taat2d Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Hi I’m looking to buy a CZ 91763, Accushadow 2. Can anyone tell me for certain if this gun is USPSA production legal? Been trying to find out from USPSA since I didn’t see it on the approved gun list. I called a few times and sent a few emails and I’m still waiting for a response. I’m hearing it is legal and then I hear that it’s not. I don’t want to plunk down all that money only to find out that it’s NOT legal. Thanks in advance for any help on this matter. -Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoRivera Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) The regular Accushadow was production legal, so one would assume that this is as well. But yeah, you should try to get official word. I don't know if it's over a certain weight limit or not. For example, the 75B Bull Shadow is production legal but the SP01 Bull Shadow is not. I think Stuart at CZ Custom would know. Edited January 31, 2020 by MoRivera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benevolence Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 From what I’ve seen on another thread where an individual sent an email to DNROI, the accushadow1 is legal but the accushadow2 is not yet due to 2,000 units not being sold. Taking a Shadow 2 and doing the czcustom accubushing install is legal though. Logic need not apply lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taat2d Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 49 minutes ago, Benevolence said: From what I’ve seen on another thread where an individual sent an email to DNROI, the accushadow1 is legal but the accushadow2 is not yet due to 2,000 units not being sold. Taking a Shadow 2 and doing the czcustom accubushing install is legal though. Logic need not apply lol Lol. You ain’t kidding!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteDingo Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 So, basically, you had the bushing installed. I've seen responses from at least one AD on here that they wouldn't even question it at a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 17 minutes ago, WhiteDingo said: I've seen responses from at least one AD on here that they wouldn't even question it at a match. Why waste time questioning customized race-mods on ‘Production’ guns when answer is always yes these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benevolence Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 19 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said: Why waste time questioning customized race-mods on ‘Production’ guns when answer is always yes these days? I think manufacturers really pushed the DNROI to allow user modifications because they started coming out with competition specific models. Dumb that Sig can do what they did with the p320 x5 Legion. Seems like if they want a purist Production division they should pick the main full size 9 and 40 from the manufacturer and say no mods allowed period. G17, M&p9, XD9, CZ-75b, etc. and their 40sw counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SV650Squid Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 22 hours ago, Benevolence said: I think manufacturers really pushed the DNROI to allow user modifications because they started coming out with competition specific models. Dumb that Sig can do what they did with the p320 x5 Legion. Seems like if they want a purist Production division they should pick the main full size 9 and 40 from the manufacturer and say no mods allowed period. G17, M&p9, XD9, CZ-75b, etc. and their 40sw counterparts. That's completely unenforceable. Do you expect RO's, that are unpaid volunteers, to be knowledgeable of every single gun on the Production list and know exactly what every single factory/aftermarket part looks like? Even then, you cannot tell the difference between unmarked springs, etc. Having a list of guns, a set of action types (DA/SA, Striker), a magazine limit, and let most mods go because people like to tinker is much easier and leads to more people having a gun that can compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demp223 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 On 1/31/2020 at 3:18 PM, taat2d said: Lol. You ain’t kidding!!! The rules for production clearly state no milling of slide except for sights. The acubishing is 1911 style and requires milling therefore not legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taat2d Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 I heard back from Jodi at USPSA and she told me that the Accushadow 2 and the Shadow 2 Orange are NOT production legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy9 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I think that 21.3 gives opportunity for interpretation Here are the production rules about the slides and barrels from the rule book: 21.2a Slide and Frame Refinishing Cosmetically enhancing the finish of a slide and/or frame is ALLOWED in Production Division, provided that the finish provides no competitive advantage, and subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic only, no competitive advantage). 21.2b Milling of Slide A slide may be modified specifically for installing sights, and for no other purpose. Slide racking devices are prohibited. USPSA Competition Rules January 2019 100 21.3 Aftermarket slides and barrels SLIDES: You may replace the slide with an OFM or aftermarket slide of the same length, contour and caliber as the original slide for that model of gun. BARRELS: You may replace the barrel with an OFM or aftermarket barrel which is of the same length, and caliber as the original barrel for that model of gun. Special Notes/Clarifications: A barrel within +/- 0.1” of OFM is the same length. Barrels of the same length and caliber but with different crown profiles are authorized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunachaser Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Lots of wiggle room! Still I would prefer someone else argued this one out with the match director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benevolence Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/251333-accu-shadow-2/?do=findComment&comment=2800780 it should just be the 2000 units sold requirement that was/is limiting it from being legal Edited February 4, 2020 by Benevolence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliv2 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Just send an email. They'll make it production legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunachaser Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 I'm hoping the CZC AO1 becomes USPSA production legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regor Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 On 2/1/2020 at 8:29 PM, Demp223 said: The rules for production clearly state no milling of slide except for sights. The acubishing is 1911 style and requires milling therefore not legal. D4.21.6 says [Emphasis mine] : "Sights, firing pins, firing pin retainers, pins, extractors, magazine releases, slide stops, thumb safeties, triggers, hammers, bushings, and ejectors MAY be replaced with OFM or aftermarket parts. Exchange of OFM parts between different models of Production approved guns is allowed." Multiple people, myself included, have confirmed with NROI that this rule makes it legal to install the Accu-bushing on any other pistol that will accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoRivera Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) But a regular Shadow or Shadow 2 slide needs to be milled to install the other bushing (as opposed to the collet held in by the front sight pin), and the modification is externally visible....is that where the difference lies? But again, as far as I can remember when I had a regular SP01 Accushadow, it was production legal. So maybe it is just manufacturing numbers. Edited February 7, 2020 by MoRivera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regor Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 24 minutes ago, MoRivera said: But a regular Shadow or Shadow 2 slide needs to be milled to install the other bushing (as opposed to the collet held in by the front sight pin), and the modification is externally visible....is that where the difference lies? But again, as far as I can remember when I had a regular SP01 Accushadow, it was production legal. So maybe it is just manufacturing numbers. You are correct that the installation requires milling, but since the Accu-bushing is on a Production legal gun (Accushadow) you can legally install it (which requires milling). That does clash with the "no milling" rule, but one of the two has to be ignored in this case, either you can use aftermarket bushings and any parts from another production legal gun, or you can't. Since the part in question is a bushing, which is explicitly called out, NROI says installing the Accu-bushing on another pistol is legal. 2000 Accushadow 2s have not been sold yet AFAIK, which is why it is not on the Production list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taat2d Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 I got an email from Troy himself stating that the Accushadow 2 is NOT production legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoRivera Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 I'm kind of surprised that 2000 SP01 Accushadows were sold/produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demp223 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 3 hours ago, regor said: You are correct that the installation requires milling, but since the Accu-bushing is on a Production legal gun (Accushadow) you can legally install it (which requires milling). That does clash with the "no milling" rule, but one of the two has to be ignored in this case, either you can use aftermarket bushings and any parts from another production legal gun, or you can't. Since the part in question is a bushing, which is explicitly called out, NROI says installing the Accu-bushing on another pistol is legal. 2000 Accushadow 2s have not been sold yet AFAIK, which is why it is not on the Production list. Sorry. No milling allowed. Just because it is a legal part on one gun doesn’t mean it will be legal on another due to milling being required to fit the part. It is not an interchangeable part. Milling is Expressly prohibited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regor Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Demp223 said: Sorry. No milling allowed. Just because it is a legal part on one gun doesn’t mean it will be legal on another due to milling being required to fit the part. It is not an interchangeable part. Milling is Expressly prohibited. Feel free to tell NROI that they are wrong about their multiple rulings on the legality of installing an Accu-bushing in another CZ. You'll be told the same thing I and many others have been told: it's legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoRivera Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) The CZ SP-01 Accushadow is on the USPSA list for approved Production guns.... https://uspsa.org/productionlist ...so by that measure, it shouldn't be an issue about the milling since it has to be done on that gun too. Maybe because of the Accushadow 2 not meeting 2000-units, it's still considered a 'customization' with that model, rather than a standard (or alternate version) production feature....or what have you. Edited February 8, 2020 by MoRivera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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