Weigh in on red dots - late 2020 edition

[Desk-Jockey]

So after a long layoff from shooting sports, I have jumped back in.   I have been shooting matches for the last six months in Production using lightly modified gen 3 glocks that were my IDPA guns years ago.   I am making my way to slowly to open division and my next stop is carry optics.  I bought a Glock 17 MOS and mounted up a vortex dot I had to start training with and I am adding C-Mores to two 22s I will be using for steel matches.   I am in PA where most clubs shut down about this time.  So my winter plan was to practice with a dot guns until after the first of the year when matches start to resume.   I plan to shoot carry optics next year and then move to an open gun.

I have dots (aim point and eotech) on my ARs but next to no experience with pistol red dots.  

 

I have been researching various optics to use in a dedicated carry optics build (likely a legion or CZ shadow) and my head is spinning.   I had narrowed things down to the SRO and Romeo XL but have been scared by the stories I read here and elsewhere about reliability issues and in the case of the SRO, glass breakage.   The guys I shoot with are a bit old school and are diehard C-More fans.   Someone at a match this weekend was raving about new Bushnell sights.   
 

so what are your thoughts?   If you were starting from scratch and planning to jump into carry optics, what sight would you buy?  Same question for an Open Gun (my 2021 project).   

[Racinready300ex]

All red dots break, but the SRO might be the most durable of the competition style dots on the market. 

 

But....Trijicons turn around on repair sucks. They've had one of my SRO's since Mid August. Should get it back later this month. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Racinready300ex

[zzt]

Both my Open guns wear SRO 5 MOA.  Before that they wore DPPs 2.5.  Before that they wore C-More RTS v4s, 6 MOA. 

 

I also have five Burris FF3 8 MOAs mounted on various pistols.  The run like champs.  Not one of them has ever had a dot go out on me.  One has been slide mounted on a 1911 45 and saw 40,000 rounds before a little piece of plastic broke.  The sight still worked.  I also have an RTSv4 6 MOA slide mounted on another 1911 45.  Runs fine.

 

The FF# 8 with new battery is bright enough for steel in bright sunlight.  So are the SRO and the DPP 2.5, but the SRO is brighter and easier to pick up.  Not so with the RTS2.

 

So go to a store and look through several.  Some have bigger glass, some are brighter, some are clearer.

[Effectus Magis Per Minor]

I think I am in the minority, but I prefer the Shield RMS, or SMS2, with the scratch resistant polymer lens, not the glass lens.
The dot is always on and self regulates brightness well, the housing around the lens is thin and not obtrusive, the polymer lens does not have any strange colors and there have never been any ‘ghost’ dots or double dots when shooting into the sun, the battery life has been good  (I replace them annually anyway), and I have not broken one in the past 17k rounds on my G34. The Shield also mounts low on the slide and with their Glock plate it mounts low enough that tall iron sights are not needed, if someone wanted to keep back up irons.
I have had Shield repair an early one that I scratched the lens on when cleaning it, and I ‘upgraded’ to a glass lens. The glass lens is coated (like an RMR), and I did not keep it, and replaced it with a polymer lens SMS2, which I carry for a spare. The customer service was excellent and affordable and mailing back and forth to the U.K. was a non-issue.

[toothandnail]

I have been using the Shield as well for several years, before that the JPoint (made by Shield) I have never had one fail, slide ride, shotgun, and AR15 - 45*

[Malarky112]

17 minutes ago, toothandnail said:

I have been using the Shield as well for several years, before that the JPoint (made by Shield) I have never had one fail, slide ride, shotgun, and AR15 - 45*

I had to send a Jpoint back for repair earlier this month. 
Wouldnt  hold zero, they fixed it free. 
Estimated 3-4000 rounds on it. 

[Cuz]

I’ve gone to Holosun 507C on my pistols, and the 510C on my PCC. They were less expensive, and I like them, but don’t have enough miles on them yet to attest to their durability.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mrd]

If you look at the reviews by Sage Dynamics on youtube, the Holosuns can stand a lot of abuse. The reviewed sights are put through a 2000 round torture test with one handed slide manipulations using the dot and a shoulder height drop test every 500 rounds. SRO broke on first drop, though... 

 

However, for a pure gaming gun I'd go with a dot with a larger window that can handle recoil well. To be drop safe is not neccessary for a game dot. 

[Desk-Jockey]

35 minutes ago, mrd said:

If you look at the reviews by Sage Dynamics on youtube, the Holosuns can stand a lot of abuse. The reviewed sights are put through a 2000 round torture test with one handed slide manipulations using the dot and a shoulder height drop test every 500 rounds. SRO broke on first drop, though... 

 

However, for a pure gaming gun I'd go with a dot with a larger window that can handle recoil well. To be drop safe is not neccessary for a game dot. 

I did watch their SRO review and it gives me pause about that one.  
 

I agree that I don’t need a riggedized sight for gun games but I want to avoid something too fragile.  Just in the last 5 months I have seen 3 dropped guns at matches.   Not 5 feet on concrete but definitely guns in the dirt.   None of the sights - two c mores and a  hol0sun - broke but I can’t say if the zero held.      

[Racinready300ex]

37 minutes ago, Desk-Jockey said:

I did watch their SRO review and it gives me pause about that one.  
 

I agree that I don’t need a riggedized sight for gun games but I want to avoid something too fragile.  Just in the last 5 months I have seen 3 dropped guns at matches.   Not 5 feet on concrete but definitely guns in the dirt.   None of the sights - two c mores and a  hol0sun - broke but I can’t say if the zero held.      

 

He drops it 5' on to concrete. If that happens in a match you're DQ'd anyway. Any dot with a big window and a thin frame around the lens is going to fail his test. The only way to pass is going to be smaller windows with thicker body like the Holosun's. But competitors tend to want big glass to see more. It's one of those can't have you're cake and eat it to kind of things I think. 

 

Holosun's are pretty solid, and they can turn around a warranty repair in 14 days including shipping both ways during the peak of Covid. Guess how I know. 

[Desk-Jockey]

43 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

He drops it 5' on to concrete. If that happens in a match you're DQ'd anyway. Any dot with a big window and a thin frame around the lens is going to fail his test. The only way to pass is going to be smaller windows with thicker body like the Holosun's. But competitors tend to want big glass to see more. It's one of those can't have you're cake and eat it to kind of things I think. 

 

Holosun's are pretty solid, and they can turn around a warranty repair in 14 days including shipping both ways during the peak of Covid. Guess how I know. 

Fair points.  Thanks

 

for what it is worth, I am still tilting toward the SRO but based on some feedback here and elsewhere I want to spend some more time with the decision.  

Edited October 14, 2020 by Desk-Jockey

[The Donald]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

He drops it 5' on to concrete. If that happens in a match you're DQ'd anyway. Any dot with a big window and a thin frame around the lens is going to fail his test. The only way to pass is going to be smaller windows with thicker body like the Holosun's. But competitors tend to want big glass to see more. It's one of those can't have you're cake and eat it to kind of things I think. 

 

Holosun's are pretty solid, and they can turn around a warranty repair in 14 days including shipping both ways during the peak of Covid. Guess how I know. 

Also Aaron has a full magazine in the pistol when he drops it. Now when people drop a pistol it is usually not directly on the optic. 

[Rich406]

Given today’s options, I wouldn’t use anything other than a SRO or R3 for gaming.

[Racinready300ex]

29 minutes ago, The Donald said:

Also Aaron has a full magazine in the pistol when he drops it. Now when people drop a pistol it is usually not directly on the optic. 

 

Good point, didn't think about the mag being full, of course some of our CO guns weight more empty then his glock does loaded. I think his test is pretty extreme but might make sense if you're going to use it for duty where someone might be trying to get your gun from you. In a struggle who knows what will happen.

 

For us, his test is going to break the glass before we ever get the information we need. What I want to know is how does it hold up after 10k or 20k rounds. A 10k round life expectancy isn't good enough for what we do IMO. I'd like it to be in the 30-40K plus range. So far I don't know that any really do that, but I have heard from a few guys that have put that many rounds on a SRO with out failure.

 

This is my first season of CO, I shot about 15k and killed one SRO and one Holosun 407. Neither had high round counts when they died. I'm still waiting to get the SRO back, but the holosun has taken a beating since getting it back and this one is going strong. 

[Chutist]

I was where you are a couple of months back:

SRO

Holosun

Delta Point Pro

Sig Romeo Max

C-more

 

I watched a bunch of videos, looked at all the CO guns I could find... Looked at the USPSA Equipment Survey.  ALL of them have reported breakage...  Everybody reports the manufactures seemed to be fixing them or giving you a new one.  

 

I went with the Sig Romeo Max - It was purpose built for CO and seems to be the newest design. I liked the size of the glass and the dot looked good. Has good battery live with auto shut off and shake awake. Springer has a plate to put it on my X5....Done.  

[Cam73]

Here is an option for the SRO guys wanting added durability. Adds 1 oz. though.

http://jagerwerks.com/pre-order-b-r-o-s-4-6-weeks/

 

I've gone mostly to Holosun for pistol optics after trying various other brands. No failures or bad dots out of the box, can't speak for their CS or long term durability yet. Hopefully they come out with a big window model for pistols someday, I'd be all over that.