627 Problems

[testosterone]

2 hours ago, gargoil66 said:

This revolver will do the same thing after cleaning when dry firing but it takes a lot more trigger pulls. 

 

So, cleaned and unloaded, if you just start pulling the triggger, at some point, the trigger will no longer move?

Edited December 10, 2022 by testosterone

[ysrracer]

As my old daddy would say, have you checked the framus valve?

[Toolguy]

Could be a bad transmogrifier bearing...

[gargoil66]

2 hours ago, testosterone said:

 

So, cleaned and unloaded, if you just start pulling the triggger, at some point, the trigger will no longer move?

TT

 

It has locked up when dry firing but not as often as with live ammo. 

 

Mostly however, it becomes very difficult to get past the first quarter inch or so of trigger pull.  The trigger moves but with a lot of resistance. 

 

It was not reliable when I got it but it did not do what I described.  Light strikes with the strain screw all the way in.  The hammer was way off to one side and the trigger was a beast to deal with.  

 

It will get figured out and fixed.  Stubborn that way.

 

Must be a very unique situation since no one else here has experienced this sort of thing.

 

GG

[testosterone]

1 hour ago, gargoil66 said:

TT

 

It has locked up when dry firing but not as often as with live ammo. 

 

Mostly however, it becomes very difficult to get past the first quarter inch or so of trigger pull.  The trigger moves but with a lot of resistance. 

 

It was not reliable when I got it but it did not do what I described.  Light strikes with the strain screw all the way in.  The hammer was way off to one side and the trigger was a beast to deal with.  

 

It will get figured out and fixed.  Stubborn that way.

 

Must be a very unique situation since no one else here has experienced this sort of thing.

 

GG

 

The only time i ever had a very trigger, 100% of the time, it was after firing the headspace going to zero.  Ie...gun goes bang and the case that just fired goes back fully against blast shied and fireforms into cylinder 'jamming' the gun.  This is only 9mm though in my example.

 

[Farmer]

That’s interesting that it’s more frequent with the heavier main spring. To me that would eliminate the cyl assembly. I sort of was thinking a bent crane but that usually shows up right away or changes with rotation. I haven’t had a S&W apart for quite a while so my recollection of function is a bit fuzzy. Might have to dig out a diagram a study it. 

[gargoil66]

TT:

 

I am going to take a look at it again today.

 

I was almost positive a stronger return spring would solve it but that assumes it is not returning properly.  Surprise!  Got worse faster.  I guess it was returning OK but was putting too much force on at least two parts which was causing them to get out of alignment -- meaning the pull was either super hard or it locked up.

 

When I got this to happen with the side plate off, the only thing appearing not right was the trigger.  It seemed to be a bit off center from the hammer, as if it had buckled slightly.  When I pushed down on the trigger, it functioned again.  Problem with this is that such a thing is more likely to happen with the side plate off.  Put two shims on the trigger but that didn't solve the problem.  Already have the hammer shimmed because it was scraping against the side of the frame slightly.

 

Anyway, if you want, take a look at the schematics and if you have an idea -- tell me please.

 

GG  

[testosterone]

1 hour ago, gargoil66 said:

TT:

 

I am going to take a look at it again today.

 

I was almost positive a stronger return spring would solve it but that assumes it is not returning properly.  Surprise!  Got worse faster.  I guess it was returning OK but was putting too much force on at least two parts which was causing them to get out of alignment -- meaning the pull was either super hard or it locked up.

 

When I got this to happen with the side plate off, the only thing appearing not right was the trigger.  It seemed to be a bit off center from the hammer, as if it had buckled slightly.  When I pushed down on the trigger, it functioned again.  Problem with this is that such a thing is more likely to happen with the side plate off.  Put two shims on the trigger but that didn't solve the problem.  Already have the hammer shimmed because it was scraping against the side of the frame slightly.

 

Anyway, if you want, take a look at the schematics and if you have an idea -- tell me please.

 

GG  

You are desrcibing alot of rubbing parts, id send it out...

[gargoil66]

1 hour ago, testosterone said:

You are desrcibing alot of rubbing parts, id send it out...

 

TT

 

Reached the same conclusion too.  Looked at the revolver but did not want to take it apart again when I lack the knowledge and tools to figure out what is wrong.  Real bummer.  

 

Will send it to TK.  

 

Thanks guys for your assistance with this!

 

GG

[mchapman]

32 minutes ago, gargoil66 said:

Will send it to TK.  

Let us know what Tom or Eli find out is the problem.

[gargoil66]

5 hours ago, mchapman said:

Let us know what Tom or Eli find out is the problem.

Roger.

 

Took it apart again this afternoon.  Removed the main spring and cycled it.  First time it stuck.  I pushed the trigger down and it worked.  Tried it a couple more times and same thing.   The rebound slide and trigger were buckling a little where they met.  Keep both securely down and not a problem.  Obviously the side plate was off and this is prone to happen.  I understand that.

 

Put two shims on the trigger post over the trigger, put the mainspring back in, side plate and did a dry firing session of about two hundred shots.  No problem.  It doesn't always lock up or become hard to pull when dry firing but it has happened.

 

Am going to do some practice tomorrow and will put a hundred rounds through it.  If it goes a hundred rounds without a problem,  may do another hundred.  If it goes two hundred total rounds without a issue I will have solved that problem but it will take a lot more shooting before I have confidence in this revolver.

 

I have no illusions over this but it is based on what I can see and my intuition.  I can train with this revolver as well as the others and if it acts up tomorrow, I will immediately bag it and use another one.  

 

Need to wait for UPS to deliver a few more packages to find a box for it anyway.

 

GG

 

 

[gargoil66]

Guys:

 

Shot it yesterday.  A hundred rounds without a hitch.  Leaving it dirty and will push another hundred or so out of it tomorrow.

 

Not holding my breath though.  It has to go a entire training session tomorrow and then I have to shoot it in freezing rain before I can get back my trust it will work every time. I have found that freezing rain or rain / snow mix is harder on firearms function than any other condition other than well below zero.  May get that nice freezing rain or sleet on Sat at a SC match.  The fun never ends!

 

Am really kind of shocked.  Never thought it would go that long without a hard pull or locking up.  Didn't think the two shims over the trigger would do anything at all other than make it harder to pull the trigger.  

 

Not even cautiously optimistic though.  This thing has a habit of popping up just when I think it is fixed.

 

GG

[Farmer]

So are you thinking that it had too much play and was sort of twisting in there binding it up? I can see that with the spring pushing one way and the trigger the other, then the hammer in there too. I would have thought it should have shown some rub marks but maybe so small it’s hard to see. Glad it’s heading in the right direction. 

[gargoil66]

3 hours ago, Farmer said:

So are you thinking that it had too much play and was sort of twisting in there binding it up? I can see that with the spring pushing one way and the trigger the other, then the hammer in there too. I would have thought it should have shown some rub marks but maybe so small it’s hard to see. Glad it’s heading in the right direction. 

 

Farmer:

 

Well, it did not meet my standards yesterday when I used it again.  Started getting sluggish and a couple of trigger pulls were hard.  Like it didn't quite return all the way but returned enough for me to pull the trigger providing I used some force.  Plus it started giving me light strikes again even though the firing pin is not broken and the strain screw did not back off.  Something is not right so will box it up and send it to TK.  

 

I own a TRR-8, a 627 V Comp, a 627 with a four inch barrel, and this 627.  This one is the only one that has given me such a hard time.  The others function extremely well and I have confidence in them that they will not let me down in competition.  

 

So, off it goes next week.

 

GG

 

 

 

 

[pskys2]

Sometimes one Just gets a lemon made just before or after a holiday.  May be worthwhile to buy another and put that one on the lgs shelf as a plinker.

Or blueprint it for open like one of dean's space guns!

[bukemoto]

My transfer bar was worn and starting causing my trigger to hang up so I removed it. No problems since.

[revoman]

4 hours ago, pskys2 said:

Sometimes one Just gets a lemon made just before or after a holiday.  May be worthwhile to buy another and put that one on the lgs shelf as a plinker.

Or blueprint it for open like one of dean's space guns!

Space gun I like it. 

[gargoil66]

4 hours ago, pskys2 said:

Sometimes one Just gets a lemon made just before or after a holiday.  May be worthwhile to buy another and put that one on the lgs shelf as a plinker.

Or blueprint it for open like one of dean's space guns!

PK:

 

Probably would if I could find one.  I can find Fed 100's a lot easier than finding a 627.  I figure it will cost me a minimum of $500.00 for shipping and TK to go over it with maybe some minor parts or work done.  More likely around $1K once its all said and done.  Can buy a new one for not that much more but would dump another $500 into a new one to get it up to competitive standards.  Providing it is in really good shape out of the box.  Unlikely from my recent experience with Smith and Wesson.

 

Still have not convinced myself to suck it up as of yet.

 

GG

 

[revoman]

When you put the amount of money into a revolver like I did and it has served me well for over 14 years give or take a year. The cost to have it run 100% and still running now without any other work done on it comes out pretty cheap. Spend once and shoot away or piece meal it till it runs. 

[gargoil66]

31 minutes ago, revoman said:

When you put the amount of money into a revolver like I did and it has served me well for over 14 years give or take a year. The cost to have it run 100% and still running now without any other work done on it comes out pretty cheap. Spend once and shoot away or piece meal it till it runs. 

RM:

 

Roger.  

 

Am a firm believer in 'buy once, cry once'.  Kind of gobsmacked that a 627 - 4 I bought used eight months ago has been absolutely stellar.  Put in the trigger that came with my V Comp, a Rev Up Action hammer, and it has performed so well for me that it is my primary revolver for SC. 

 

Well, UPS has yet to deliver something with a box the right size so I guess it will wait until next week. 

 

GG

 

 

[testosterone]

4 hours ago, gargoil66 said:

PK:

 

Probably would if I could find one.  I can find Fed 100's a lot easier than finding a 627.  I figure it will cost me a minimum of $500.00 for shipping and TK to go over it with maybe some minor parts or work done.  More likely around $1K once its all said and done.  Can buy a new one for not that much more but would dump another $500 into a new one to get it up to competitive standards.  Providing it is in really good shape out of the box.  Unlikely from my recent experience with Smith and Wesson.

 

Still have not convinced myself to suck it up as of yet.

 

GG

 

60 bucks shipping each way + whatever the repair is, and you'll have a working gun.

Getting off cheap.

When I first started shooting in a more significant way a competitive elder told me a gun is a collection of parts, nothing more, they will wear out and break, probably at a bad time, and if you compete the money you spend on ammo will dwarf the cost of guns by a gigantic margin. 

He was right, its not even close.

I get, not everyone's financial situation is the same of course.

Buying a new 627 and sending it out for treatment is 2k, easy.

[pskys2]

53 minutes ago, testosterone said:

60 bucks shipping each way + whatever the repair is, and you'll have a working gun.

Getting off cheap.

When I first started shooting in a more significant way a competitive elder told me a gun is a collection of parts, nothing more, they will wear out and break, probably at a bad time, and if you compete the money you spend on ammo will dwarf the cost of guns by a gigantic margin. 

He was right, its not even close.

I get, not everyone's financial situation is the same of course.

Buying a new 627 and sending it out for treatment is 2k, easy.

Ive always believed that it's best to learn how to repair and upgrade my guns.  Just don't have machining equipment.  Lucky to have a cracker jack machinist as a friend.

But made my living as a mechanic and love, more like obsessed, with tinkering on my own guns.

[Farmer]

On 12/15/2022 at 4:12 PM, gargoil66 said:

 

Farmer:

 

Well, it did not meet my standards yesterday when I used it again.  Started getting sluggish and a couple of trigger pulls were hard.  Like it didn't quite return all the way but returned enough for me to pull the trigger providing I used some force.  Plus it started giving me light strikes again even though the firing pin is not broken and the strain screw did not back off.  Something is not right so will box it up and send it to TK.  

 

I own a TRR-8, a 627 V Comp, a 627 with a four inch barrel, and this 627.  This one is the only one that has given me such a hard time.  The others function extremely well and I have confidence in them that they will not let me down in competition.  

 

So, off it goes next week.

 

GG

 

 

 

 

Well that sucks! Is the hammer shimmed too? Both sides, centered? I know how frustrating these things can get. I have a SRH that I have sent back to the factory twice and it’s come back the with the problems not fixed and a couple of new problems to boot. 

[gargoil66]

20 hours ago, Farmer said:

Well that sucks! Is the hammer shimmed too? Both sides, centered? I know how frustrating these things can get. I have a SRH that I have sent back to the factory twice and it’s come back the with the problems not fixed and a couple of new problems to boot. 

Farmer:

 

Oh yes, I shimmed the hammer.  Was rubbing on one side.  Two shims and it is aligned now.  

 

I am not particularly bothered with sending it to a reputable place like TK.  Factory?  Only if it was so grossly screwed up that I want the factory to spend their money and their man hours fixing something that never should have left their factory. 

 

I am not particularly mechanically inclined but since getting into SC with the revolver, I have become a lot more mechanically inclined.  I can usually figure out how something works but my experience has been that if I mess with one part, it messes with five others.  Unintended consequences sort of thing.

 

Really have no idea what I could do next because obviously I have not found the problem.  So will wait out UPS for a box the right size and off she goes. 

 

GG

[ysrracer]

Stacking of tolerances? Everything is off by a couple of thousandths?

 

.

Edited December 18, 2022 by ysrracer