Buffer selection

[Fasthenk65]

On 10/17/2022 at 1:36 AM, zzt said:

 

I have the Tubbs flat wire spring and it to soooo loud I took it out.

Loud??? I have no difference compared to 308 carbine spring?

[zzt]

16 hours ago, Fasthenk65 said:

Loud??? I have no difference compared to 308 carbine spring?

 

Lucky you.

[Fasthenk65]

7 hours ago, zzt said:

 

Lucky you.

 

[mellino19]

On 10/17/2022 at 1:26 PM, mrvip27 said:

 

yeah def let us know. i want to try one in my AR-V. they wont ship until the 18th.

 

For starters, I tried some Strike Industries flatwire 308 springs in my PCC and they're alright, not too loud, perform about the same as the Sprinco Orange. I shot a great match with them last weekend but I honestly was probably just finally having a good day. Today I swapped the flat wires back out the Sprinco Orange and liked the Sprinco more. It's also easier to pay attention to the feel of something in a controlled environment at the range vs running a stage on the clock.

 

So I got around to trying out the new Taccom DBRS in my 10.5" Brekke and truth be told it's more frustrating that anything for me right now. It doesn't work with JP bolts, you cannot rack the bolt back at all, the retainer doesn't fit inside the bolt. Fortunately it first into my ICRW Mohawk 3.0 so I was able to try it with that once the weight was removed of course. If you have TriggerTech trigger, you're going to have a hell of time getting the DBRS out of the buffer tube, I actually had to pull the trigger pins to let it drop an extra millimeter or 2 for the buffer to clear the hammer and remove it - if you plan on trying this system ABSOLUTELY remove your buffer detent. Even with a small pick pushing the detent down it's a PITA to move from the buffer tube. I'm also using a JP A5 spacer in my A5 tube to make the DBRS fit properly - a must if you plan on trying this in an A5 tube.

 

I first tried the buffer as it was right out of the package from Taccom and it hits hard and has surprising recoil in my build. With my barrel and load setup it hit a lot harder than I expected and dot movement was all over the place. I emailed Taccom and they told me to remove 2 of the spacers and maybe 1 magnet as a starting point. I didn't have a wrench with me to hold the main shaft to loosen the retaining bolt so I had do it at home and wait a week or so to get to the range again.

 

I tried it again today but I'm still not blown away by it. I brought the right tools today and ended up cutting off 10 coils and removing another magnet but I forgot the spacers at home so I couldn't try it with the preload spacers. With 10 coils removed, 2 magnets, and no spacers, the dot movement was better and my shot placement seemed good but the buffer still hits hard - and yes I've seen the argument "you're a grown man shooting a rifle, deal with the recoil impulse". I'm trying to remind myself that I'm coming from a Kynshot 5020SS so the response from the a hydraulic buffer vs a multiple spring buffer is going to be completely different and clearly has significantly different dampening qualities.

 

Essentially I need to carve out more time (and ammo) to continue tuning the system because it's so different from anything else I've ran. Given the dozens of possible setups for the DBRS, there's no real one and done recommendation to start at. You really just need to keep removing things until you get what you're after, it's a lot of a trial and error and patience!

 

 

[DukeSoprano]

3 magnets, 2 spacers and cut 10 coils is the sweet spot for my PCC

[mellino19]

2 hours ago, DukeSoprano said:

3 magnets, 2 spacers and cut 10 coils is the sweet spot for my PCC

 

I'll definitely give that a shot next time I make it to the range with everything

[mrvip27]

23 hours ago, mellino19 said:

 

For starters, I tried some Strike Industries flatwire 308 springs in my PCC and they're alright, not too loud, perform about the same as the Sprinco Orange. I shot a great match with them last weekend but I honestly was probably just finally having a good day. Today I swapped the flat wires back out the Sprinco Orange and liked the Sprinco more. It's also easier to pay attention to the feel of something in a controlled environment at the range vs running a stage on the clock.

 

So I got around to trying out the new Taccom DBRS in my 10.5" Brekke and truth be told it's more frustrating that anything for me right now. It doesn't work with JP bolts, you cannot rack the bolt back at all, the retainer doesn't fit inside the bolt. Fortunately it first into my ICRW Mohawk 3.0 so I was able to try it with that once the weight was removed of course. If you have TriggerTech trigger, you're going to have a hell of time getting the DBRS out of the buffer tube, I actually had to pull the trigger pins to let it drop an extra millimeter or 2 for the buffer to clear the hammer and remove it - if you plan on trying this system ABSOLUTELY remove your buffer detent. Even with a small pick pushing the detent down it's a PITA to move from the buffer tube. I'm also using a JP A5 spacer in my A5 tube to make the DBRS fit properly - a must if you plan on trying this in an A5 tube.

 

I first tried the buffer as it was right out of the package from Taccom and it hits hard and has surprising recoil in my build. With my barrel and load setup it hit a lot harder than I expected and dot movement was all over the place. I emailed Taccom and they told me to remove 2 of the spacers and maybe 1 magnet as a starting point. I didn't have a wrench with me to hold the main shaft to loosen the retaining bolt so I had do it at home and wait a week or so to get to the range again.

 

I tried it again today but I'm still not blown away by it. I brought the right tools today and ended up cutting off 10 coils and removing another magnet but I forgot the spacers at home so I couldn't try it with the preload spacers. With 10 coils removed, 2 magnets, and no spacers, the dot movement was better and my shot placement seemed good but the buffer still hits hard - and yes I've seen the argument "you're a grown man shooting a rifle, deal with the recoil impulse". I'm trying to remind myself that I'm coming from a Kynshot 5020SS so the response from the a hydraulic buffer vs a multiple spring buffer is going to be completely different and clearly has significantly different dampening qualities.

 

Essentially I need to carve out more time (and ammo) to continue tuning the system because it's so different from anything else I've ran. Given the dozens of possible setups for the DBRS, there's no real one and done recommendation to start at. You really just need to keep removing things until you get what you're after, it's a lot of a trial and error and patience!

 

 

 

we have been talking on Instagram but I appreciate the full review.

[Ner]

On 10/31/2022 at 12:44 AM, mellino19 said:

 

For starters, I tried some Strike Industries flatwire 308 springs in my PCC and they're alright, not too loud, perform about the same as the Sprinco Orange. I shot a great match with them last weekend but I honestly was probably just finally having a good day. Today I swapped the flat wires back out the Sprinco Orange and liked the Sprinco more. It's also easier to pay attention to the feel of something in a controlled environment at the range vs running a stage on the clock.

 

So I got around to trying out the new Taccom DBRS in my 10.5" Brekke and truth be told it's more frustrating that anything for me right now. It doesn't work with JP bolts, you cannot rack the bolt back at all, the retainer doesn't fit inside the bolt. Fortunately it first into my ICRW Mohawk 3.0 so I was able to try it with that once the weight was removed of course. If you have TriggerTech trigger, you're going to have a hell of time getting the DBRS out of the buffer tube, I actually had to pull the trigger pins to let it drop an extra millimeter or 2 for the buffer to clear the hammer and remove it - if you plan on trying this system ABSOLUTELY remove your buffer detent. Even with a small pick pushing the detent down it's a PITA to move from the buffer tube. I'm also using a JP A5 spacer in my A5 tube to make the DBRS fit properly - a must if you plan on trying this in an A5 tube.

 

I first tried the buffer as it was right out of the package from Taccom and it hits hard and has surprising recoil in my build. With my barrel and load setup it hit a lot harder than I expected and dot movement was all over the place. I emailed Taccom and they told me to remove 2 of the spacers and maybe 1 magnet as a starting point. I didn't have a wrench with me to hold the main shaft to loosen the retaining bolt so I had do it at home and wait a week or so to get to the range again.

 

I tried it again today but I'm still not blown away by it. I brought the right tools today and ended up cutting off 10 coils and removing another magnet but I forgot the spacers at home so I couldn't try it with the preload spacers. With 10 coils removed, 2 magnets, and no spacers, the dot movement was better and my shot placement seemed good but the buffer still hits hard - and yes I've seen the argument "you're a grown man shooting a rifle, deal with the recoil impulse". I'm trying to remind myself that I'm coming from a Kynshot 5020SS so the response from the a hydraulic buffer vs a multiple spring buffer is going to be completely different and clearly has significantly different dampening qualities.

 

Essentially I need to carve out more time (and ammo) to continue tuning the system because it's so different from anything else I've ran. Given the dozens of possible setups for the DBRS, there's no real one and done recommendation to start at. You really just need to keep removing things until you get what you're after, it's a lot of a trial and error and patience!

 

 

Lol i did the same and came to same conclusion. Lucky you did not waited until got an out_of_battery_explosions on nationals . We have 4 or so exploded ARs but, after all their owners are grown mans so they cried a bit and have moved back to previous setups (one had to buy a new AR tho). New version could be a mirracle and so on but i would like others to test it this time.

[mrvip27]

13 hours ago, Ner said:

Lol i did the same and came to same conclusion. Lucky you did not waited until got an out_of_battery_explosions on nationals . We have 4 or so exploded ARs but, after all their owners are grown mans so they cried a bit and have moved back to previous setups (one had to buy a new AR tho). New version could be a mirracle and so on but i would like others to test it this time.

 

Well to be honest here...if we want to talk about OOB issues, buffer/total system weight is super important in PCC/AR-9s...at least how COLT originally designed it. (around 22oz+)

 

But that ideal, heavier weight of the total system isn't necessarily effective for less dot movement.

[TRUBL]

Interesting thing we've found out on the DBRS.....If you have too much spring and too many magnets.....It's gonna recoil hard. On the other hand......too light of spring and not enough magnets will produce the same effect. One customer did an experiment.....full spring, no magnets (which is basically a spring and buffer at that point) and then added magnets one at a time until he achieved what he felt is the best set up.

[mrvip27]

15 hours ago, TRUBL said:

Interesting thing we've found out on the DBRS.....If you have too much spring and too many magnets.....It's gonna recoil hard. On the other hand......too light of spring and not enough magnets will produce the same effect. One customer did an experiment.....full spring, no magnets (which is basically a spring and buffer at that point) and then added magnets one at a time until he achieved what he felt is the best set up.

 

Interesting.

 

By full spring, you mean no preload rings or with preload rings?

[TRUBL]

10 hours ago, mrvip27 said:

 

Interesting.

 

By full spring, you mean no preload rings or with preload rings?

Full spring......no rings

[mellino19]

4 hours ago, TRUBL said:

Full spring......no rings

 

I probably should've tried this before cutting off 10 coils...

[mrvip27]

1 hour ago, mellino19 said:

 

I probably should've tried this before cutting off 10 coils...

 

Did you always use the preload rings?

[mellino19]

1 hour ago, mrvip27 said:

 

Did you always use the preload rings?

Left them at the house by accident at last tuning adventure. Gotta remember them next time, probably next weekend since I have 2 matches this weekend. 

[TRUBL]

16 hours ago, mellino19 said:

 

I probably should've tried this before cutting off 10 coils...

Good news......cutting the spring by 10 coils and adding the 2 pre-load ring is VERY close to the full spring with no preload rings. 

[zzt]

Well, I tried mine stock in my light Leadstar Prime PCC.  Shot an SCSA match.  Harsh recoil.  Talked to Tim.  He said remove the two preload spacers.  Did that.  Shot a rifle match today with three rounds per target.  Violent and the dot bounced all over.  The third stage had a safe table, so I took the DBRS out and put the original Blitz system back in.  Didn't have the 3 OZ. bolt weight with me, so I used a 308 spring instead of the 556 spring.  Much better, but not as good as when the 3 oz. weight was in.

 

I'll talk to Tim again on Monday.  I'll try what he suggests, but I'm pretty sure this is not going to work with factory ammo.  I'm shooting factory because I want to save my primers for Open major.

[mrvip27]

30 minutes ago, zzt said:

Well, I tried mine stock in my light Leadstar Prime PCC.  Shot an SCSA match.  Harsh recoil.  Talked to Tim.  He said remove the two preload spacers.  Did that.  Shot a rifle match today with three rounds per target.  Violent and the dot bounced all over.  The third stage had a safe table, so I took the DBRS out and put the original Blitz system back in.  Didn't have the 3 OZ. bolt weight with me, so I used a 308 spring instead of the 556 spring.  Much better, but not as good as when the 3 oz. weight was in.

 

I'll talk to Tim again on Monday.  I'll try what he suggests, but I'm pretty sure this is not going to work with factory ammo.  I'm shooting factory because I want to save my primers for Open major.

 

Let us know. Kinda disappointing.

[TRUBL]

On 11/5/2022 at 5:40 PM, zzt said:

Well, I tried mine stock in my light Leadstar Prime PCC.  Shot an SCSA match.  Harsh recoil.  Talked to Tim.  He said remove the two preload spacers.  Did that.  Shot a rifle match today with three rounds per target.  Violent and the dot bounced all over.  The third stage had a safe table, so I took the DBRS out and put the original Blitz system back in.  Didn't have the 3 OZ. bolt weight with me, so I used a 308 spring instead of the 556 spring.  Much better, but not as good as when the 3 oz. weight was in.

 

I'll talk to Tim again on Monday.  I'll try what he suggests, but I'm pretty sure this is not going to work with factory ammo.  I'm shooting factory because I want to save my primers for Open major.

there's got to be something else going on there......call me for sure. I've not heard of anything like that at all

[zzt]

Well, I talked to Tim again today.  He knew who was calling because he read my post above.  Unfortunately,  he had no solution.  Removing magnets will only increase the harshness.  He suggested replacing the flat wire spring with a 556 carbine spring.  That is a little stronger than his flat wire.  I'll try it, but I doubt it will make a difference.  BTW, Tim offered a full refund.  I told him I'd hold off todo more testing.

 

I think the culprit, and Tim agrees, is my 16" barrel.  I must be getting a LOT more velocity that the 1145fps stated on the box.  I'm sure that was with a 4 or 5" barrel.  Tim uses his 5 1/4" barrel in his PCC and that's what he tests with.  I tried a 5 1/2" and didn't like it because it was too whippy.  One of the competitors on my squad on Sat came up and said he was astonished at how far my brass was ejecting.  That's a sure sign of too much buffer speed.

 

My previous buffer setup was a standard Blitz buffer with their 2 oz. short stroke slug and a 556 carbine spring.  I removed the buffer retainer so the buffer is pressing directly against the rear of the bolt.  My bolt has the 3 oz. weight installed.  That setup works amazingly well with 135~144 PF loads.  With the 147 @ 985 fps I use for forward falling steel matches I can put ten rounds into a 2" circle at 25 yards as fast as I can pull the trigger.  My shoulder feels it, but the dot doesn't move.    124s at 135 PF have a little dot bounce, but the dot does not leave the A zone.

 

The only problem I have with the Blitz setup is with sub-minor handloads.  They are filthy dirty, no matter what powder I try.  The buffer moves back immediately and crap gets blown into the receiver.  It also gets blown into the firing pin hole and quickly jams the firing pin.  I bought Tim's magnetic buffer hoping the delayed opening would help clean things up.

 

I'm going to load up some ladders with 124s and several fast powders to see what works with his setup.  I'll remove magnets if I have to, but I 'd rather leave all four in to retard movement as long as possible.  My thinking is when I develop a load that ejects 3' with 4 magnets in, I'll have the cat's meow.  I shoot SCSA 12 months a year, so sub-minor will be perfect.  I'll keep the Blitz setup for the falling stell match.

Edited November 7, 2022 by zzt

[mrvip27]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

Well, I talked to Tim again today.  He knew who was calling because he read my post above.  Unfortunately,  he had no solution.  Removing magnets will only increase the harshness.  He suggested replacing the flat wire spring with a 556 carbine spring.  That is a little stronger than his flat wire.  I'll try it, but I doubt it will make a difference.  BTW, Tim offered a full refund.  I told him I'd hold off todo more testing.

 

I think the culprit, and Tim agrees, is my 16" barrel.  I must be getting a LOT more velocity that the 1145fps stated on the box.  I'm sure that was with a 4 or 5" barrel.  Tim uses his 5 1/4" barrel in his PCC and that's what he tests with.  I tried a 5 1/2" and didn't like it because it was too whippy.  One of the competitors on my squad on Sat came up and said he was astonished at how far my brass was ejecting.  That's a sure sign of too much buffer speed.

 

My previous buffer setup was a standard Blitz buffer with their 2 oz. short stroke slug and a 556 carbine spring.  I removed the buffer retainer so the buffer is pressing directly against the rear of the bolt.  My bolt has the 3 oz. weight installed.  That setup works amazingly well with 135~144 PF loads.  With the 147 @ 985 fps I use for forward falling steel matches I can put ten rounds into a 2" circle at 25 yards as fast as I can pull the trigger.  My shoulder feels it, but the dot doesn't move.    124s at 135 PF have a little dot bounce, but the dot does not leave the A zone.

 

The only problem I have with the Blitz setup is with sub-minor handloads.  They are filthy dirty, no matter what powder I try.  The buffer moves back immediately and crap gets blown into the receiver.  It also gets blown into the firing pin hole and quickly jams the firing pin.  I bought Tim's magnetic buffer hoping the delayed opening would help clean things up.

 

I'm going to load up some ladders with 124s and several fast powders to see what works with his setup.  I'll remove magnets if I have to, but I 'd rather leave all four in to retard movement as long as possible.  My thinking is when I develop a load that ejects 3' with 4 magnets in, I'll have the cat's meow.  I shoot SCSA 12 months a year, so sub-minor will be perfect.  I'll keep the Blitz setup for the falling stell match.

 

My barrel on my pcc with factory ammo adds almost +70 FPS...makes it almost shoot major PF lol.

[zzt]

1 hour ago, mrvip27 said:

 

My barrel on my pcc with factory ammo adds almost +70 FPS...makes it almost shoot major PF lol.

 

It must be more than that on my PCC.  115 @ 1145 is 13` PF.  115 @ 139 PF.  I don't think that is enough of a difference to account for what I'm seeing.

[mrvip27]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

 

It must be more than that on my PCC.  115 @ 1145 is 13` PF.  115 @ 139 PF.  I don't think that is enough of a difference to account for what I'm seeing.

 

have you chrono'd? that doesn't lie.

[drdre352]

Kynshot 5020SS with JP small frame/rifle works well for me.  130-135PF.