Open Gun Longevity

[VU2AKILL]

With these open pistols costing $4-10K, I am curious as to how many rounds people are getting out of them with good a maintenance practices before having to replace major components like barrels, slides etc.  Is 9 major any more abusive to the parts then 38sc?  

[MikeBurgess]

What I tell people is 9 major slides have a half life of about 25,000 rounds as in half of them will crack in by 25K some go way longer some go way shorter.

Some of this is shooter induced, run 185pf because you think its flatter or whatever your likely to not last as long as someone that runs 167 pf. 

Some of this is builder induced. the better parts are fit the longer they are likely to last.

Some of this is luck of the draw.

 

 

 

[RJH]

I agree with @MikeBurgess, another way of saying it is about half as long as a limited optics gun

[MikeBurgess]

5 minutes ago, RJH said:

I agree with @MikeBurgess, another way of saying it is about half as long as a limited optics gun

but the optic will last longer so there is that

 

[beltfedgoodness]

I’ve been pondering this myself, as a reloadeer I’m going with 38SC for longevity. I might f around with a 9mm major on a different rebuild I’ll do in the future.

Edited August 17, 2023 by beltfedgoodness

[BritinUSA]

All my .38SC open guns lasted for many years. I used to run 10lb recoil spring if I recall.

[VU2AKILL]

17 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

What I tell people is 9 major slides have a half life of about 25,000 rounds as in half of them will crack in by 25K some go way longer some go way shorter.

Some of this is shooter induced, run 185pf because you think its flatter or whatever your likely to not last as long as someone that runs 167 pf. 

Some of this is builder induced. the better parts are fit the longer they are likely to last.

Some of this is luck of the draw.

 

 

 

Any experience with 38sc?  Think it is easier on stuff?  Roughly same powder charge but less pressure hypothetically should be kinder to parts but maybe it is the same.

[Maximis228]

Ive shot plenty of my 2011 9 major guns up to 50K+ before selling them. Only ever cracked 1 slide in 9 years over 300K+ 9 major over 10 years. I have a practice gun currently with over 75K on it. Its sloppy for sure and will end up getting a new top end around 100K or so if it doesn't break before then. 

[VU2AKILL]

55 minutes ago, Maximis228 said:

Ive shot plenty of my 2011 9 major guns up to 50K+ before selling them. Only ever cracked 1 slide in 9 years over 300K+ 9 major over 10 years. I have a practice gun currently with over 75K on it. Its sloppy for sure and will end up getting a new top end around 100K or so if it doesn't break before then. 

This is what I want to hear!!  Several different brands involved?  Just regular maintainence?  What PF do you settle on?

[Maximis228]

This is 100% with Venom custom guns to be fair. I'm very meticulous with cleaning. All my open guns are cleaned after every practice session and match. Most guns never went more than 250-500 rounds or so before cleaning.

 

I pretty much exclusively shoot 7.0-7.2 (Depending on batch of powder and gun set up) of Autocomp under a 124 PD JHP (V1). PF is about 171-174 depending on the specific gun set up. Ive tested every powder and bullet combo under the sun and always seem to come back to that load. (Acceptable Gas Created, Ease of loading on an automated press, cleanish, and available.) I also am a bigger guy with a strong grip. I dont need as much gas as others to keep the gun flat. 

 

This is using full size bull barrel guns (Vertical and v porting on different guns), middy hybrids, and shorty hybrids. 

 

Over 10 years of open, the only parts I have not broken are... Grips, Frames, triggers, disco/sear/leaf spring, and red dot mount. Everything else I've broken at least one of. With open being the F1 of pistol shooting... you will see some wild stuff if you play the game long enough. I have quite an interesting photo collection of broken open guns. 

[StefVanHauwe]

Over the past years I bought 3 new open race guns to shoot in the IPSC Open Division: 1 Bul Armory SAS2 Ultimate Racer and 2 Bul Armory SAS2 Bullesteros, all chambered in 9mm major. I reload my own ammo and I'm currently at 168 PF (IPSC). Running 9mm major is very hard on these race guns. Since the beginning I take well care of the guns, amongst others I check, clean and lube them everytime I have shot them in training or competition. When you shoot competition in open division, I guess you should be aware that parts and guns will for sure break sooner or later. When I look around me to other open division shooters using STI's, Checkmates, etc. it's somewhere between 25K and 50K rounds. With me it was sooner    around 7000 rounds the slide of the UR cracked at the ejection port. Around 6000 rounds the link attaching the frame to the grip of one of my Bullesteros broke off. Both issues were addressed correctly by my gunshop and Bul Armory, but still I missed the guns for almost 10 months ... 

[MikeBurgess]

3 hours ago, VU2AKILL said:

Any experience with 38sc?  Think it is easier on stuff?  Roughly same powder charge but less pressure hypothetically should be kinder to parts but maybe it is the same.

not really nobody around me shoot 38, we all hate picking up brass

 

[MikeBurgess]

2 hours ago, Maximis228 said:

I have quite an interesting photo collection of broken open guns. 

we had a guy last weekend fire a round after a squib with his open gun. the spontaneous disassembly was impressive. luckily it was limited to the gun and he swapped to his backup and finished the match.

 

[Maximis228]

1 minute ago, MikeBurgess said:

we had a guy last weekend fire a round after a squib with his open gun. the spontaneous disassembly was impressive. luckily it was limited to the gun and he swapped to his backup and finished the match.

 

Wow... that guy was lucky... 

[MikeBurgess]

Just now, Maximis228 said:

Wow... that guy was lucky... 

very, he even successfully argued for 1 less FTSA because the barrel was clear so by definition he shot at the target

 

[motosapiens]

16 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

not really nobody around me shoot 38, we all hate picking up brass

 

i prefer picking up brass to picking up slide fragments, lol.

everyone near me shoots 38sc.

[VU2AKILL]

5 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

very, he even successfully argued for 1 less FTSA because the barrel was clear so by definition he shot at the target

 

Gamer to the end!!  love it.

[Powder Finger]

Looks like the mag well survived

[StefVanHauwe]

3 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

we had a guy last weekend fire a round after a squib with his open gun. the spontaneous disassembly was impressive. luckily it was limited to the gun and he swapped to his backup and finished the match.

 

Ouch, luckily no one got hurt.

[MikeBurgess]

4 hours ago, motosapiens said:

i prefer picking up brass to picking up slide fragments, lol.

everyone near me shoots 38sc.

They do, its surprising how much monkey see monkey do is involved in this (and most other) sports.

I put a 38 barrel and comp together in one of my guns for a friend to try before he ordered another Infinity to see if it made enough difference to make picking up brass worth it, he decided no 9mm was just fine.

Around here there is 1 guy regularly and he's already asking about a new barrel.

 

 

 

[motosapiens]

32 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

They do, its surprising how much monkey see monkey do is involved in this (and most other) sports.

I put a 38 barrel and comp together in one of my guns for a friend to try before he ordered another Infinity to see if it made enough difference to make picking up brass worth it, he decided no 9mm was just fine.

Around here there is 1 guy regularly and he's already asking about a new barrel.

 

For sure, monkey-see-monkey-do makes sense, because if you're spending 5+k on a gun, you'd like it to work, so a reasonable person would tend to look at the guys around him who have flawless running guns and ask some questions.

 

my thoughts before we ordered tresa's gun is that I know 9mm has higher pressures, and I know 9mm is finickier about feeding, and since everyone here shoots 38 and we work a couple big matches a year, brass is not a problem.

 

Yes, I do have to pick it up (but she helps), and since it's all the same headstamp, it behaves pretty consistently in the press and in the gun. 9mm brass can be all over the map it terms of primer seating and brass quality. To me it seems just as easy to pick up 38 brass as to be picky about 9mm brass and have to spend more time and care to get the gun running.

 

Anyway, I pick up my 9mm, 40 and 45 brass too and that's why we can both retire at the end of this year.

Edited August 18, 2023 by motosapiens

[shred]

I have 100K+ each on my 38 SC Dawsons.  One cracked a slide around 60K IIRC.  The other is still on the original slide, although both are on barrel #2 each.  My otherwise-identical 9 Major gun got to about 30K before the slide cracked.  9 Major is usually higher pressure, slides are going to crack sooner.   

 

All that said, at 25K+ rounds, the cost of a new slide isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, as long as your gunsmith is willing to fit a new one in reasonable time.

 

 

 

[engineerjet]

Happened to a guy in my squad, he didnt even notice and finished the stage after it blew off. First time seeing key holes at a match. He claimed the gun was super old and definitely live a long happy life, lol. i think it was over 50k rounds?

[RJH]

39 minutes ago, engineerjet said:

Happened to a guy in my squad, he didnt even notice and finished the stage after it blew off. First time seeing key holes at a match. He claimed the gun was super old and definitely live a long happy life, lol. i think it was over 50k rounds?

 

 

That reminds me of the time I was ROing guy and his comp flew off. Well, it's been awhile I might not have been roing maybe I was just standing there when it happened LOL

[barry]

In 33 years of this game am on my 4th hi cap open gun. Early p9 in 9x21 doesn't count as its life span was very short with an impressive number of barrels  with locking lugs eaten and lots of broken slide stops.1 Caspian and 3 2011s still have all 3 2011s. Newest I built this spring. Average 15000 rds a year. All old school 38 super. Have built several 9mm major guns for friends.  Slides should last at least 50000 rds. Some go 150000. Barrels  until accuracy suffers. 10000 or so. Had lug at  front of trigger guard on sti frame break but a talented tig welder fixed that .can't think of any other parts that have broken. Maybe a hammer sear set or two. Guns get top end cleaned 2 weeks before a major and full cleaning 2 weeks before nationals. Don't mind picking brass and if the $300 worth of brass I go thru a year makes a difference I need a different  hobby.