PCC handling ?

[driver8M3]

7 hours ago, IVC said:

Hmm, I looked it up and it clearly says, in bold, that it can be either muzzle up or muzzle down. Still, I believe I recall rules saying that the RM could choose one direction and declare it the only valid direction. Was this an old rule that got updated? Maybe I'm just seeing things...  

5.2.1.5 - Un-cased pistol caliber carbines must be carried reasonably vertical, whether slung or held in the hands, with a chamber flag in place. Match Directors may require this to be "vertically upwards" or "vertically downwards" providing this is made clear to all competitors in a reasonable manner.

[IVC]

^^^ Thanks. I thought so... 

[Southpaw]

6 hours ago, bcane98 said:

Chamber flag is in, extend the stock, turn the optic on, and safely move to the "hole" position to await my turn.... "common sense" movements is basically how we do it. 

 

Unfortunately that's a DQ per the rulebook. Common sense need not apply

[Southpaw]

6 hours ago, bcane98 said:

Chamber flag is in, extend the stock, turn the optic on, and safely move to the "hole" position to await my turn.... "common sense" movements is basically how we do it. 

 

Unfortunately that's a DQ per the rulebook. Common sense need not apply

[bcane98]

17 hours ago, Southpaw said:

 

Unfortunately that's a DQ per the rulebook. Common sense need not apply

 

"10.5.19 ... All other gun handling with the PCC, e.g., sight pictures, turning dots on/off, etc., must be accomplished in a safety area or  under the direct supervision of a Range Officer."  

 

I'm not DQing someone for turning their dot on especially when I'm the RO ...  there is a big difference between pushing a button and manipulating the device. I've never seen anyone try to get a sight picture anywhere but the CoF or a safe area and many will admit that is because of common sense.    Most of us turn the dot on before the match and leave it on for the entirety anyway.  Common sense applies more often than you think, some shooters should probably apply it a little more, but unfortunately some shooters need rules to keep their center ...  

[Sarge]

8 minutes ago, bcane98 said:

 

"10.5.19 ... All other gun handling with the PCC, e.g., sight pictures, turning dots on/off, etc., must be accomplished in a safety area or  under the direct supervision of a Range Officer."  

 

I'm not DQing someone for turning their dot on especially when I'm the RO ...  there is a big difference between pushing a button and manipulating the device. 

Well you can’t DQ someone unless you are the RO LOL.

But seriously you should follow the rules as written even if you think they are bogus. 
 How about this? A very accomplished PCC shooter came to the line last weekend. While standing at the start location with rifle pointed straight up he pulled the flag before “make ready”. I as that really dangerous? No, but he still got DQ’ed.

[bcane98]

3 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Well you can’t DQ someone unless you are the RO LOL.

But seriously you should follow the rules as written even if you think they are bogus. 
 How about this? A very accomplished PCC shooter came to the line last weekend. While standing at the start location with rifle pointed straight up he pulled the flag before “make ready”. I as that really dangerous? No, but he still got DQ’ed.

I RO a lot, way more than I'd like sometimes, but I do follow the rules.  If the shooter is under my direct supervision and safely turns their dot on, then there is no reason to DQ them.  Right?   There are plenty of scenarios we can "what if" to death... what if a shooters shoe comes untied during a CoF, that is a definite safety issue that could cause a tripping hazard, should we DQ them?  C'mon guys, let's get real, we RO because the MD and CRO trust our decisions, our abilities, and know we will provide a safe and fun environment.  Put the microscopes away   

[Sarge]

5 hours ago, bcane98 said:

I RO a lot, way more than I'd like sometimes, but I do follow the rules.  If the shooter is under my direct supervision and safely turns their dot on, then there is no reason to DQ them.  Right?   There are plenty of scenarios we can "what if" to death... what if a shooters shoe comes untied during a CoF, that is a definite safety issue that could cause a tripping hazard, should we DQ them?  C'mon guys, let's get real, we RO because the MD and CRO trust our decisions, our abilities, and know we will provide a safe and fun environment.  Put the microscopes away   

I guess I don’t understand. Turning a dot on at a side berm is a DQ. Under supervision of an RO does not mean you see him do it so it’s OK. Under supervision means under RO control. Even at the start location he must wait for make ready to turn on dot/ remove flag etc

[Kraj]

Like everyone else said level one I would warn them, above that its on you to know the rules.

 

If your choosing to shoot the only division with special handling rules you should know what they are.

 

 

[SGT_Schultz]

On 10/30/2020 at 7:55 AM, bcane98 said:

Chamber flag is in, extend the stock, turn the optic on, and safely move to the "hole" position to await my turn....

 

I'd DQ you right then and there if you did that in my squad.

[bcane98]

3 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

I'd DQ you right then and there if you did that in my squad.

Cause you're obviously one of the over zealous RO's... a microscope give you the "control" that makes you fell good about yourself apparently  

[teros135]

2 minutes ago, bcane98 said:

Cause you're obviously one of the over zealous RO's... a microscope give you the "control" that makes you fell good about yourself apparently  

 

No ... more likely because he's a competent RO who takes the responsibility seriously and understands the rulebook.  Like all us competitors are supposed to, 'y know?

[bcane98]

Just now, teros135 said:

 

No ... more likely because he's a competent RO who takes the responsibility seriously and understands the rulebook.  Like all us competitors are supposed to, 'y know?

 

Y'all need to read to understand instead of read to respond... I take all shooting aspect serious, but many of you make the rumors true about the RO's who like the power of "control" ... maybe some of you need to actually look at the definition of supervise.  

[assaultthesalt]

It's real easy.....uncase pointing into berm...carry muzzle up/down.....wait for MR command.....extend stock , adjust dot( get sight pic ) , remove flag...load round......wait for BEEP !!! Go Fast Don't Suck  

[teros135]

1 hour ago, bcane98 said:

 

Y'all need to read to understand instead of read to respond... I take all shooting aspect serious, but many of you make the rumors true about the RO's who like the power of "control" ... maybe some of you need to actually look at the definition of supervise.  

 

There's never been anything wrong with a sport having rules.  Without structure, we're just a bunch of people running around, doing whatever we want.  And there's never been anything wrong with applying the established rules, equitably and equally.  Safety, fairness, efficiency.  

[teros135]

1 hour ago, assaultthesalt said:

It's real easy.....uncase pointing into berm...carry muzzle up/down.....wait for MR command.....extend stock , adjust dot( get sight pic ) , remove flag...load round......wait for BEEP !!! Go Fast Don't Suck  

 

This !

[pjb45]

So if I am at the table next to the side berm where all the PCCs are bagged, the RO motions me to come to the starting area/position I am now under the RO’S supervision. 
I may be 30 feet away but obeying his direction. 
 

No DQ for extending my stock, pulling my bolt back etc?

[pjb45]

Xander Cage said , “Don’t be a Dick”

 

 

 

 

[SGT_Schultz]

7 hours ago, bcane98 said:

Cause you're obviously one of the over zealous RO's... a microscope give you the "control" that makes you fell good about yourself apparently  

I really don't care what you think about my performance or motivations as an RO.

 

I make ZERO exceptions for safety.  None.  Violate any USPSA safety rule in my presence when I'm officiating and your shooting day is done.

Do it where I can see it when I'm not the RO in charge of the squad and I will let him or her know exactly what I saw.

 

 

[SGT_Schultz]

2 hours ago, pjb45 said:

So if I am at the table next to the side berm where all the PCCs are bagged, the RO motions me to come to the starting area/position I am now under the RO’S supervision. 
I may be 30 feet away but obeying his direction. 
 

No DQ for extending my stock, pulling my bolt back etc?

 

If you do anything other than take the gun out of the bag and bring it to the starting position before I tell you to make ready I will disqualify you.

 

You can play range lawyer with the RM.

[SGT_Schultz]

7 hours ago, bcane98 said:

 

Y'all need to read to understand instead of read to respond... I take all shooting aspect serious, but many of you make the rumors true about the RO's who like the power of "control" ... maybe some of you need to actually look at the definition of supervise.  

 

Maybe you should actually read what the Range Officers duties actually are instead of ad-libing what you think they are or should be

 

7.1.1 Range Officer (“RO”) – issues range commands, oversees competitor compliance with the written stage briefing and closely monitors safe competitor action. He also declares the time, scores, and penalties achieved by each competitor and verifies that these are correctly recorded on the competitor’s score sheet (under the authority of a Chief Range Officer and
Range Master).

[Sarge]

8 hours ago, teros135 said:

 

No ... more likely because he's a competent RO who takes the responsibility seriously and understands the rulebook.  Like all us competitors are supposed to, 'y know?

Exactly. It is a weak cop out to call an RO that follows the rules overzealous.

[Sarge]

3 hours ago, pjb45 said:

So if I am at the table next to the side berm where all the PCCs are bagged, the RO motions me to come to the starting area/position I am now under the RO’S supervision. 
I may be 30 feet away but obeying his direction. 
 

No DQ for extending my stock, pulling my bolt back etc?

I don’t motion anybody to the line. It’s your job to be where you need to be and when.

[SGT_Schultz]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

I don’t motion anybody to the line. It’s your job to be where you need to be and when.

 

+1

[pjb45]

In 3g with staged guns you do not remove the staged gun(s) prior to RO direction.
Most PCC users in my limited experience stay at the staging table until the RO directs them. In general because the RO is waiting for the stage reset to be complete. 
 

7.1.1 quote....”closely monitors”..... pretty much proves my point.