000 rounds and you won't have any issues assuming the pistol is built well.

Cleaning the extractor channel is easy enough?

[Bigzona]

8 minutes ago, LarryL said:

Cleaning the extractor channel is easy enough?

Super easy

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, davsco said:

i'm showing about $455/k for reloading 38 super using new brass.  about $100-150 less than Atlanta.  i welcome any cost savings if anyone sees any.  obviously picking up brass would help.

 

i've never purchased new brass, so I wouldn't add it in to my calculations. we are spending 10.5 cents on bullets, 5 on powder and 7 on primers, so right around 23 cents/round. Couple hundred bucks a month makes it pretty worthwhile for me to spend 10-15 minutes every few days loading ammo for the missus.

Edited December 11, 2023 by motosapiens

[motosapiens]

16 minutes ago, LarryL said:

I don’t plan on reloading, but I see Eley 38SC new coming in at 0.414 brand new.

i was going to buy 1000 or so rds of eley when my wife first started shooting open last spring, because it was cheaper than buying new brass and we didn't have much 38 brass then. But I noticed their bullet has an exposed lead base. In an open gun, some of that lead vaporizes and deposits itself on your compensator, where it's much harder to clean off than plain old boring soot from powder. So we worked a nearby section match instead, and got free match entry and $110 each towards travel costs and picked up 700 or so pieces of 38 brass.

[motosapiens]

14 minutes ago, Bigzona said:

My first open gun ran flawless for 5k rounds, and I cleaned it every 500 rounds, but ignored the extractor channel. Carbon build up got so bad that it threw my extractor out of tune, then I started getting malfunctions.  The other one I always mentioned was already stated above; recoil springs. Change them every 1500-2000 rounds and you won't have any issues assuming the pistol is built well.

 

extractors need to be cleaned on most anything, but especially 2011's and 1911's and cz shadow2s. I remove the extractor and clean the channel about every 3rd match. (750-800 rds).

 

In my experience recoil springs haven't been needed very often. I change once or twice a year with 2011's in general.

[Bigzona]

Agreed. My point is, shooting minor I was going waaaay longer without any issues than I would shooting major.

[motosapiens]

Just now, Bigzona said:

Agreed. My point is, shooting minor I was going waaaay longer without any issues than I would shooting major.

that is a somewhat reasonable point. I've always preferred to just take care of that stuff *before* I have issues, lol.

 

fwiw, my shadow 2 will stop running if i don't clean the extractor every 1500-2k rounds, and it's a much bigger pain to clean the extractor. (have to remove the optic).

[Bigzona]

Yes Sir. I swear some pistols are individuals! My wife shoots Shadow 2s in CO. Both have well over 5k rounds, and we've never taken out the extractor for cleaning.

 

So yea, prevention is always key as long as the level of effort is reasonable.

[LarryL]

9 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

i was going to buy 1000 or so rds of eley when my wife first started shooting open last spring, because it was cheaper than buying new brass and we didn't have much 38 brass then. But I noticed their bullet has an exposed lead base. In an open gun, some of that lead vaporizes and deposits itself on your compensator, where it's much harder to clean off than plain old boring soot from powder. So we worked a nearby section match instead, and got free match entry and $110 each towards travel costs and picked up 700 or so pieces of 38 brass.

Interesting.

 

i called Infinity and that’s the ammo they recommended. 

[motosapiens]

8 minutes ago, Bigzona said:

Yes Sir. I swear some pistols are individuals! My wife shoots Shadow 2s in CO. Both have well over 5k rounds, and we've never taken out the extractor for cleaning.

 

good to know.  perhaps just my choice of powder. i should test again now that i'm shooting n320 and see if still starts locking up.

[DavidSeavey]

2 hours ago, LarryL said:

Interesting.

 

i called Infinity and that’s the ammo they recommended. 

i shot a bunch of the eley 38sc through a friend's borrowed open gun this year when mine was dead and it both felt and chrono'd nearly the same as his reloaded ammo.  it'd certainly be a consideration for me if i weren't reloading.  or even just for majors since it's uspsa certified ammo.

[shred]

4 hours ago, davsco said:

yep that's the allure of LO, nice 2011's and much less expensive factory ammo, less noise also.

 

i'm showing about $455/k for reloading 38 super using new brass.  about $100-150 less than Atlanta.  i welcome any cost savings if anyone sees any.  obviously picking up brass would help.

 

 

 

Precision Delta has good JHPs under 10 cents per in quantity, and but the big saving is picking up brass.