Are these primers too flat? Should I be alarmed?

[BigJerm]

Thanks for bearing with my newbie questions. This is my second batch of reloads ever. I shot 3 federal HST’s (top 3, silver) for reference and then 5 of my reloads. Compared the brass for high pressure signs. They look flat, do they not? From you veterans out there, would you keep shooting this ammo or get rid of it and drop the powder charge in the next batch?

 

Before someone asks, I did not chrono these. The range I’m a member at had the chrono locked up for the day. They cycled fine in my CZ, but as a new reloader, these primers made me stop shooting

 

 

 

 

EDIT: The load is 147gr RN Blue Bullets over 2.9gr Titegroup, 1.080” OAL, assorted brass, federal primers.

Edited June 27, 2020 by BigJerm

[George16]

The center one on the bottom looks flat. What powder and bullet combo are you using?

[BigJerm]

17 minutes ago, George16 said:

The center one on the bottom looks flat. What powder and bullet combo are you using?

See my edit, forgot to include in original post.

[Cherokeewind]

What primers are you using.

Federal primers have soft cups and will probably look flatter than other brands even with the same (safe) loads.

[BigJerm]

Just now, Cherokeewind said:

What primers are you using.

Federal primers have soft cups and will probably look flatter than other brands even with the same (safe) loads.

They are Federal. Makes sense I hadn’t thought of that.

[Cherokeewind]

My reloads with Federal primers always look flatter than Win, Rem or CCI primers.  I don't load for 9mm.  I load .44 mag, .45 ACP and .38/.357.

[nhyrum]

If say they have a normal amount of flattening. The edge of still rather round, with just surface flattening. Just enough to seal everything (at least that's what my brain is thinking.)

They do look a touch cratered though, but that could simply be firing pin clearance

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[GrumpyOne]

1.080 is pretty short for a 147. If your barrel will accommodate, I'd load those a bit longer. I use Win primers, Precision Delta 147 FMJ's, and N320. The rounds for my Shadow are 1.150 OAL.

[BigJerm]

1 hour ago, GrumpyOne said:

1.080 is pretty short for a 147. If your barrel will accommodate, I'd load those a bit longer. I use Win primers, Precision Delta 147 FMJ's, and N320. The rounds for my Shadow are 1.150 OAL.

Can’t, that’s how I got to the 1.080. My first batch was 1.100 and most of them didn’t chamber. Did the plunk test, and they all feed reliably now

[GrumpyOne]

7 minutes ago, BigJerm said:

Can’t, that’s how I got to the 1.080. My first batch was 1.100 and most of them didn’t chamber. Did the plunk test, and they all feed reliably now

Where did you come up with the 2.9 of Titegroup from? Did that recipe have the same OAL as what you are loading? Was it the same Blue Bullet?

[Farmer]

Bottom center is “getting there”. I’ve had some crater within the same loading while others look fine. Hell I’ve had factory stuff flatter and more cratered than your bottom center. 

[nhyrum]

Bottom center is “getting there”. I’ve had some crater within the same loading while others look fine. Hell I’ve had factory stuff flatter and more cratered than your bottom center. 

Don't get me started on Hornady factory loads... Hell, their 230 eldx in 300 rum is hot as hell. Box says 2900,I chromed 3050... Primers often didn't stay in the case

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[Farmer]

 Sounds like they haven’t changed. Bro in law gave me some once fired 30-06 Frontier brass and the primers looked like they were part of the case head.  

[Blast]

Since primers from different manufacturers have different material thicknesses and materials, the evaluation of the gas pressure on the condition of the fired primer is not very helpful!
In addition, the primer does not know in which caliber it was loaded.

This should be obvious with the example .38 Spl and 357 Mag. A .38 Spl has a much lower permissible gas pressure than the 357 Mag. 
If the gas pressure is exceeded with a .38 Spl, then the primer should have overpressure signs, but a 357 Mag would not have overpressure signs at the same pressure. 

 

A meaningful assessment of the gas pressure can only be made by measuring the gas pressure.

 

[stick]

I have a couple of questions.

1) what did the cases look like before you fired them?  I run titegroup exclusively for 9mm and I know it's dirty, but did those fall in the mud?  The cases look like they have excessive powder burn.

2) what press are they loaded on?

3) what's the crimp on the case/bullet?

 

Do you plan on running them in a chrono?

[HesedTech]

I use Federal primers and you are not even close to having a problem. Shoot away.

 

When I was loading with TG I used 147 ACMEs with 3.2 grains at 1.14. Also loaded 147 RN from Eggleston at 1.10 same charge of TG. No issues.

[BigJerm]

1 hour ago, stick said:

I have a couple of questions.

1) what did the cases look like before you fired them?  I run titegroup exclusively for 9mm and I know it's dirty, but did those fall in the mud?  The cases look like they have excessive powder burn.

2) what press are they loaded on?

3) what's the crimp on the case/bullet?

 

Do you plan on running them in a chrono?

1. Since I’m new, I don’t have a tumbler yet. So these were cleaned using the “salt and vinegar” method. They came out shiny but then I put them in the oven to dry them, and they became super tarnished like that. So, long story short, they looked exactly like that before I shot them.

2. Lee turret

3. Lee factory crimp die, set up exactly per Lee’s instructions on their YouTube channel.

[IHAVEGAS]

15 hours ago, BigJerm said:

Before someone asks, I did not chrono these. The range I’m a member at had the chrono locked up for the day.

 

Chrono's can be had for just under $100.

 

Very worth it to me. 

[Cherokeewind]

17 hours ago, nhyrum said:

If say they have a normal amount of flattening. The edge of still rather round, with just surface flattening. Just enough to seal everything (at least that's what my brain is thinking.)

They do look a touch cratered though, but that could simply be firing pin clearance

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+1
 

 

[stick]

3 hours ago, BigJerm said:

1. Since I’m new, I don’t have a tumbler yet. So these were cleaned using the “salt and vinegar” method. They came out shiny but then I put them in the oven to dry them, and they became super tarnished like that. So, long story short, they looked exactly like that before I shot them.

2. Lee turret

3. Lee factory crimp die, set up exactly per Lee’s instructions on their YouTube channel.

Nothing wrong with the Turret Press.  I started out on a Turret press many years ago.  I still use mine as a single stage.

I would ditch the salt and vinegar and go with dawn dish soap.

[Farmer]

Dawn and Lemi-shine works well. A squirt of Dawn and about a Tbs+ of Lemi in a gallon of water works pretty good. Dump in a plastic or SS bowl and swirl them around. They WILL be very dry though, as in very clean surface wise. You can add a little Turtle Wax Wash-n-Shine instead of the Dawn  to slick them up for easier sizing. 

[Postal Bob]

12 hours ago, BigJerm said:

1. Since I’m new, I don’t have a tumbler yet. So these were cleaned using the “salt and vinegar” method.

Never heard of such a method for cleaning. I use salt and vinegar to make blued metal parts and brass looked aged when having to replace certain parts on antique guns. Left too long in solution, it will completely corrode and eat away the metal. Stop using this as you may be weakening your brass cases.

 

Now, as far as your primers, they look fine. Federal are very soft. I stopped using them because I was flattening primers when inserting them during the reload process. Too much primer press pressure, and they begin to flatten. What did your loads look like before firing?

[CZGeoege]

Very common with federal primers, if your velocities are within safe margins I’d say you are ok.

[CZGeoege]

Titegroup gets very spikey sometimes, I’d suggest a slower powder especially for a new reloader like your self. Try N320 or Alliant sport pistol.

Edited July 1, 2020 by CZGeoege
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