Buffer selection

[Reallsutiger]

Right now I have a blitzkrieg buffer in my pcc. I notice that unless i grip the gun very very tight I get significant dot bounce on the closing of the bolt.   Thoughts as to what I could try. Tia

[bigdawgbeav]

I'm currently using the Taccom Air buffer system and it's great.  While I have no personal experience, I hear really good things about the Scheel Roller

[TRUBL]

308 spring? lies from the pit of hell (LOL)......so they use the 308 spring so the bolt/buffer doesn't slam into the bottom of the buffer tube......the problem however, is that you now have a ton of energy built up that sends that bolt/buffer forward....slamming into the bolt face. with some buffers......you can actually feel that the gun is 'klunky', especially with heavier weight bullets. The blitzkrieg buffer tends to work best with a flat wire spring that you can 'tune' (clip coils). Some will say you need to use a smally spring......overall a bad idea as most are using them wrong with no limit on the travel of that spring, they compress them flat and they end up breaking into itty bitty pieces making for a bad hair day. Some are gonna say, I've never broke a smally spring.....you will. What I should do is design an air buffer that can be used with the blitzkrieg and an A5 buffer tube.  I've always told people that teh 3 top buffer systems are the hydraulic, taccom or mbx.......which one is best? subjective at best......don't believe these people that give you a 'brand x in for the win......brand y and z suck'.....mostly just fan boi's.

I did pick up a scheel.....great concept!!......I have some reservations on its longevity.....others can speak to that. If it's good for 10K-12K, I'd consider it a good disposable system that may work for you!! Now saying something is disposable is not a bad thing, hell, the original AR officially has a service life of 12K rounds.....keep that in perspective.....not dissing that system at all (IMHO). I got one for an R&D project we are working on.

[Boomstick303]

13 hours ago, Reallsutiger said:

Right now I have a blitzkrieg buffer in my pcc. I notice that unless i grip the gun very very tight I get significant dot bounce on the closing of the bolt.   Thoughts as to what I could try.

 

I find this to be the case with any PCC that is using a normal PCC bolt and buffer assembly and the weight of that system.  Regardless of the buffer used.  The Scheel Roller buffer allows for you to lighten up the bolt, thus with the lighter Scheel buffer creating a situation where less mass is reciprocating.  Although I have not weighed the new JP-5 bolt and buffer, and compared them to the GMR set up you can see there would be a considerable weight difference where less mass is reciprocating in that system.   Thus this results in lighter impulse and less dot movement.   I have noted I can get away with my grip not necessarily being on point to score decent hits with the JP5, where my grip needed to be more on point with any system in the GMR.  I did not have the chance to play with bolt selection using the Scheel Roller buffer as I had a JP5 on order but I did fire a Davinci with a lighter bolt and it did not seem like I had to grip it as tight to get better groups.  

 

In short, the heavier the bolt buffer assembly the better your grip needs to be to obtain tighter groups.  The lighter the assembly the grip can be less to achieve the same result, i.e. is more forgiving when you are running and gunning.

 

Please keep in mind these are observations I noted in passing.  I have not put any of this on the clock or done any definitive testing to flush these theories out.  Maybe others can interject if they have a more definitive analysis through testing of their own.  

[Reallsutiger]

You make tons of sense as my bolt is heaaaaaaavy

[zzt]

4 hours ago, TRUBL said:

The blitzkrieg buffer tends to work best with a flat wire spring that you can 'tune' (clip coils).

 

I heard that too.  I have a mil spec tube so I went with a Tubbs.  It is SOOO loud you cannot hear anything else.  I switched back.  If you made one for a mil spec tube I'd try it.

[Racinready300ex]

I'm with @Boomstick303 the key is in the weight. 9mm isn't exactly a high recoil round, but that massive weight slamming back and forth makes for a lot of dot movement. I've played with several setups, I like the Scheel. The lighter spring means the bolt is slamming home a little less aggressively. Plus the reduction in weight already mentioned. I still want to play with reducing the weight of my bolt further, I just haven't had time yet and the gun is working well as it is now. 

 

I'm also not short stroking my gun at all now. Well, just enough to make sure I don't have any coil bind in the buffer tube. But that's it. 

[TRUBL]

18 hours ago, zzt said:

 

I heard that too.  I have a mil spec tube so I went with a Tubbs.  It is SOOO loud you cannot hear anything else.  I switched back.  If you made one for a mil spec tube I'd try it.

polish the OD......coat with red grease

[cferree]

I tested buffers and different barrel lengths a while back.  I'd shot a GMR-15 that was short stroked with the JP SCS buffer.  Once tuned, the JP was great with 115's (this was with their ultralight shrouded barrel).  I then bought a PSA with a 16" upper and a 10.5" upper.  The 16" barrel had a Da Vinci comp and the 10.5" had a Brekke.  I tested both uppers with a Scheel buffer and a Blitzkreig HD w/308 spring.  I used 115's and 147's that were 132-133 out of the 10.5" upper and 138 out of the 16".

After 5-6 sessions and 1000-1200 rounds, the Blitzkreig was softer, especially with 147's and the 16" upper.  The recoil was sharper with the 10.5" and 115's, but the dot recovered faster.  This combination and the Scheel gave me the best dot movement.  Other folks would get different results depending on their "grip and stance".  As others have said, the Scheel is more tunable but has a different feel than the Blitz.

 

Recoil and dot movement is subjective.  What worked for might not work for you.  The bad part is investing in all the parts to try multiple combinations.

[Fasthenk65]

4 hours ago, TRUBL said:

polish the OD......coat with red grease

OD??

[Bdh821]

2 hours ago, Fasthenk65 said:

OD??

Outside diameter

[Bdh821]

On 9/23/2022 at 9:41 AM, Boomstick303 said:

 

The Scheel Roller buffer allows for you to lighten up the bolt, thus with the lighter Scheel buffer creating a situation where less mass is reciprocating. 

I’ve shot with Corey and shot his PCC and DaVinci PCC’s. My observations I think are helpful but also isn’t comparing apples to apples….

 

That being said, with my ammo (140pf 115s) any blowback PCC kicks a lot compared to my MPX. I’ve shot brekke custom guns too with tailored ammo for the guns. They felt really good!  BUT, I’ve still yet to shoot a PCC that is as good as the MPX. My friend just got a JP5 and his when I asked his thoughts he said “it wasn’t a game changer” compared to his AR PCC…. More to come for sure…. Back to my original point, the MPX BCG is small/light. Less reciprocating mass means less violent recoil when tuned properly.  That being said, for a few hundred bucks it’s easier to get a Scheel roller delay buffer system than a JP5 $3600 price tag. Maybe I’ll change my mind once it shoot a JP5? 

[Fasthenk65]

3 hours ago, Bdh821 said:

Outside diameter

Thank you!

[mrvip27]

5 hours ago, Bdh821 said:

I’ve shot with Corey and shot his PCC and DaVinci PCC’s. My observations I think are helpful but also isn’t comparing apples to apples….

 

That being said, with my ammo (140pf 115s) any blowback PCC kicks a lot compared to my MPX. I’ve shot brekke custom guns too with tailored ammo for the guns. They felt really good!  BUT, I’ve still yet to shoot a PCC that is as good as the MPX. My friend just got a JP5 and his when I asked his thoughts he said “it wasn’t a game changer” compared to his AR PCC…. More to come for sure…. Back to my original point, the MPX BCG is small/light. Less reciprocating mass means less violent recoil when tuned properly.  That being said, for a few hundred bucks it’s easier to get a Scheel roller delay buffer system than a JP5 $3600 price tag. Maybe I’ll change my mind once it shoot a JP5? 

 

interesting he said that...i own a mp5 clone and it shoots awesome. Can't imagine the jp-5 being anything different or less feeling.

[IYAOYAS]

So can the old design be upgraded to the new? 
thanks again 

[mrvip27]

looks like taccom just released the updated dbrs

[Racinready300ex]

14 hours ago, mrvip27 said:

looks like taccom just released the updated dbrs

 

I saw that, it looks like he moved to Brass from Delrin which should add some reciprocating weight. I feel like that is potentially a move in the wrong direction. I'm thinking like @Bdh821 the benefit to his MPX is the light BCG, same with the JP5 from the sounds of it. I think to really unlock the scheel buffers capabilities will take reducing weight of the bolt and finding the right spring combo. 

 

That said, I don't know what the weight of his dbrs system was or what the new one is. I did play with the old one. It shot good, better than his standard buffer (also pretty good) but I thought it was more violent feeling. I ended up getting better results with less violence from the scheel buffer. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Racinready300ex

[Racinready300ex]

1 hour ago, mrvip27 said:

 

You do have to account for the weight removal in the bolt. So it probably cancels each other out.

 

Id be down to try one.

 

Well you removed the weight with the old system too. But, a Taccom bolt is lighter than say a JP bolt. So overall setup plays a role too. It's a system. 

 

I may also need to try one. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Racinready300ex

[Racinready300ex]

Another thought as your trying to delay the bolt movement is the trigger. For example when tuning the Scheel buffer I started used both a hiperfire PDI and one of the 24C. The 24C has the two helper springs the PDI. There was a vary noticeable difference in how the gun unlocked just from how hard it is to reset the trigger. So it's vary likely you'll see different results based on the trigger you use. With the sheel that might just mean adding another spring if you're running a different trigger. 

[mrvip27]

21 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

Another thought as your trying to delay the bolt movement is the trigger. For example when tuning the Scheel buffer I started used both a hiperfire PDI and one of the 24C. The 24C has the two helper springs the PDI. There was a vary noticeable difference in how the gun unlocked just from how hard it is to reset the trigger. So it's vary likely you'll see different results based on the trigger you use. With the sheel that might just mean adding another spring if you're running a different trigger. 

 

Yeah like you said. All part of a system.

[mellino19]

On 10/12/2022 at 11:26 PM, mrvip27 said:

looks like taccom just released the updated dbrs

 

I can't leave anything alone and always wanna try something different so I got one of the way to try out with my 10.5" brekke and 130pf 115gr load.

 

I'll be the guinea pig and see how it goes!

 

Curious about those those Tubbs flat wires with the kynshot (blitzkrieg) as well - currently running the 5020SS in an A5 tube.

[Fasthenk65]

41 minutes ago, mellino19 said:

 

I can't leave anything alone and always wanna try something different so I got one of the way to try out with my 10.5" brekke and 130pf 115gr load.

 

I'll be the guinea pig and see how it goes!

 

Curious about those those Tubbs flat wires with the kynshot (blitzkrieg) as well - currently running the 5020SS in an A5 tube.

Here in Europe many use the Tubes flatwire spring with kynshot 5007 or 5015. I like it better then the 308 carbine spring with 130 PF (5007) and factory ammo (5015) at 150

[zzt]

3 hours ago, Fasthenk65 said:

Tubes flatwire spring

 

I have the Tubbs flat wire spring and it to soooo loud I took it out.

[mellino19]

27 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

I have the Tubbs flat wire spring and it to soooo loud I took it out.

Looks like Strike Industries makes some too, not sure how they compare but ordered one to try out of the hell of it.

[mrvip27]

21 hours ago, mellino19 said:

 

I can't leave anything alone and always wanna try something different so I got one of the way to try out with my 10.5" brekke and 130pf 115gr load.

 

I'll be the guinea pig and see how it goes!

 

Curious about those those Tubbs flat wires with the kynshot (blitzkrieg) as well - currently running the 5020SS in an A5 tube.

 

yeah def let us know. i want to try one in my AR-V. they wont ship until the 18th.