Care to share some RO tips or experiences we can learn from

[XDoctor]

Don't be afraid to ask the shooter which way they're going, if there are options.  You don't want to be in a collision and cause a reshoot. 

 

And do not let overbearing people tell you how to RO your stage.  I had a guy last year insist that if the paper tore around his bullet, it was a hit to the edge of the tear, so his C zone hits were Alphas.  He's been an RO since before I was born, and immediately went to shouting when I disagreed.  It's important to know when to stand your ground and get the RM involved. 

[JonasAberg]

Another one...

There are times when you have a large stage and/or lots of props with multiple people pasting targets. In these situations, I like to go to a place where I can observe everyone and be the last one to head back. That way I make sure there isn't anyone left at the "load and make ready".

[CHA-LEE]

Here are my Top ROing Tips.....

 

1 - Read the rule book from cover to cover. I know its a boring read but you need to do it in order to get a good understanding of the full rule set. Nobody is expected to remember all of the rules word for word without needing to referencing them for clarification. But its good to become familiar with the common rules that come into question at matches.

 

2 - Practice looking up rules and understanding rulings. Just like you practice your shooting skills, you need to practice the skill of finding rules within the book and understanding the rulings. This can be painful in the middle of a match if its really not needed. But at a minimum you can take note of the scenario and research it after the match.

 

3 - Practice running shooters as both the Timer and Score Keeper rolls. Getting first hand experience while ROing shooters is always going to be your number one training tool. As others have already mentioned ROing at majors will usually give you a much deeper level of experience vs only doing local matches with the same group of people all the time.

 

4 - There is no need to crowd the shooter through the whole stage run as the Timer RO. If you step back a few paces after initiating the start signal it allows you to see much more while not getting into a foot race situation with the shooter. Most stages have a very predictable ending position or positions and you can usually tell where they will finish based on their path through the stage. Knowing where they will finish will allow you to casually move that direction while still observing the shooter effectively. You don't have to be right on top of the shooter to pick up their shots.

 

5 - Avoid any vocal communication other than the official range commands before giving the Make Ready command and during the stage run. For example, if the next shooter isn't in the starting position I will look them in the eye, then point my finger and head at the start position. This makes it clear without saying anything where I want them to be before I issue the "Make Ready" command.

 

6 - Ensure that you have a 1 - 4 second delay between the "Stand By" command and the start signal beep. Nobody likes getting a "Fast Beep" where the Stand By is instantly followed by the start signal. If you struggle with fast beeping people then count out the delay in your head "One one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand....BEEP".

 

7 - The Timer and Score Keeper RO's need to work together as a team in order to perform the overall task effectively. Here are a couple of examples that will help improve efficiency and accuracy. After the shooter finishes their stage run and you have verified that the timer has picked up the last shot accurately, point the timer screen at the score keeping RO so they can see and input the time while you are issuing the remaining range commands. As the Timer RO, while you are calling the target hits WAIT to hear the same scoring call being repeated by the score keeping RO. As the Score Keeping RO, WAIT to repeat the scoring call back to the timer RO until AFTER you have input the score on the tablet. Doing this will minimize the chance of the Timer RO calling out scores at a pace faster than you can input the scores.

 

8 - Accept the fact that you will screw up the job every once in a while. Learn from those mistakes so they don't happen again. Also don't be afraid to be wrong and end up changing your ruling call after you have gotten further clarification or researched the rules. The value isn't in providing the "Fastest" answer. Value is in providing the correct answer. If you need to ask for help, ask for it. If you need time to look at the rule book to get a clarification, take the time to do so.

 

9 - For safety violation calls you need to be 100% confident that a violation happened. There is no room for a call that isn't definitive. I hear a lot of RO make invalid statements like "It was close" or "I think I seen it happen". You are either 100% sure you seen it happen or you were not 100% sure. If you were not 100% sure then don't make the call. I also take that a step further by not warning shooters after their runs when they are "CLOSE" to making safety violations. Giving these shooters warnings produces zero change in their behavior. These shooters usually need to learn these lessons the hard way by being DQed when they perform the safety violation.

 

10 - RO the shooters the same way you would want to be ROed, which should be in a fair, accurate and unbiased manner. Also realize that some shooters may have make ready or unload processes that you dislike but are in fact perfectly legal. If a shooter needs their full 2 minutes to make ready, then so be it. If they want to do a flip and catch of their round on the unload, who cares.  

 

11 - A big part of the ROing job is keeping the squad on task to churn through the stages in an efficient manner. Practical shooting matches are a social event and there will always be some level of conversation happening within the squad while they wait for their turn to shoot. Unfortunately this social interaction usually translates to people standing around doing nothing other than talking when they should be working on resetting the stage, brassing or even sharing in the RO duties. Don't be afraid to crack the whip on the squad as needed when the slacking gets excessive. This is usually best done with a stern verbal reminder to the squad as a whole, such as "Stop screwing around and help reset the stage!!!" or something similar. Along those same lines, its best to lead by example. Regardless of me ROing or not, if targets need taped or steel reset, I will do it. Just because you are ROing doesn't mean that you can stand around and wait for the rest of the squad to do everything else for you.

 

12 - Its the timer RO's job to ensure that the stage is fully reset before starting the next shooter. Take a short lap around the stage to ensure that all of the targets are taped or reset. Use that opportunity to ensure that nobody else is down range of you as you head back to the start position.

 

13 - If you are too lazy to stay updated on the rules or feel that its too much work to RO properly, then DON'T DO THE JOB. Doing the job in a poor ineffective manner is absolutely worse than simply refusing to RO when asked to. This is a volunteer sport that requires the competitors to pitch in to help make it happen. Being a volunteer doesn't justify doing the job in a half ass manner. Either do the job right, or don't do it.

Edited January 29, 2020 by CHA-LEE

[XDoctor]

14 hours ago, JonasAberg said:

Another one...

There are times when you have a large stage and/or lots of props with multiple people pasting targets. In these situations, I like to go to a place where I can observe everyone and be the last one to head back. That way I make sure there isn't anyone left at the "load and make ready".

 

I'm not sure that can be stressed enough.  At a multigun match last year, shooting with the staff and taking turns as RO for each other, one of the guys got in a hurry and had me load and make ready.  I inserted a mag, and as I was doing a press check, two guys came walking around a blind corner 20' in front of me.  Happened again, later in the day with the same RO on a different stage, but it was me downrange.  He still doesn't understand why I was so upset, or why I refused to paste targets while he ran the timer.   

[CHA-LEE]

10 minutes ago, XDoctor said:

 

I'm not sure that can be stressed enough.  At a multigun match last year, shooting with the staff and taking turns as RO for each other, one of the guys got in a hurry and had me load and make ready.  I inserted a mag, and as I was doing a press check, two guys came walking around a blind corner 20' in front of me.  Happened again, later in the day with the same RO on a different stage, but it was me downrange.  He still doesn't understand why I was so upset, or why I refused to paste targets while he ran the timer.   

 

That issue gets fixed by not having that guy RO anymore. See my Tip # 13 above. Do the job right or don't do the job.

[thermobollocks]

After a couple of times being on the wrong end of the range when I heard a "make ready," if I am the timer RO, I often insist on shepherding the resetters back uprange after scoring.

 

Also I cannot emphasize enough basically everything Cha-Lee said. Dude knows how to run a match.

 

In terms of mindset, it's really important to remember you're not there to "get" anyone, you're there to apply the rules with consistency and professionalism. No, we don't get paid, but I frequently have to remind myself that the way I treat my buddies should be the same way I treat strangers, which should be the same way I treat people I maybe don't get along with. That's a big part of professionalism.

Edited January 30, 2020 by thermobollocks

[Sarge]

I make a point to always be the last person back uprange when running shooters. I also make admin notes on the WSB stating where I will start and finish scoring EVERY TIME. This all but eliminates premature pasting

[GrumpyOne]

17 minutes ago, Sarge said:

I make a point to always be the last person back uprange when running shooters. I also make admin notes on the WSB stating where I will start and finish scoring EVERY TIME. This all but eliminates premature pasting

Sarge, you run an excellent stage.

[ima45dv8]

In no particular order...

 

 - Yes, be the last one off the stage. If someone sees a target that was fully pasted and goes down to attend it, go with them. No one gets behind you.

 - As someone said, make sure the timer is getting the last few shots. You don't have to stop watching the shooter. Hold the timer up (mic forward) in your peripheral vision and verify it's counting. Glance at the time after last shot then protect the timer.

 - Have the other RO call back times and scores. . .every time. The two of you need to work together to get things right. If you get one of those folks that just says, "I've got it! Keep going", without calling back the scores, it's time for a private talk about being accountable.

 - Do a quick visual inspection of the shooters gear, including eye/ear protection when they come to the line. Better to address those issues before rather than after. 

- Escalate as needed. And that's not just the shooters call. If you need help from the RM, call them. Just because a shooter suddenly backtracks and says not to call, do it if you need/want to. The RM is there to help you. That's why they get paid more. 

 - Check your steel/props during reset. A quick knuckle test on the steel can let you know if it's getting wonky before it becomes a problem. Same with the range surface. If debris is starting to pile up at the starting position or elsewhere, clear it as needed.

 - If a shooter tells they're turning this way, or going that way, thank them, but don't take it as Gospel. Be fully prepared that their plan may change when they hear the timer (beeps can do that, you know).

 - Be courteous and professional, and be sure of your call. If you do realize you might have goofed and called Stop in error, it's just a restart. 

 - Don't quote rules to a shooter. Pull it up from wherever/whatever source and read it to them. You'll both benefit. 

 - If the shooter finishes the CoF, and then randomly wanders away, maybe downrange, before the CoF has been declared finished by "Range Is Clear", don't panic. Don't say "Stop". Just repeat the last command and continue. Why? Because some unscrupulous competitors want a reshoot (maybe they know they popped a NS or missed a shot) and want you to say Stop so that they can argue that you stopped them prematurely. This has happened at all levels of events, including the Nationals. Stay calm and focus on the process.

 - If a shooter is swinging their gun in an unsafe direction, do not grab their arm. You could cause a sympathetic reaction leading to a shot fired in that unsafe direction. Try to prepare yourself to use your arm to block their movement if needed, but don't grab them.

 

==========================================

So how was the class? Who was the instructor? 

 

 

 

[ima45dv8]

I was working on this for a while. Looks like some smart people covered most of what I wanted to say in the meantime.

Great topic.

[Matt1]

Here are my Top ROing Tips.....
 
1 - Read the rule book from cover to cover. I know its a boring read but you need to do it in order to get a good understanding of the full rule set. Nobody is expected to remember all of the rules word for word without needing to referencing them for clarification. But its good to become familiar with the common rules that come into question at matches.
 
2 - Practice looking up rules and understanding rulings. Just like you practice your shooting skills, you need to practice the skill of finding rules within the book and understanding the rulings. This can be painful in the middle of a match if its really not needed. But at a minimum you can take note of the scenario and research it after the match.
 
3 - Practice running shooters as both the Timer and Score Keeper rolls. Getting first hand experience while ROing shooters is always going to be your number one training tool. As others have already mentioned ROing at majors will usually give you a much deeper level of experience vs only doing local matches with the same group of people all the time.
 
4 - There is no need to crowd the shooter through the whole stage run as the Timer RO. If you step back a few paces after initiating the start signal it allows you to see much more while not getting into a foot race situation with the shooter. Most stages have a very predictable ending position or positions and you can usually tell where they will finish based on their path through the stage. Knowing where they will finish will allow you to casually move that direction while still observing the shooter effectively. You don't have to be right on top of the shooter to pick up their shots.
 
5 - Avoid any vocal communication other than the official range commands before giving the Make Ready command and during the stage run. For example, if the next shooter isn't in the starting position I will look them in the eye, then point my finger and head at the start position. This makes it clear without saying anything where I want them to be before I issue the "Make Ready" command.
 
6 - Ensure that you have a 1 - 4 second delay between the "Stand By" command and the start signal beep. Nobody likes getting a "Fast Beep" where the Stand By is instantly followed by the start signal. If you struggle with fast beeping people then count out the delay in your head "One one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand....BEEP".
 
7 - The Timer and Score Keeper RO's need to work together as a team in order to perform the overall task effectively. Here are a couple of examples that will help improve efficiency and accuracy. After the shooter finishes their stage run and you have verified that the timer has picked up the last shot accurately, point the timer screen at the score keeping RO so they can see and input the time while you are issuing the remaining range commands. As the Timer RO, while you are calling the target hits WAIT to hear the same scoring call being repeated by the score keeping RO. As the Score Keeping RO, WAIT to repeat the scoring call back to the timer RO until AFTER you have input the score on the tablet. Doing this will minimize the chance of the Timer RO calling out scores at a pace faster than you can input the scores.
 
8 - Accept the fact that you will screw up the job every once in a while. Learn from those mistakes so they don't happen again. Also don't be afraid to be wrong and end up changing your ruling call after you have gotten further clarification or researched the rules. The value isn't in providing the "Fastest" answer. Value is in providing the correct answer. If you need to ask for help, ask for it. If you need time to look at the rule book to get a clarification, take the time to do so.
 
9 - For safety violation calls you need to be 100% confident that a violation happened. There is no room for a call that isn't definitive. I hear a lot of RO make invalid statements like "It was close" or "I think I seen it happen". You are either 100% sure you seen it happen or you were not 100% sure. If you were not 100% sure then don't make the call. I also take that a step further by not warning shooters after their runs when they are "CLOSE" to making safety violations. Giving these shooters warnings produces zero change in their behavior. These shooters usually need to learn these lessons the hard way by being DQed when they perform the safety violation.
 
10 - RO the shooters the same way you would want to be ROed, which should be in a fair, accurate and unbiased manner. Also realize that some shooters may have make ready or unload processes that you dislike but are in fact perfectly legal. If a shooter needs their full 2 minutes to make ready, then so be it. If they want to do a flip and catch of their round on the unload, who cares.  
 
11 - A big part of the ROing job is keeping the squad on task to churn through the stages in an efficient manner. Practical shooting matches are a social event and there will always be some level of conversation happening within the squad while they wait for their turn to shoot. Unfortunately this social interaction usually translates to people standing around doing nothing other than talking when they should be working on resetting the stage, brassing or even sharing in the RO duties. Don't be afraid to crack the whip on the squad as needed when the slacking gets excessive. This is usually best done with a stern verbal reminder to the squad as a whole, such as "Stop screwing around and help reset the stage!!!" or something similar. Along those same lines, its best to lead by example. Regardless of me ROing or not, if targets need taped or steel reset, I will do it. Just because you are ROing doesn't mean that you can stand around and wait for the rest of the squad to do everything else for you.
 
12 - Its the timer RO's job to ensure that the stage is fully reset before starting the next shooter. Take a short lap around the stage to ensure that all of the targets are taped or reset. Use that opportunity to ensure that nobody else is down range of you as you head back to the start position.
 
13 - If you are too lazy to stay updated on the rules or feel that its too much work to RO properly, then DON'T DO THE JOB. Doing the job in a poor ineffective manner is absolutely worse than simply refusing to RO when asked to. This is a volunteer sport that requires the competitors to pitch in to help make it happen. Being a volunteer doesn't justify doing the job in a half ass manner. Either do the job right, or don't do it.

[emoji109]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[perttime]

Different stages may require different crew setups.

(I mainly go to matches where there's a fixed crew running a stage all day. The crew shoots a "pre-match" the previous day.)

 

The first stage where I worked as a certified RO was a Short IPSC stage: 12 hits, very small area but the stage included a short retreat. Fast and Furious I was put together with a very experienced guy and we would alternate roles: one running the competitor and scoring, the other with the pad and ensuring the next shooter knew it was his/her turn next. There was one other guy just for the patching. Got some good feedback from the experienced RO.... It isn't always pleasant to notice that you didn't get something quite right, but I learned, and we managed a fair and equal treatment of all competitors.

 

At the latest match (our local Yearly match), I was on a Long stage (32 hits) in a pretty large area.. We were four certified ROs and kept the same roles all day for 90 competitors. One guy would do nothing but run with the shooter. Two were scoring, basically one left, one right. I went in the center with the pad (and ensured that everybody knew when it is their turn to shoot). It went quite well after the scoring guys learned to watch each other and get into a rhythm where they weren't calling hits at the same time. Three guys were patching, and resetting the steel. We managed to "process" competitors quite smoothly, and didn't lag behind the shorter stages. Comments on a local forum suggest that we still managed to maintain a friendly and relaxed atmosphere.

Edited January 30, 2020 by perttime

[broadside72]

On 1/28/2020 at 11:00 AM, XDoctor said:

Don't be afraid to ask the shooter which way they're going, if there are options.  You don't want to be in a collision and cause a reshoot. 

 

No, don't do this. Plans change at the last minute and as the RO you should be prepared to move with the shooter regardless of way they say they are going. Having a preconceived notion of the way they are going will keep you from reacting as fast and increase chance of interference if the shooter does something different. Besides, "which way are you going" is not an official range command.

 

Another tip, if you are running the tablet you are the ARO. That means you are an RO not just a score keeper.  You have a job to do regards to safety, foot faults, shoots through hardcover, REF, etc. Scoring is secondary.

 

 

[jdavid1]

15 hours ago, ima45dv8 said:

So how was the class? Who was the instructor? 

 

I was in the class. It was a great class. Very informative and I learned a lot more than I expected. Troy was our instructor. Great guy and great instructor. The match part wasn't that good, but that was more weather related than anything. 

[Sarge]

16 hours ago, GrumpyOne said:

Sarge, you run an excellent stage.

Thanks. I take every bad RO habit I see when shooting a stage and do my best to avoid them when I run one.

[mlmiller1]

On 1/27/2020 at 5:20 PM, konkapot said:

Hey Mark I remember that! Had to change my man diapers afterwards. That was a great club. 

Yeah John it was a great club.  We had a lot of fun back then.  If its any consolation, I learned an important never forgotten lesson.  

We have a pretty great club now too.  Things change but stay the same sort of.  Lol.