Most accurate load for S&W 625?

[Cherokeewind]

I need some help in trying to develop an accurate load for my 625 PC. 

 

I have a 2x scope on it right now and so far have only one hand load that shoots about 1 1/4" six shot groups from bags at 25 yards (fired single action).

That load is a jacketed 185 gr. HP with lots (ain't gonna say how much) Unique.  

 

All my lighter loads with 200 gr. FP and RN Xtreme bullets don't group much under 3 inches at 25 yards.  I have tried Clays, W231 and E3 with no real improvement. 

 

Haven't located any good quality cast bullets to try yet.

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

[MWP]

Order up a roll crimp die and see if that helps. 

[Joe4d]

order better bullets, Xtreme's suck. Go with a 452 cast poly coated bullet, a real jacketed or if you can find them Hornady HAP's those things are scary accurate.
Also use one of those jacketed bullets preloaded to check your cylinder throat make sure they arent smaller than the barrel grooves. Wouldnt be the first S&W with slightly small cylinder throats.
FAster powder like 231, 244, Sport pistol AA2 will probably give better results while staying in book specs.

[21 shooter]

I have used VV N310 in a 625 with 225 and 230 grain Bayou bullets with good accuracy. Burns really clean which was a big reason I tried it.  

[Cherokeewind]

I have checked cylinder throats by passing a .451 jacketed bullet through each chamber.  The bullets pass through of their own weight, when the chambers/throats are clean.

 

Just picked up a box of Hornady 230 XTPs and a box of Hornady 185 XTPs.  Will check them out.  Have had super good results with Hornady bullets in other revos.

 

I have W231, Clays, CFE , E3 and HS6 on hand.

 

Thanks

Jim

Edited January 10, 2023 by Cherokeewind
added info.

[pskys2]

My 625 groups shrink above 750 f/s.  

Is this for competition, hunting, plunking or self defense?

[Toolguy]

If you're having a hard time finding a load that shoots well, it's time to do a thorough check of the gun. The main things to look at are - Forcing cone, muzzle crown, barrel constriction, cylinder throat diameter (check all of them), and timing.

[Squirrel45]

Mine will run a 230g coated well with about 4g of WST or 5g of #2. If I recall 3.8g or 4g of clays was a good load as well however clays has gone on the endangered list lately. 

 

[pskys2]

23 minutes ago, Squirrel45 said:

Mine will run a 230g coated well with about 4g of WST or 5g of #2. If I recall 3.8g or 4g of clays was a good load as well however clays has gone on the endangered list lately. 

 

Clay Dot works same as clays.

[Bill Sahlberg]

185 gr Montana Gold JHPs with 5.7 gr of Titegroup made 925 fps at 1.235" oal and a ragged 6 shot group all rounds touching at 35 feet.

 

Grouped well with Montana Gold 230 gr JHPs with 5.2 gr of Bullseye at 895 fps but it is a much dirtier powder.

[Joe4d]

of your available powders Id probably go with the 231 for up top medium loads.  Those XTP's should shoot very well. If you dont get good accurate loads with them and 231, you have some other problem than bullets and powder.. Crown, bore, reloading techniques.
My 686 pro series barrel came new looking like it was cut off with a rusty hacksaw blade. Shot like doo doo till I sent it back to have the muzzle properly crowned.

[Cherokeewind]

Really don't think it's the revolver and I've been loading for many years so I suspect bullets first.

 

However, one thing that I haven't checked:

 

Most of the bullets I have been using do NOT have a crimping groove so to reduce bullet deformation I have been using a moderate crimp.

 

Are bullets creeping forward during recoil causing variations in case tension??  Maybe I need more crimp......Gotta check that next time out.

[Joe4d]

.,,  over crimp, under crimp, setback,,, well in an auto, in your case creep, was what I was refering to about reload technique.  Xtremes, are so so at best, but all the copper washed type bullets are sensitive to crimp issues it seems. 
Berry's used make a hollow based fairly soft 180 gr copper plated that worked like an old CIvil war mini bullet with really fast powders they things shot really well for a friend in his bulleseye 1911.  Then Berry went crazy on prices.
Most accurate auto caliber bullets I have used were Hornady HAP's,,   at one time they were reasonably priced.. Basically an XTP without the expansion cuts.

[Toolguy]

In my guns, I have never been able to get a good group out of copper plated bullets. I have tried Ranier and  Berry's in different weights and calibers. They all shot shotgun pattern type groups. In the same guns, I can get nearly one hole groups with polymer or powder coated lead, lubed and sized lead, and jacketed all day long.

[Cherokeewind]

I have had excellent accuracy from Xtreme 125 gr. .357 bullets in my 586 & 686;  1" six shot groups from scoped guns when testing for accuracy.

 

I hoped for similar with the 625 but no joy so far........time to try something better. 

[testosterone]

On 1/10/2023 at 10:36 PM, Joe4d said:

Xtremes, are so so at best, but all the copper washed type bullets are sensitive to crimp issues it seems. 
Berry's used make a hollow based fairly soft 180 gr copper plated that worked like an old CIvil war mini bullet with really fast powders they things shot really well for a friend in his bulleseye 1911.  Then Berry went crazy on prices.

 

extremes are really objectively bad in all my guns, the 147's tumble in my production/co 9mm's as close as 2 yards.   Its really bad.     the double plated 124's tumble in both my 2011 as well, but they are going so fast it doesn't matter for most uspsa distances...

 

berrys 158's in 38 special are very very good, possibly as good as fmj's.   One who came before spent alot of time developing a bianchi load with 158's for his k frame.   

His formula always was, crimp until it tumbles and then turn the crimp back 1/8th of a turn, and that will be right, this def puts a groove in them, but it produces the best result in his testing.

 

 

[gargoil66]

Guys:

 

A lot of you must have some bucks to shoot jacketed bullets.  Could never afford them in quantities needed to be competitive with the pistol. 

 

What happened to the HG 68 or SAECO 69, 205 grain SWC's?

 

Or, a 230 gr TC?

 

I can't quite envision a .45 shooter who didn't shoot the 205's due to their popularity.

 

Are these bullets no longer in vogue or have others just surpassed them in performance?

 

GG

[Toolguy]

These days, you have to cast your own to get those bullets, from what I've seen. The H&G 68 ruled the roost in 45s for many years.

[pskys2]

3 hours ago, gargoil66 said:

Guys:

 

A lot of you must have some bucks to shoot jacketed bullets.  Could never afford them in quantities needed to be competitive with the pistol. 

 

What happened to the HG 68 or SAECO 69, 205 grain SWC's?

 

Or, a 230 gr TC?

 

I can't quite envision a .45 shooter who didn't shoot the 205's due to their popularity.

 

Are these bullets no longer in vogue or have others just surpassed them in performance?

 

GG

In the semi auto divisions that use 45 acp it's either 230 r n or 200 swc, usually an updated version of the hg68.

In revolvers the sharp ledge hinders fast reloads.

The big problem is the divisions using 45 acp are not popular.  The 9mm is the go to cartridge in the popular divisions.

I've got over a thousand 45 acp 200 coated swc hg 68 loaded for my ss 1911 yet haven't shot ss in years.

Edited January 13, 2023 by pskys2

[gargoil66]

On 1/10/2023 at 6:47 PM, Cherokeewind said:

Really don't think it's the revolver and I've been loading for many years so I suspect bullets first.

 

However, one thing that I haven't checked:

 

Most of the bullets I have been using do NOT have a crimping groove so to reduce bullet deformation I have been using a moderate crimp.

 

Are bullets creeping forward during recoil causing variations in case tension??  Maybe I need more crimp......Gotta check that next time out.

CW:

 

May be reading too much into crimping causing damage to the bullet to the extent that accuracy is degraded.  Providing your crimp is uniform around the bullet, you ain't going to do a thing to its accuracy by having a little groove pressed into it from a crimp.

 

I think guys have asked but please, let me ask again.

 

What is the purpose of the load to begin with?  

 

GG

[Cherokeewind]

The purpose is to develop a near factory power level economical load for DA practice.  A round nose bullet is preferred for use in moon clips.

 

I would be satisfied with a 200 gr. round nose if I can find a good load.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I have one load with 185 gr. JHPs with lots of Unique that shoots in the neighbor hood of 1" groups at 25 yds. from bags but it's above factory power level so I don't want to use it. 

[Farmer]

Precision Bullets makes a 200 RN with a bit of a shoulder. They don’t cut as good as a SWC but fairly close and are accurate in my guns. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Farmer
Added pic

[gargoil66]

11 hours ago, Cherokeewind said:

The purpose is to develop a near factory power level economical load for DA practice.  A round nose bullet is preferred for use in moon clips.

 

I would be satisfied with a 200 gr. round nose if I can find a good load.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I have one load with 185 gr. JHPs with lots of Unique that shoots in the neighbor hood of 1" groups at 25 yds. from bags but it's above factory power level so I don't want to use it. 

 

CW:

 

'Near factory power level' is kind of nebulous.  Just a suggestion.  If you have a power factor requirement then you must develop a load to meet that power factor.  Sounds like you don't need to meet a power factor so if I were you I would just focus on a accurate load using a 200 gr round nose.   

 

Guys have their favorites.  I don't though.  I will use what ever shoots the best.  That said, I won't run out and buy powder on a whim.  Started out using 231 for 200 grain .45 bullets forty plus years ago and really haven't found anything that is a quantum improvement so stick with it.  Suggestion -- if you have a powder that is proven to you for the 200 grain range of .45 bullets, stick with it.

 

I have a bunch of 200 gr round nose powder coated bullets with no crimping groove.  I do not think they are as accurate as a 200 grain truncated cone.  However, I have never found a round nose to be as accurate as any SWC design.  The TC means no shoulder to get hung up using a moon clip either.  Would look at them if you haven't already.

 

Go to load for me with a 200 gr bullet is 5 gr of 231.  Has always shot exceptionally well for me in revolvers or pistols.  Is not a MPF load though.

 

Am willing to bet that your zero will be really close if you use the same bullet weight and velocities as your factory ammo so you ought to be able to shift from an inexpensive powder coated 200 grain bullet to what ever style jacketed bullet without a lot of zero change at 25 yards.  Won't give any bets past 25 though.

 

I really dislike load development.  Not sure how you do it but I hope that you find your ideal load quickly and without a lot of changing of components.  

 

GG

[pskys2]

12 hours ago, Cherokeewind said:

The purpose is to develop a near factory power level economical load for DA practice.  A round nose bullet is preferred for use in moon clips.

 

I would be satisfied with a 200 gr. round nose if I can find a good load.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I have one load with 185 gr. JHPs with lots of Unique that shoots in the neighbor hood of 1" groups at 25 yds. from bags but it's above factory power level so I don't want to use it. 

Go to ibejheads they have a 185 coated r n that works well for me.  Using some in gap brass for L6 this year.

[Cherokeewind]

Thanks for all the input.

Not loading to a PF but do want a load that has "factory like" recoil impulse.  Got some more test loads made up, waiting for better weather for testing.