IPSC Standard Optics division

[shred]

There's a significant chance they'll make it Minor only because there's large parts of the world where reloading is forbidden and even 9mm ammo is expensive, let alone .40 or 9x23.  On the other hand a lot of the old guard (whatever remains) really think the "V" in DVC ought to mean something, so we'll see. 

 

FWIW, the last IPSC Major/minor division created (Classic) was dominated by Minor at the last World Shoot, although the time before that was won (barely) by a Major shooter.

 

IIRC IPSC's PCC is a separate match, not rifles shooting with the pistol shooters.

 

[Schutzenmeister]

3 hours ago, shred said:

 

IIRC IPSC's PCC is a separate match, not rifles shooting with the pistol shooters.

 

 

Correct.  PCC is a completely separate rule book from HG.  Nevertheless, PCC matches are frequently run concurrently with a HG match.

[perttime]

4 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said:

 

Correct.  PCC is a completely separate rule book from HG.  Nevertheless, PCC matches are frequently run concurrently with a HG match.

At our spring Level 2 IPSC Match, PCC squads shot last and one or two stages were changed a little for them. Some different target placements or a few Mini targets, instead of regular.

[Thomx]

On 7/29/2023 at 12:45 AM, shred said:

There's a significant chance they'll make it Minor only because there's large parts of the world where reloading is forbidden and even 9mm ammo is expensive, let alone .40 or 9x23.  On the other hand a lot of the old guard (whatever remains) really think the "V" in DVC ought to mean something, so we'll see. 

 

FWIW, the last IPSC Major/minor division created (Classic) was dominated by Minor at the last World Shoot, although the time before that was won (barely) by a Major shooter.

 

IIRC IPSC's PCC is a separate match, not rifles shooting with the pistol shooters.

 

Yeah but in Classic, in major you'll have to do more reloads where you can lose time. So it depends on the match if it is better to shoot major or minor. A strategic question.

 

In standard, the magazine capacity in major or minor doesn't make a difference, you can always reload while moving and you won't lose time. So for the top shooters it will always be better to shoot major instead of minor. There are some examples of shooters who won in minor (Gaston Quindi Vallerga, Nils Jonasson), but they would have won in major.

So shooting standard minor is 99.99% a disadvantage over shooting major

[shred]

You get more rounds shooting Minor in Standard unless you're in Canada or somewhere like that with mag restrictions.  Not enough to make a big difference most of the time, but the point with Classic is even trying to balance it, most people worldwide shoot minor in it and the IPSC RDs won't ignore that.

 

Modified was Standard Optics-with-a-comp, but one big reason it got killed because it wasn't popular in a lot of regions due to the major PF ammo hassle.  I'd be extremely happy to see Modified come back, but I'm pretty confident it won't.

 

 

 

[Schutzenmeister]

1 hour ago, shred said:

 

Modified was Standard Optics-with-a-comp, but one big reason it got killed because it wasn't popular in a lot of regions due to the major PF ammo hassle.  I'd be extremely happy to see Modified come back, but I'm pretty confident it won't.

 

 

Personally, I think the biggest thing that killed Modified was the fit in the Standard box requirement ... It took some really insane engineering to pull that off.  If IPSC were to attempt Standard Optics with the same box requirement Modified had thenI don't care what the caliber is, it'll be DOA.

[shred]

If they delete comps it won't be difficult to fit the box.  Cutout a slot for a dot and most any Standard gun can play, but even without a stock 4.25" Springfield Prodigy with their factory dot fits the IPSC box, I just tried.  A smaller-than-SRO dot or shorter slide on a CZ Shadow 2 OR would fit although some mag adjustments might be needed.

 

This might actually be a fun division in IPSC or USPSA-- fits the box with mag, no comps or ports.

 

[Schutzenmeister]

Hmmm ... I wouldn't have thought they'd fit.

[shred]

Prodigy would fit better without the iron sights or with the usual shaving of basepads, but it sneaks in without.

 

Much easier fit in the USPSA box (not shown).

 

 

[Blackstone45]

7 hours ago, shred said:

Prodigy would fit better without the iron sights or with the usual shaving of basepads, but it sneaks in without.

 

Much easier fit in the USPSA box (not shown).

 

 

Technically the gun has to be placed so that the slide is pretty much parallel with the longest side of the box.

[Schutzenmeister]

That rule came about AFTER they did away with Modified Division.  There's no reason they couldn't change it again for a new division.

[shred]

1 hour ago, Schutzenmeister said:

That rule came about AFTER they did away with Modified Division.  There's no reason they couldn't change it again for a new division.

This.  the 'mostly parallel' language is a recent (and unnecessary IMO) change which is only in the equipment appendices for Standard and Classic, and so could easily be left out of any new division without changing any other rules.

 

If you want parallel to the side, you need an optic window in the box which defeats the original purpose of the box which was to make a space for handgun innovation in a 'practical' size package (not at all coincidentally the size of a 5" 1911)

 

[terrydoc]

      Doesn't look all that parallel to me

[terrydoc]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RzHhXpZtqWc/Uw_6YIYFaoI/AAAAAAAABKM/HyCZGjgaYqs/s1600/100_3038.JPG

Edited August 2, 2023 by terrydoc

[WFargo]

I just read a message on our IPSC forum in the Netherlands:  IPSC region Brazil just issued a proposal for IPSC Standard Optics division!!!! 

 

Sh#t... just sold all my double stacks!   

[WFargo]

Here's the draft appendix with 'rules'. 

[shred]

Cut and paste from Standard with a box window, except they also copied the 'no racker-mounts for the dot' language from PO even though rackers are allowed in Std. ???

 

At least its Major/Minor, but IMO no box window would have been much more interesting and "practical".

 

And again with the silly mandatory optic, but hey most USPSA LO pistols can probably be made to fit with a magwell and mag swap, so there is that.

[xrayfk05]

2 minutes ago, shred said:

Cut and paste from Standard with a box window, except they also copied the 'no racker-mounts for the dot' language from PO even though rackers are allowed in Std. ???

 

Even though racker may be technically allowed the gun has to fit the box which is only 1.77" high

Personally I have never seen a racker on a standaard gun.

[BritinUSA]

I can see the racker rule being removed, as you stated rackets are allowed in Standard division. I like that they are proposing Major/Minor. It helps to separate it from ProdOptics. 

[Thomx]

What about the optic eating the 40sw energy ?

[Kema]

3 hours ago, Thomx said:

What about the optic eating the 40sw energy ?

Slideride

[MikeyScuba]

6 hours ago, Kema said:

Slideride

I love sliderides but how is that going to fit?

[shred]

10 hours ago, Thomx said:

What about the optic eating the 40sw energy ?

Modified guys made it work on frame mounts and that was with dots a lot more fragile than some you can get today.

 

[perttime]

A more local group is showing a couple of concerns:

- what dot sight is going to survive Major loads when mounted on the slide?

- the proposed rule does not allow mounting the dot on the "normal" rail on the Laugo Alien.

[shred]

Yes, the Laguo, purposely built to be a gamer gun has people annoyed about it.  Who knew?

 

I would guess RMRs will probably hold up.  SROs for quite a while.  There's really not that much shock difference between light 9mm slides and heavier .40 slides.