The Bad Gunsmith Challenge

[kimel]

If you mailed him the check and it went through US Mail your first stop needs to be the US Postal Inspector's office near you. I had a problem a few years ago with an by-mail purchase where I mailed a check which was cashed and never got the product.

Postal Inspector's office did a bit of investigating and I got the product I ordered and most of my money back about a week later. Postal fraud equals Felony equals time in the big house. The dollar amount you are talking here heads this off into grand larceny. Talk to the Postal Inspector first as they are Federal. If they won't help get a lawyer and go after him via the Missouri Attorney General. Immediately put liens against anything you can possibly attach.

Don't forget to include all your damages in the suit.

Then go get medieval on his ass. (Oh man...I gotta go watch that movie again tonight!)

Or invite him to the wedding...with a 1 way plane ticket.

[Anthony Lombardo]

is this NW?

[dirtypool40]

Anthony pm sent.

I'm getting pm's with the same suggestion; get letigious on his buttocks. You wanna really slap me? My Dad's a lawyer. I know all about the state lines, wire fraud, mail fraud, blah blah blah.

But alas, you can't get blood out of a rock. I'm just bitching as therapy.

This guy was a friend of mine and I hope he gets his $h1t together someday. I was his biggest fan.

The two things I hate the most were lying right to me about the status of that gun when I really needed it, and letting down the customers I sent him.

The time I have wasted without guns as a result of him is just a tough lesson learned.

[Flyin40]

Makes me appreciate my smith all that much more. He recieve my parts 11/21 he finished the pistol on 12/8.

Flyin40

[kimel]

"was" a friend. Okay, you got the right outlook on things then.

Obviously you valued the friendship far more than he did and that truly sux.

Been down that path once and I know all too well how disheartening it can be and to be honest I have never been able to trust anyone to that same extent since (other than my wife).

Live and learn, crash and burn...as they say.

[ima45dv8]

The more I think about it, I believe Merlin's on to something. A terrible thing got hold of this guy. Drugs, depression, who-knows-what. I'm glad I'm not in his place/mind.

[dirtypool40]

The honest truth is I am sad not mad. This guy was a friend of mine and is the most gifted gunsmith I have ever seen. Nice guy too. I like his family and I had Handgunner ready to feature a gun for him. Ted Nugent, Bill Wilson and others go to him for rifle work.

He's a gunsmith savant. A tempermental artist who can't say no but can't manage himself either.

I ran into him by pure chance and the first job he did was a 1 week turn around and looked like it belonged on a magazine cover.

The sad truth is he needs a manger to say no for him. His wife runs a dental office, so she could definitely do it, but they have three kids and need the insurance.

His problem is he does great work. Folks drive up to his ranch and say "I really need you to help me out. I'm leaving in the morning for this big hunt I've been planning for a year". And he does. Next time, they drive up with a van full of guns to have scopes mounted and triggers tuned.

Really, my stuff sat on the bench and got pushed around so long he literally lost some of my small parts.

He's kinda manic and doesn't sleep or even spend much time in the house. They say he's in the shop all the time, but never gets anything done.

Then late, sometimes six months or more, and with no comminucation he sends out a customer's gun, with a bill in full and no explanation.

He is shocked when people are mad and don't write a check that day.

If you're in Mo, I'll bet you know him or have seen his guns. His name is xxxxxx and he's really a good guy. I don't know how he got this far gone, I hope he gets his $hit together.

[james57]

Eric,

I just sent you a PM as I am one of your fifteen that had to go to [edit] to retrieve my gun after 3.5 months.

James in KC

Edited December 17, 2005 by Flexmoney

[Carmoney]

It's really too bad that the 99% of gunsmiths who are rotten bastards tend to give the entire profession a bad name......

[Merlin Orr]

It's really too bad that the 99% of gunsmiths who are rotten bastards tend to give the entire profession a bad name......

I'm not sure how you ment that but I had to laugh...

[SiG Lady]

Wow, and I thought I had a problem when I ordered my Valtro/1911 and still didn't have it 18 months later...! (That was August 2003... and I STILL haven't heard a thing about it. )

But THIS story takes the cake and the grand prize for exquisite misery! GAH!!!!!

I have a local gunsmith who's TOTALLY reliable, talented and cool. I feel soooooo lucky.

[JRBean]

Dude you are way to nice. After all that money, stress, and matches missed I'd be entering a temp insanity plee for putting his head in a vise. Not to mention the money you will still have to spend to have the work done that he didn't do. Friend or no friend he deserves to have the screws put to him.

I had situation come up a few years ago where I shipped an open gun to a gunsmith to be rebarreled. He was the original builder of the gun and I'd done some business with him before. After a few months I called to see how things were going because he usually has a very quick turn around. He said he didn't recall receiving the gun and he'd check into it. After tracking the package it showed him having signed for it but the signature didn't look exactly like his. He did some more searching and still couldn't find any trace of the gun. He offered to either build me a new one or send me one of his personal guns that was basically indentical to the one I sent him. I decided on the personal gun since the one I lost wasn't near being new. He even installed a new C-more and a new grip. Now that is not only being a honest businessman but being one hell of a nice guy.

I hope you are able to get this matter resolved.

Edited December 18, 2005 by JRBean

[Nik Habicht]

Eric,

on the bright side, if you believe in karma, we now KNOW why Andrea agreed to marry you.........

.....you used all your bad luck up on guns......

[j1b]

I just want to say I appreciate Eric's approach to this matter.

He has a friend. Friends aren't like pencils, they don't come and go. They are, in fact, like that special gun we all have hidden away. Maybe a couple of them. They are special and although I've retired a few, I still own them and I still cherish them.

I hate what happened to you. Too often in business we confuse skill with the ability to actually run a business. I was traveling with a business leader yesterday and he was talking about people who could do incredible things but lacked the business leadership, leadership being the key word, to do what we needed.

Eric, you know best that the money will come and go. The friendship and the bond will not. Perhaps this will change that friendship but it likely will not change the bond.

I'm glad you've vented and glad you've moved on. Hopefully your next experience will be a good one.

J

[Genghis]

Maybe it would help to assemble a list of Commandments for gunsmiths:

1. [reserved for the most important one]

2. Don't make promises you can't keep (especially promises of when it'll be ready).

3. Don't ever lie to a customer. Ever.

4. Customer service is your #1 job.

5. Treat every problem as a customer service issue.

6. One mad customer will cancel out ten happy ones. Or erase the benefit of a thousand dollars in advertising or sponsorships.

7. It's not whether problems arise (they will), it's how you handle them. Solve them. Do whatever it takes to make this happen.

8. Explain pricing up front and get the customer's approval. If there are any changes, explain them up front and get the customer's approval.

What else?

[bgary]

I don't know if I can "beat" that one, but...

There was once a local smith near where I lived, and when I first moved to the area he was pointed out as the best "race gun" doctor in the area. So... when it came time to have some things done, I gave him my trusty Para .45 and asked him to do sights and a trigger job on it. He said he would have it back to me in a couple of weeks.

So I waited a couple weeks, and just so as not to be impolite, a couple of weeks more. Finally called, he said he "wasn't quite done with it yet". Said it would be a couple more weeks.

[to make a long story short, we went thru several cycles like this]

Finally, after a *year* had gone by, I gave up and said "can I just have my gun back?" At that point, his tune changed. He said.... "I don't think I have your gun. Do you have a claim-check number for it?" Since he hadn't given me any form of claim check, that was a little worrisome. We went back and forth for about 6 months, with me calling him to remind him to give me back my gun, him saying that he didn't have it, then "finding" it in his safe and saying he would bring it to the next match.

After about 6 months of this, I made arrangements to go to his shop to pick up the gun. He wasn't there. I called him, told him he needed to get my gun to me within 7 days. He said he didn't have it. I *finally* got ticked, and said "great, can you confirm that such-and-such is the address of your place of business? Because my next call is to the BATF, because my gun has apparently been stolen, and you were the last one to see it."

All of a sudden, he "remembered" that he had my gun, and I finally got it back the following weekend. With the a hacked-up trigger job that was so bad, I ended up taking it to *another* gunsmith just to get it back to running again.

B

[MBaneACP]

WOW!

Bummer...reminds me of one of the gunsmiths for "Rex the Wonder Gun," my steel Commander that got used in about a zillion gun-mag articles. Gunsmith wanted to show me what he could do, so I gave him Rex. He checkered the frontstrap, cutting through into the magazine well in about a dozen places. Milled out the slide for a Bo-Mar...apparently using a beaver to do the cutting. Fitted a new barrel that would neither fit nor shoot better groups than a garbage can lid at 7 yards. Topped iit alll by bumper-chroming the frame, after the first magazine, the chrome started peeling off and the gun seized up solid as a rock and had to be hammered apart. I refused to pay the $600 or so bucks; the gunsmith suggested he was a "bad man" and might just take it upon himself to separate me from my money with a gun. I suggested that he go right ahead, as long as he was using one of the guns he'd 'smithed!

Michael B

[dirtypool40]

ok, that's a pretty good one. But I can trump it.

I just got an email from a BENOS member, saying he was one of the guys I referred. He said this guy was grumbling about ME OWING HIM MONEY!!!

That's a nice kick in the nuts when you're trying to remain calm about this.

I understand he's pissed that some customers took a while to pay after he shipped them the gun late and with no bill. But I have ALWAYS paid this guy in full with a smile on my face.

The shame of it all is, every time I receive a gun from this guy it's nicer than the last one and it wipes the slate clean. Well, at this point, let's hope I have learned.

[Merlin Orr]

"Well, at this point, let's hope I have learned"

Reminds me of what my ole Pappy used to tell me...constantly.

"Experence is a hard school, but it's the only one a fool can learn in."

[zhunter]

DP

It pains me to read this thread.

I know the absolute worst thing you can do to him.

Sick that NEW Latina wife on his Azz, that will teach him.

[bgary]

He said this guy was grumbling about ME OWING HIM MONEY!!!

Oh, that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

Had a custom gun built by a guy. We agreed on a price, he delivered what I wanted, on time, decent customer service, gun was done well, ran great, everything was copacetic. When we did the transfer, I got a receipt that said "paid in full". Thought we were all done...

...until about three years *after* we had concluded our business, I get an email from him, saying that I owe him money and I should get in touch with him immediately. Turns out he "forgot" to figure in excise tax on a whole lot of guns he had built, the state was after him and he... in turn... was going thru his log book, trying to squeeze all his (former) customers for enough money to cover his mistake.

Bruce

[Liota]

You guys are making me feel extremely grateful for the gunsmiths/friends I have. Not one bad experience yet. Thank God for that.

Liota

[Rob Boudrie]

Not a gunsmith, but a match food vendor, once got a letter like this from me which went like this:

"I'm sorry you threw out the $700 money order for food in error. Our treasurer has contacted the bank, and they will issue a replacement money order only after a 6 month wait. If you had not treated us as a bad check risk and insisted on certified funds, we would have been able to enclose a replacement check with this letter."

[rubberneck]

He said this guy was grumbling about ME OWING HIM MONEY!!!

That is wrong on some many levels that it defies logic. Reading this thread it makes me greatful for the wonderful working realtionship I have with the guys at EGW.

[PaulW]

Eric has told me in length all and the whole horror story. If this jackass Gunsmith(he should not even be called a G.S.) had half a nut he would of least met Eric face-to-face. I was so pissed when Eric was telling me everything and Eric was calm as a cucumber. Maybe it's the "gettin ready to get married" thing, I don't know.

If anyone wants this guys name just email me.

The only thing I would let this guy do is, well, nothing. I can't even think of a smartass thing to say.