Idpa rank/match bump?

[ddc]

41 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

@ddc So many IDPA shooters do this. It never really made sense to me TBH. 

 

Yeah, I don't get it either.

 

Kramer dominates the dojo

[rowdyb]

There was a time not long ago when there was no 'equity bump' in idpa. Now you can't be classified more than one division apart with pistols, so there is no one who is say MA in ssp and and then MM in esp. 

 

That used to happen a long time ago, but the rules changed.

[Duck_Duckalo]

5 hours ago, ddc said:

 

So, for example,  you think it would be cool to be good enough to be a Master in ESP but still be classified as a Novice in SSP so you could get all those match bumps from Marksman on up? And then do it all over again with CO?

 

Those would be great accomplishments?

Well since you put it that way not so much. I'm just thinking of the work I've been doing to get as far as I have. But there are more talented individuals that could likely take no time for these other divisions.

[Racinready300ex]

13 hours ago, rowdyb said:

There was a time not long ago when there was no 'equity bump' in idpa. Now you can't be classified more than one division apart with pistols, so there is no one who is say MA in ssp and and then MM in esp. 

 

That used to happen a long time ago, but the rules changed.

 

 

SOP in IDPA, start as MM or NV in a division shoot until you get bumped. Then switch divisions, repeat until you've gotten bumps in all divisions. The start back at square one getting all the bumps to the next level. Repeat for several years until you make MA finally. Then feel like the sport has nothing left to offer and quit. Most of the people I see doing this don't really practice and do not believe they could ever be DC. This is probably why they get burned out once they finally get to MA

 

[Joe4d]

53 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

 

SOP in IDPA, start as MM or NV in a division shoot until you get bumped. Then switch divisions, repeat until you've gotten bumps in all divisions. The start back at square one getting all the bumps to the next level. Repeat for several years until you make MA finally. Then feel like the sport has nothing left to offer and quit. Most of the people I see doing this don't really practice and do not believe they could ever be DC. This is probably why they get burned out once they finally get to MA

 

these bumps only happen at higher level matches ? or all matches with enough shooters ? and do clubs still do the 90 round classifier ? I also seem to recall a new 5X5 something or other classifier. I guess I could read the rule book..LOL,,
I dont even know if there is any IDPA close enough to me for me.  

 

[Jim Watson]

On 9/28/2023 at 5:46 AM, IHAVEGAS said:

My favorite concept of a handicap system would be to take the USPSA system and revise percentages so you have closer to an even spread in d-c-b-a-m-gm and to add a kicker downward so that classifications were not stuck on your best effort from 20 years ago.

 

I once read that in the early days, it was the other way 'round.

A was a half dozen guys who would dominate a match.  If one was there he would win.  If two were there they were competing for first and second place.  

B was a half dozen guys who would lead if none of the As showed up.

C was the top half of the general crowd, D was the bottom half.  

 

17 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

The part it gets murky on now is reloading with one in the chamber is allowed, but you can't reload in the open if you're exposed to a unengaged target. But what's considered exposed is where it gets funny. Even if you can't see the target because there is a wall between you and it, unless that wall is cover you're still exposed to it.

 

I know an MD who really pushes the "vision barrier" gimmick.

No, you can't see those targets from behind the vision barrier and no, you can't reload there, either.  You have to move to where you can.  The activities at the last POC are wonderful to see.  

[Jim Watson]

Oops.

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Jim Watson
Double struck.

[ddc]

1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

these bumps only happen at higher level matches ? or all matches with enough shooters ? and do clubs still do the 90 round classifier ? I also seem to recall a new 5X5 something or other classifier. I guess I could read the rule book..LOL,,
I dont even know if there is any IDPA close enough to me for me.  

 

 

Match bumps only from "sanctioned" matches. i.e. in USPSA parlance level 2 or higher. (IDPA uses "tiers" instead of "levels")

 

The 90 round classifier is no longer even listed as an option as far as I know. I think the 72 round classifier still is but everybody just runs the 5x5 classifier as far as I know.

 

The 5x5 is a dumbed down classifier. We could always bitch and complain about how dumb it is if we run out of other things to argue about... 

[Racinready300ex]

1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

these bumps only happen at higher level matches ? or all matches with enough shooters ? and do clubs still do the 90 round classifier ? I also seem to recall a new 5X5 something or other classifier. I guess I could read the rule book..LOL,,
I dont even know if there is any IDPA close enough to me for me.  

 

 

They happen at level 2 and higher matches. To get a match bump now you have to beat 5 people. So if you're Marksmen and win Marksmen class and beat 5 MM or higher you get bumped. If you're 2nd you need to beat 10, 3rd beat 15 and so on. There is not real limit for bumps. 

 

This is how we've gone from having 2-4 Masters at a match to having 50-60 Masters at a match. 

[Joe4d]

24 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

They happen at level 2 and higher matches. To get a match bump now you have to beat 5 people. So if you're Marksmen and win Marksmen class and beat 5 MM or higher you get bumped. If you're 2nd you need to beat 10, 3rd beat 15 and so on. There is not real limit for bumps. 

 

This is how we've gone from having 2-4 Masters at a match to having 50-60 Masters at a match. 

looking like they dont want new shooters,, websights not updated since 2015,,, dead links under clubs on the IDPA page.. kinda half assed. Hah kinda how I remember IDPA

Edited September 29, 2023 by Joe4d

[Racinready300ex]

33 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

looking like they dont want new shooters,, websights not updated since 2015,,, dead links under clubs on the IDPA page.. kinda half assed. Hah kinda how I remember IDPA

 

Probably, I don't really use the webpage much so I haven't had issue with it. But, they still suffers from a lot of the same issues. It can be fun, leans vary heavy on accuracy. Vary different from uspsa. If the choice is between uspsa and idpa, uspsa is better for sure. 

[rowdyb]

As I've said many times, "If you're good at sand bagging you only do it once."

Yeah, people plaque and match bump hunt all the time.

 

Interesting thought, to match bump you only need to beat 5 people at that day and time. But to do it via the classifier, you have to be ALL the people who shot it to get the numbers used. So bumping via the classifier is actually a skill "win" over a greater number of people.....

 

And yes, I was at the Nats where the 5x5 data was gathered and I did shoot it.

Edited September 29, 2023 by rowdyb

[Racinready300ex]

53 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

As I've said many times, "If you're good at sand bagging you only do it once."

Yeah, people plaque and match bump hunt all the time.

 

Interesting thought, to match bump you only need to beat 5 people at that day and time. But to do it via the classifier, you have to be ALL the people who shot it to get the numbers used. So bumping via the classifier is actually a skill "win" over a greater number of people.....

 

And yes, I was at the Nats where the 5x5 data was gathered and I did shoot it.

 

At this point the 5x5 is much harder than getting a bump to MA. I don't think I'm going out on a limb to say  most MA's in this area can't shoot MA classification on the 5x5 and have likely never shot the longer 70 round classifier.

 

I've never shot the longer one for real, never even seen it done. I did play with it in practice some back when they first released it. 

[JoeMKY]

I recently discovered that there was a match bump in IDPA state match, when I got bumped from Novice in CDP to MM which I'm glad, I wanted out of Novice and tried the classifier the month before and ended up having holster issues which slowed me down and well kept me as Novice.

 

I've done the 90, 70 and 5x5 and I like the 5x5 since it is quick...Is it harder...when I did the 90 and 70 I was running ssp and when the 5x5 came out, I was shooting CO and CDP...so not sure until I can run ssp against the 5x5.

[ddc]

The old 90 round classifier was a reasonably comprehensive skill test, at least compared to the 5x5.

The 72 was still ok, not quit as complete.

Edited September 29, 2023 by ddc

[rowdyb]

True, having shot MA on the older 90 round it was indeed a way to separate people. And it was definitely a broad test of match skills. No surprise, given its similarly to the Hackathorn standards. (Google the name new kids)

 

Personally, if I can't shoot MA in any division on the 5x5 cold, then something is wrong with me.

[waktasz]

The biggest issue with the old one is that it took absolutely forever to run a large group of people through it. The best thing about bumping to M was never having to shoot that thing again, let alone once a year in whatever division you wanted to play in.

[rowdyb]

Because many of you have never seen, or even shot, here is me doing it and talking about the strategy to do well on it.

https://youtu.be/41RIqO-H49s?si=n5n8hAOnY9z7qSEm

[waktasz]

Honestly the old one required more thought. You could push speed a bit more and afford to drop a couple points or go slower and get the points. The current iteration of IDPA is down zero or bust, there's no choice in the matter. 

 

Although I guess that applies to the whole sport now not just the classifier

Edited September 29, 2023 by waktasz

[rowdyb]

I just watched my video of the 2017 idpa classifier and I say you shoukd be able to make MA with the new one easier if you practice at all and aren't a wuss.

 

Haha I was definitely blunt

[Joe4d]

1 hour ago, waktasz said:

The biggest issue with the old one is that it took absolutely forever to run a large group of people through it. The best thing about bumping to M was never having to shoot that thing again, let alone once a year in whatever division you wanted to play in.

was definitely tedious. 

[Joe4d]

Coulda just done stage 3 really.. as that pretty much was make it or break it.

 

[racknrider]

5 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

At this point the 5x5 is much harder than getting a bump to MA. I don't think I'm going out on a limb to say  most MA's in this area can't shoot MA classification on the 5x5 and have likely never shot the longer 70 round classifier.

 

I've never shot the longer one for real, never even seen it done. I did play with it in practice some back when they first released it. 

I’m in the opposite camp. I shoot MA in the 5x5 but only mid EX in the 72 or 90

[ddc]

2 hours ago, racknrider said:

I’m in the opposite camp. I shoot MA in the 5x5 but only mid EX in the 72 or 90

 

That doesn't surprise me. I haven't shot the 90 in years but my gut is that I'd score higher on the 5x5 if I did them back to back.

 

The 5x5 is analogous to a single USPSA classifier. It might make sense as part of a larger library where scores are averaged or accumulated or what ever turns you on but as a single definitive exercise I just don't get it.

[Racinready300ex]

@racknrider The 90 doesn't exist anymore, and the times from it are based on .5 second scoring. So making it today if you use full second scoring would probably be pretty spicy. 

 

IIRC the times were like low 90's back then and I think Steoger at one point put up a video of him shooting it in like 65. Some what put into perspective the gap that existed back then.

 

I'm sure the 72 is harder than the 5x5