Rule ?

[usmc1974]

Does IDPA still have the everybody gets 1, for anybody gets 2 rule? I forget what it's called. Thanks 

[GOF]

That was the 'sequence shooting' rule. I'm not certain that is still in effect. The best thing to do it listen to the stage briefing and ask any questions you may have. 

[rowdyb]

Tactical sequence is gone.

[usmc1974]

Well s#!t, I Wanted to use it in a stage design. So I can say shoot to targets in a specific order Like123456 while moving Backward. I want to say shoot targets 1 2 and 3 While moving backward Because after you shoot target 1 2 and 3 They would be in a different position if they was a actual person like falling down And have the 4 5 and 6 represent 1 2 and 3 as they was following down If I said that right. It seems like all the things that made these shooting sports fun, has been removed or outlawed By Rule changes

Edited August 11, 2022 by usmc1974

[Joe4d]

Tactical sequence should have never existed to begin with, Or at least should have never had that name. Was a source of confusion from day 1. 
But to the op , telling people what to do seems like dull stage design. you could accomplish same thing with a vision barrier running perpindicular to berm and a barrel up range and left of barrier. Start down range with 1-2-3 visible, but 456  in your simulated move to position only visible from behind barrel. 

 

 

at start engage 123 while moving to cover (the barrel up range behind them), then engage 456

[GigG]

Not a IDPA shooter but thinking about it. How does what you guys are describing differ from...

 

3.2.1 Tactical Priority is a method of target engagement in which targets are engaged by their order of threat. Threat is based on the distance of the visible threats from the shooter.

1. 3.2.1.1  All targets must be engaged in tactical priority, including all targets engaged “in the open.”

2. 3.2.1.2  Targets are considered equal threat when the difference in the target distances to the shooter is less than 2

   yards.

3. 3.2.1.3  If several targets are visible at the same time, targets are engaged from near-to-far unless they are equal

   threat.

[rowdyb]

Priority is different than sequence. Priority is slice the pie around an edge, each target getting its required two shot all at the same time.

Sequence is giving everyone a single shot, in priority, and then go back and give them their second shot in priority. It was used as a way to mind F people.*

 

A stage with a a design intent to force shooters to do something is not good stage design imho. 

 

Also review the rules about what you can and can't currently require shooters to do. Hint be creative an coerce them, not force them.

 

*the tacti reason for it was you were in a situation where you were better off shooting 1 shot on every single assailant because of you took the extra 0.4 of a second for a second shot the next dude would get you. Sarcasm on my part but that's what they used to say. They also used to say you'd never do a moving reload either...

 

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by rowdyb

[GigG]

Thanks Rowdy.  The more I explore IDPA, the less I want to do it.

[usmc1974]

2 hours ago, GigG said:

Thanks Rowdy.  The more I explore IDPA, the less I want to do it.

Today's IDPA,  is nothing!!  like the 1996 IDPA when I started(AO1668). Today it is what I have heard by many many other people, it is low round count IPSC. But, Still it is a fun game.

[rowdyb]

I prefer some aspects of 10 years ago idpa as well.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

18 hours ago, rowdyb said:

I prefer some aspects of 10 years ago idpa as well.

 

I started shooting IDPA in 2006.  I'd rather not go back to that s#!t.

 

The next thing IDPA needs to do is get rid of the scripted stages and just say: engage targets according to IDPA rules.  Let shooters figure out how to do it within the constraints of tactical priority, not exposing onself to unengaged targets, and reloading per the rulebook.

 

The old timers would blow a gasket over that, but that will be part of the fun.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[usmc1974]

2 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

e next thing IDPA needs to do is get rid of the scripted stages and just say: engage targets according to IDPA rules.  Let shooters figure out how to do it within the constraints of tactical priority, not exposing onself to unengaged targets, and reloading per the rulebook.

Like I stated earlier, low round count IPSC.. Full of gamers and complainers.

[iboomer]

2 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

The next thing IDPA needs to do is get rid of the scripted stages and just say: engage targets according to IDPA rules.  Let shooters figure out how to do it within the constraints of tactical priority, not exposing onself to unengaged targets, and reloading per the rulebook.

They have done that. The problem is some match directors cannot wrap their brains around that.

 

M-9.1.3  Procedure: A brief description of the shooting actions the shooter is supposed to do within the stage for each string of fire. It must include the number of rounds to be fired and any special conditions for example: “strong hand only,” “remain seated while shooting”, or “while prone”.

 

3.1 Shooting Actions are attributes of shooting. Examples of shooting actions are requiring one handed shooting, or
shooting from a specified shooting position, such as standing freestyle, retention, crouching, kneeling, sitting, or prone,
etc. Match Directors may indicate to shooter in the procedure the determinate factors that define sitting, kneeling, or
prone, etc.

 

M-9.2 A written stage briefing may not supersede the shooting rules in Section 3 with regard to issuing procedural penalties to competitors. While a procedure may suggest a way to complete a string, the instructions are limited to following rulebook Sections 3 & 5 in their guidance with regard to penalizing shooters. After the start signal, penalties for non-shooting actions may not be issued to competitors for their performance on a stage.
 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

6 hours ago, usmc1974 said:

Like I stated earlier, low round count IPSC.. Full of gamers and complainers.

 

It used to be a bulls#!t-fest of subjective calls.  You can keep that.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

5 hours ago, iboomer said:

They have done that. The problem is some match directors cannot wrap their brains around that.

 

M-9.1.3  Procedure: A brief description of the shooting actions the shooter is supposed to do within the stage for each string of fire. It must include the number of rounds to be fired and any special conditions for example: “strong hand only,” “remain seated while shooting”, or “while prone”.

 

3.1 Shooting Actions are attributes of shooting. Examples of shooting actions are requiring one handed shooting, or
shooting from a specified shooting position, such as standing freestyle, retention, crouching, kneeling, sitting, or prone,
etc. Match Directors may indicate to shooter in the procedure the determinate factors that define sitting, kneeling, or
prone, etc.

 

M-9.2 A written stage briefing may not supersede the shooting rules in Section 3 with regard to issuing procedural penalties to competitors. While a procedure may suggest a way to complete a string, the instructions are limited to following rulebook Sections 3 & 5 in their guidance with regard to penalizing shooters. After the start signal, penalties for non-shooting actions may not be issued to competitors for their performance on a stage.
 

 

I'm talking about going farther than that.  No more "go to P1 and engage T1 through T4....".  Just solve the problem any way you want, so long as cover, reloading, and exposure rules are not violated.  Procedural penalties for those violations.

[rowdyb]

Scenario: You are at an idpa match, testing your shooting abilities and gear choices. Not your tactics. Shoot all the appropriate targets following the latest rule book.

 

Please don't write me a novel about home invasion, gangs, drug dealers interrupting me on the toilet, being assaulted mid gun cleaning...

[usmc1974]

58 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

Scenario: You are at an idpa match, testing your shooting abilities and gear choices. Not your tactics. Shoot all the appropriate targets following the latest rule book.

 

Please don't write me a novel about home invasion, gangs, drug dealers interrupting me on the toilet, being assaulted mid gun cleaning...

Then why do you even Both are going? What part of "defensive pistol" do you not understand? Maybe  you should go fishing, Instead. Just an honest thought.

Edited August 14, 2022 by usmc1974

[Joe4d]

Because its tedious to listen to Tactical Timmy Rambo wannabees and their fantasies ,, And for some reason they always turn out to be Navy cooks...   Guess Under siege must be their dream movie...

11 minutes ago, usmc1974 said:

Then why do you even Both are going? What part of "defensive pistol" do you not understand? Maybe  you should go fishing, Instead. Just an honest thought.

 

[bdpaz]

1 hour ago, rowdyb said:

Scenario: You are at an idpa match, testing your shooting abilities and gear choices. Not your tactics. Shoot all the appropriate targets following the latest rule book.

 

Please don't write me a novel about home invasion, gangs, drug dealers interrupting me on the toilet, being assaulted mid gun cleaning...

Well, as the IDPA rules require a story if it’s not a Standards stage, I don’t see that happening.  
6.1.1.1 Scenario Stages represent a civilian self-defense situation that could actually happen. Scenario Stages must have a written scenario description reflecting this and will use appropriate props and targets with Unlimited Scoring.  
 

It’s pretty much irrelevant anyway as the short story length scenario shouldn’t contain any actual instructions so just don’t read it.

[usmc1974]

56 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

Because its tedious to listen to Tactical Timmy Rambo wannabees and their fantasies ,, And for some reason they always turn out to be Navy cooks...   Guess Under siege must be their dream movie...

 

Because tactics  (the way you handle any situation) from shooting guns, cleaning fish, changing the motor oil or taking a crap(keeping the Pudding off your fingers). How you handle the situation, is important to the outcome of any situation. IDPA is a game therefore it is a fantasy to begin with. Just a thought.

[usmc1974]

57 minutes ago, bdpaz said:

Well, as the IDPA rules require a story if it’s not a Standards stage, I don’t see that happening.  
6.1.1.1 Scenario Stages represent a civilian self-defense situation that could actually happen. Scenario Stages must have a written scenario description 

"self-defense situation" very good point.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

31 minutes ago, usmc1974 said:

"self-defense situation" very good point.

 

Are there still some people out there clinging to the fantasy that IDPA includes solid tactics?

 

LOL

[usmc1974]

15 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

Are there still some people out there clinging to the fantasy that IDPA includes solid tactics?

 

LOL

Solid as compared to what?

[Barcode1337]

I must say, though, conceptually I love the idea of the story-based scenarios. It essentially lets you role-play being an action hero. For a small group of friends I ran a Shadowrun mission match a number of years ago. Had significant amounts of storytelling between the stages to set up the "action". It was quite a bit of fun.

 

Maybe that's what we're all forgetting: IDPA is for LARPers. (and that's not an insult!)

[ddc]

6 hours ago, Barcode1337 said:

 Had significant amounts of storytelling between the stages to set up the "action".

 

 

If I accidentally attended a match like that I would be very annoyed with myself.