Assault Manager Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Anyone using D.R.Middlebrooks "Fist-Fire" method? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 of course not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Well he taught his lawn boy at around 11yo, He seemed to do alright with it. You might know him these days. Daniel Horner, Actually just about everyone is using parts of it. People where still shooting weaver when he was developing it. The thumbs forward wrist lock. Barbara Middlebrook was also a pretty good teacher, Seems she has a few National champs in IDPA under her belt. They have gotten away from teaching for a long time now. Techniques evolve and change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Basically DR never took a class or trained with anyone and so invented his own technique. Says as much in his book. Which turns out to be more or less much the same technique everyone else developed because its what works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 "Competition is a crucible, that which works rises to the top, that which doesnt is cast aside"... DR Middlebrook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBomber Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 This is like a blast from the past. Now I'm going to have to dig out his DVD and watch it again. Haven't watched it in over a dozen years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 OK. I give up. What the heck is the "fist-fire method"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 I'll be honest, I thought OP was referring to Center Axis Relock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Flatland Shooter said: OK. I give up. What the heck is the "fist-fire method"? Some threads from the past... https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/47167-drm-fistfire/ https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/32-point-shooting/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 I'll be honest, I thought OP was referring to Center Axis RelockI was gonna make a joke about that last night, but I couldn't remember the name of the damn thing.I love the part in center axis relock where it's an advantage that your nose blocks your dominant eye. You only see one set of sights that way you know...Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Haven't heard about this particular flavor until now, but it looks like point shooting. If this is indeed a variant of point shooting, it's been debated quite a bit - shooting off of index is based on the training to have perfect presentation, which in turn means that the sights would appear lined up in front of the eyes anyways and with no extra time requirement. So, not using sights is a handicap with no benefit. The trick is in what "using" means - on close shots, it means getting to the acceptable sight picture (and no more), on fast splits and shooting at high speed it means calling shots and knowing when the grip/stance/timing was off and the shot went off target, on far targets it means aligning them carefully and not disturbing them during trigger pull (another version of calling shots), and on bullseye shooting it means hard front sight focus and no-movement trigger press. Most of the point shooting advocates I've seen tend not to recognize that point shooting is an unnecessary subset of shooting with sights. It's mostly used at high speed and close distances. However, at high speed and close distances the acceptable sight picture is not only quite loose, but it's used to call the shot, not to aim. Not noticing the sights and not using the information they provide is just a waste of information (and not speed) that becomes progressively more problematic as the distances or difficulties increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xfactor Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 of course not LMFAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assault Manager Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 Fist-Fire method is Not, repeat not, about point shooting per say- [it may appear so because at close distances only, point shooting -indexed shots are advocated] D.R. Middlebrooks coined this method, if you will, sometime before 2002. It includes various reloading protocols, a 'full' roll-over wrist lock, the reverse Chapman at full extension, using thumb and pinking for emergency slide-stop release, the sentry position, a roll out presentation, dominate eye indexing even when using iron sights, movement methods and so on. Searching Google (or the like) and YouTube can give a initial view, albeit superficial, typing in "Fist-Fire", "D.R.Middlebrooks" or "Tactical Shooting Academy." should to the trick. PS: It is my understanding the DR did take classes and train with people, if that is important to someone. Yes, many of this ideas are being used now and many are not - if that matters. What has the highest probably for success interreges me the most. Personally, I am not opposed to something just because it is not new anymore than it is the way it has been done for year. I don't feel biases, angst, hyperbole help anyone anymore than running off on tangents. Simply thought it might be nice to chat with someone who favors Middlebrooks ways. Thank you for you time and listening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 32 minutes ago, Assault Manager said: Fist-Fire method is Not, repeat not, about point shooting... Can you elaborate a bit? I did a quick search and it was mostly about demonstrations, but then selling the training material - nothing wrong with that, just can't tell what it is at the core. I also didn't want to spend too much time searching for details... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 36 minutes ago, Assault Manager said: Yes, many of this ideas are being used now and many are not - if that matters. What has the highest probably for success interreges me the most. Personally, I am not opposed to something just because it is not new anymore than it is the way it has been done for year. I don't feel biases, angst, hyperbole help anyone anymore than running off on tangents. Probably what most on this forum agree - performance drives technique. However, precisely because the performance measures are objective, they necessarily cannot be rooted in "biases, angst and hyperbole." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 I see no real issues with DRM and FF. I would debate the merits of putting the thumbs on the gun, and have. I don't raise my support elbow as much (Vogel does...worth experimenting with). The draw stroke is more deliberate than what we tend to see. Nothing wrong with that in general. Might not translate into a game like Steel Challenge (lots of draws in a match...where tenths of a second, and less, really add up). His FF book is short, easy to read, and efficient. It is also effective. He does have strong opinions. He is waaaay above the traditional point shooting crowd, as he understand index and they have tended to be clueless on the matter over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 On 1/30/2020 at 1:27 PM, IVC said: Can you elaborate a bit? I did a quick search and it was mostly about demonstrations, but then selling the training material - nothing wrong with that, just can't tell what it is at the core. I also didn't want to spend too much time searching for details... I'd help you out there, but I don't want to spend too much time on typing up details. Seriously...short answer is that FF has a specific draw stroke focus that allows for effective shooting from retention, from pressing out to extension and then from full extension (where one would typically then "see" the sights). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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