Zahnarzt Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Is it common to need to re-sight in red dot optics often? On a recent range trip, I noticed the red dot sights on 3 of my pistols were not zeroed, whereas they had been fine the last time these 3 were fired at the range maybe a month ago. The first is a Holosun 507K on an Sig P365XL. The second is a Vortex Venom on a Walther Q5 SF. And the third is a Vortex Venom on an HK VP9L.All 3 have the optics mounted on the slide. I haven’t noticed any issues with the mounting screws loosening. None of them were dropped. They all seem to have a consistent issue. Point of impact is lower than point of aim, by a significant amount.At first I thought maybe I was just having a bad day with accuracy and my trigger control was haphazard. But my wife who is a decent shooter had the same issue to about the same degree. So there’s a chance we were both having a bad day with accuracy, but I really doubt it.What’s also strange is as I attempt to re-sight in the optics, I reach the limit of the optic in how far I can adjust. Any thoughts/help is much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Check and see if the bottom of the glass is moving forward out of the housing. When that happens the POI moves downward, and you run out of adjustment. I've seen it happen a couple of times (recoil is pretty rough on slide- mounted scopes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Zahnarzt said: Is it common to need to re-sight in red dot optics often? On a recent range trip, I noticed the red dot sights on 3 of my pistols were not zeroed, whereas they had been fine the last time these 3 were fired at the range maybe a month ago. The first is a Holosun 507K on an Sig P365XL. The second is a Vortex Venom on a Walther Q5 SF. And the third is a Vortex Venom on an HK VP9L.All 3 have the optics mounted on the slide. I haven’t noticed any issues with the mounting screws loosening. None of them were dropped. They all seem to have a consistent issue. Point of impact is lower than point of aim, by a significant amount.At first I thought maybe I was just having a bad day with accuracy and my trigger control was haphazard. But my wife who is a decent shooter had the same issue to about the same degree. So there’s a chance we were both having a bad day with accuracy, but I really doubt it.What’s also strange is as I attempt to re-sight in the optics, I reach the limit of the optic in how far I can adjust. Any thoughts/help is much appreciated. Either whoever mounted your optics did a terrible job or you're the unluckiest guy alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 What distance had you previously zeroed them at, what distance did you shoot them today, and how far did the group move? The odds are small that all three moved, and in the same direction, all at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahnarzt Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 6 hours ago, teros135 said: Check and see if the bottom of the glass is moving forward out of the housing. When that happens the POI moves downward, and you run out of adjustment. I've seen it happen a couple of times (recoil is pretty rough on slide- mounted scopes). Will do. Thanks for the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahnarzt Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 3 hours ago, GJM said: What distance had you previously zeroed them at, what distance did you shoot them today, and how far did the group move? The odds are small that all three moved, and in the same direction, all at the same time. All were zeroed at 10yrds. All were shot that day at the same distance. They were all low about the same distance. It was fairly significant but I don’t know exactly how far. I’m taking 2 of them back to the range this week. I’ll post a pic of my targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahnarzt Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 4 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said: Either whoever mounted your optics did a terrible job or you're the unluckiest guy alive. This isn’t helpful at all. What’s your point about the mounting of the optic? If the screws aren’t loose and there is no sign of movement of the red dot sight, then why would you think the mount was bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Might you have changed your grip? That could affect how you shot all three guns... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 14 minutes ago, Zahnarzt said: This isn’t helpful at all. What’s your point about the mounting of the optic? If the screws aren’t loose and there is no sign of movement of the red dot sight, then why would you think the mount was bad? How do you know the optic isn't moving? Did you put a test indicator to it to make sure? It takes just a few thousands of an inch of movement or shift at the optic to radically change your POI. You can't even feel .001 - .003 inch of movement. But hey the screws are tight so that can't be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich406 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Same ammo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 20 years ago a top shooter told me "when you go to practice, shoot a group when you get to the range and right before you leave shoot another group so you know your sights are still on for next time you pull it out of the bag". I still do that and it's saved me from cratering the first stage at a match more than once. It's unusual that you are hitting the limit on the dots before getting back to zero (unless you're adjusting the wrong way.. BTDT), although a 10-yard zero is going to take up quite a bit of that adjustment as you try to get the dot line down to the bore line if there's no slope in your dot mount. You'll also see a lot of change as you move the target in or out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 that is a good practice...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahnarzt Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 (edited) 23 hours ago, Rich406 said: Same ammo? Different ammo…initially I thought this might be the issue after others suggested, but now I’m thinking otherwise after seeing this: https://youtu.be/4HXhx1JbYx0 Edited February 14, 2023 by Zahnarzt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahnarzt Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 Planning to swap my Vortex Venom for a Holosun 507C that I have on another pistol. The video I referenced pointed out that the Venom in particular is likely better suited for mount on a non-reciprocating rail. The 507C is a heartier optic and will likely hold up better. I might have just reached the Venom’s limit…may have to send it back to Vortex for evaluation if I can’t zero it on my Volquartsen (22LR, pic rail mount…so it will be as gentle as can be on the optic). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich406 Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 29 minutes ago, Zahnarzt said: Different ammo…initially I thought this might be the issue after others suggested, but now I’m thinking otherwise after seeing this: https://youtu.be/4HXhx1JbYx0 Different ammo will absolutely change the POI. Sometimes by a couple inches or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich406 Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 21 minutes ago, Zahnarzt said: Planning to swap my Vortex Venom for a Holosun 507C that I have on another pistol. The video I referenced pointed out that the Venom in particular is likely better suited for mount on a non-reciprocating rail. The 507C is a heartier optic and will likely hold up better. I might have just reached the Venom’s limit…may have to send it back to Vortex for evaluation if I can’t zero it on my Volquartsen (22LR, pic rail mount…so it will be as gentle as can be on the optic). Didn’t you initially complain that the POI shifted with 3 guns and 2 different optics? If your ammo changed, I’d look there first. What changed? Brand? Grain? Bullet type? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahnarzt Posted February 16, 2023 Author Share Posted February 16, 2023 On 2/12/2023 at 5:39 PM, Johnny_Chimpo said: Either whoever mounted your optics did a terrible job or you're the unluckiest guy alive. Apparently there are quite a few others that you may consider unlucky. https://youtu.be/naLN3ehiYik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 It is possible to debate without talking trash about folks who own a particular brand optic or whatever. JC, you continually push the limits on rude tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGUNNER Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Did you ever figure out the problem? I own an indoor shooting range and have seen lots and lots of strange things. Lots of ammo related issues like no crimp on the case some no powder some bullets and primers upside down. All factory ammo. If I had to guess I would say ammo issue. Hard to believe hardware issues across all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta6 Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 On 2/13/2023 at 11:12 AM, shred said: 20 years ago a top shooter told me "when you go to practice, shoot a group when you get to the range and right before you leave shoot another group so you know your sights are still on for next time you pull it out of the bag". I still do that and it's saved me from cratering the first stage at a match more than once. It's unusual that you are hitting the limit on the dots before getting back to zero (unless you're adjusting the wrong way.. BTDT), although a 10-yard zero is going to take up quite a bit of that adjustment as you try to get the dot line down to the bore line if there's no slope in your dot mount. You'll also see a lot of change as you move the target in or out. Pretty good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakerjd Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 @shred i follow that same idea of check at begining and end of practice. Oddly enough at my last match this year i had done a practice session the Friday before. So 2 days prior to the match. I did have to sight in the dot ever so slightly at the end of practice. Thought nothing of it as I sometimes get really nit picky about POI/POA. Go to the match and everything is to the right on the target. Figured it's just my grip or what ever. Adjust my grip next stage and same issue. Durring the last stage I lost the dot but finished the stage. Did ok but not great. Went gome and started really looking at the dot. Found the glass was kind of an odd color on the bottom edge. Pushed on it a little and it popped out. Ahh well. Can't complain too much. It's been on 2 different CO guns and 1 open gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelCityShooter Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 On 2/12/2023 at 10:08 PM, Johnny_Chimpo said: But hey the screws are tight so that can't be it. The screws may be tight but if they are bottoming out in the tapped holes in the slide, the optic can move since it isn't tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 5 hours ago, SteelCityShooter said: The screws may be tight but if they are bottoming out in the tapped holes in the slide, the optic can move since it isn't tight. ^^ Likely your problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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