Never Reloaded. Have Some Questions.

[BJB]

18 hours ago, XrayDoc88 said:

Am I correct in assuming that talented reloaders NEED a chronograph to help optimize loads?  I believe that you can determine accuracy results and avoid excessive pressure loads simply by visual observation.  But without a chronograph, there's no way to know if you've reached an optimal velocity?

 

I know they're expensive, but does anyone have or recommend the Labradar?  I saw that they were on a modest sale currently.  If not worth the money, what would you recommend?

 

My 2 cents is to recommend getting a simple chronograph up front here as you start reloading and capture your velocities (at 10') as you're shooting your 10-shot groups at 25 yds for accuracy.  You can buy one for ~$100+ and that is just a drop in the bucket of what you'll end up spending in the long run. Capture all your data in a spreadsheet.  You WILL find some of the information useful later on in time if you have it recorded for reference.

[George16]

7 hours ago, XrayDoc88 said:

Ah, decisions, decisions!

 

What have I got myself into?  

Welcome to the club. Its all part of the starting process. Once you get things dialed in, everything’s going to be easy .

 

Just be safe and ask for any clarification if you have any doubts on what you’re about to do.

[XrayDoc88]

As I stated initially, I'm going to learn on 9mm.  I've gradually been buying the essential tools.  There are a few items I haven't purchased however.  Is it common to have to trim 9mm cases?  Should I get a case trimmer and deburring tool before I start?  If yes, any recommendations on which ones?  Also, should I buy any 9mm gauges?  I already have a quality micrometer.

[superdude]

No trimming required. Many semi-auto cartridges shorten with use. 

 

Calipers are good enough for handloading - something accurate to .001 is plenty good for this purpose. 

 

[XrayDoc88]

I've been reading in the Lyman manual.  It says to sort my brass by lot number.  My current goal is to simply create  some decent range ammo.  I have a lot of my own once fired brass, but it is a mixture of many different brands.  I don't have the boxes and no lot numbers.  Should I try to sort the brass by headstamps?  Or can I just label cartridges going forward so I'll know how many times I've reloaded that case, trimmed it, etc?

[MemphisMechanic]

Don’t bother sorting by headstamp. Not until you’ve worked out every other variable and gotten down to, say 1.0-2.5” groups at 25 yards ... and then want to try something else to see if you can shrink group size even further.

 

Most of us have never sorted by headstamp for 9mm handgun ammo.

 

Grab a ProChrono Digital if you want to know your velocites. But only if. For general range use, there’s no need, Stay with known book loads and use group sizes as your benchmark, instead.

 

For case lube OneShot is a terrific choice. Use it. Your shoulder will thank you. I can load without it on my dies... but it halves the force required. I don’t like feeling the burn in my shoulder the day after a loading session.  

[BJB]

52 minutes ago, XrayDoc88 said:

I've been reading in the Lyman manual.  It says to sort my brass by lot number.  My current goal is to simply create  some decent range ammo.  I have a lot of my own once fired brass, but it is a mixture of many different brands.  I don't have the boxes and no lot numbers.  Should I try to sort the brass by headstamps?  Or can I just label cartridges going forward so I'll know how many times I've reloaded that case, trimmed it, etc?

Your stated goal is the same as my goal, to load decent range ammo, and you don't need to sort by headstamp for that.  You'll be able to achieve 10-shot groups at 25 yds around 2" or so with mixed headstamp range pick-up brass and a coated bullet.....which is better than a lot of the bargain bulk 9mm options you can buy.  

However, if you ever get into extreme accuracy, Bullseye, etc., then you'll likely need to sort brass and use a quality jacketed bullet.

[Sarge]

2 hours ago, XrayDoc88 said:

I've been reading in the Lyman manual.  It says to sort my brass by lot number.  My current goal is to simply create  some decent range ammo.  I have a lot of my own once fired brass, but it is a mixture of many different brands.  I don't have the boxes and no lot numbers.  Should I try to sort the brass by headstamps?  Or can I just label cartridges going forward so I'll know how many times I've reloaded that case, trimmed it, etc?

There are two reasons I sort by headstamp even though USPSA does not require extreme accuracy.

1- When reloading most brands feel slightly different going through the press. Thin walls, thick walls, tighter primer pockets etc all create a unique feel. When I load in bulk I want every stroke to feel reasonably the same. This way when something feels off I know something is wrong and stop to check.

2- Because of #1 oals are more consistent and therefore chrono readings tend to produce much lower SD which gives more peace of mind at major matches.

 

  For just plinking or range use I think I would still sort just for reason #1

[olstyn]

YMMV, but I'd say it's not *really* necessary to sort brass most of the time.  Sarge's point about the press running more smoothly and consistently with single headstamp brass is valid, but it's not quite enough on its own for me.

 

I shoot mixed brass for the majority of the year, but I like that extra little bit of consistency that single headstamp loads provide for the one semi-major match I shoot every year, so while I'm loading the rest of the year, I set aside all of the cases I find of one headstamp to be used for that match the following year.  Doesn't really matter which headstamp I choose as long as I get 5-600 rounds worth to make sure I have plenty for the "big" match.  The first year I did it, I used CBC brass because I knew I wanted to get rid of it at a lost brass match.  Last year and the year before, it was Federal because I decided I wanted to use "good" brass for that match.

[XrayDoc88]

So I've finally found some time to actually start the reloading process.  I deprimed and then wet tumbled my brass.  That is really a sweet process for making your brass look new.  I set up my single stage Forster Co-Ax Press and so far I have resized and primed 200 9mm cases.  I've yet to weigh powder and seat bullets, but that should occur soon.  Would it be wise for me to  purchase a bullet puller?  I don't really know the process yet for adjusting the bullet seating depth.  Will I likely go too deep on some and half to pull bullets?  Which style is best, hammer or collet die?

[BJB]

2 hours ago, XrayDoc88 said:

Would it be wise for me to  purchase a bullet puller?  I don't really know the process yet for adjusting the bullet seating depth.  Will I likely go too deep on some and half to pull bullets?  Which style is best, hammer or collet die?

I just have a kinetic hammer.  You really shouldn't be using it too much. 

 

As far as seating depth.....back your seating die out a ways, seat, and then measure the OAL.  Keep adjusting down with the seating die in small increments, on the same cartridge, and keep measuring until you get to your desired OAL.  You shouldn't have any seated too deep that way.

Edited December 9, 2019 by BJB

[XrayDoc88]

OK, I need some help.  I'm using Redding dies and a Forster Co-Ax press.  I'm using 125 gr Hornady HAP bullets.  I have my bullet seating die adjusted so that my C.O.L. is 1.069".  But when I use my Redding tapered crimp die the C.O.L. increases to 1.074".  I feel quite a bit of resistance when using the crimp die and the crimp looks a little severe to me.  I guess the crimp die is squeezing the bullet out a little bit.  Do I back off the crimp die or do I need to do a better job when expanding the case for the bullet?  I thought the crimp die was always adjusted properly when the die rested on the case holder.

[Sarge]

28 minutes ago, XrayDoc88 said:

OK, I need some help.  I'm using Redding dies and a Forster Co-Ax press.  I'm using 125 gr Hornady HAP bullets.  I have my bullet seating die adjusted so that my C.O.L. is 1.069".  But when I use my Redding tapered crimp die the C.O.L. increases to 1.074".  I feel quite a bit of resistance when using the crimp die and the crimp looks a little severe to me.  I guess the crimp die is squeezing the bullet out a little bit.  Do I back off the crimp die or do I need to do a better job when expanding the case for the bullet?  I thought the crimp die was always adjusted properly when the die rested on the case holder.

Taper crimp should be virtually no resistance. Just remove the bell and nothing more

[XrayDoc88]

15 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Taper crimp should be virtually no resistance. Just remove the bell and nothing more

 

So to accomplish that, do I just raise the die off of the shell holder plate?  I don't see any other adjustment.

[Sarge]

1 minute ago, XrayDoc88 said:

 

So to accomplish that, do I just raise the die off of the shell holder plate?  I don't see any other adjustment.

Had to google the die. Yes just back it off until you have about .378 at the mouth of case.

[HesedTech]

I think this is probably the most confusing thread ever here on the forum. 

 

To the OP,

 

You might check to see if anyone in your area teaches  reloading so you can see these techniques in person. 
 

You might also notice there are a lot of techniques and opinions about the whole process, but in the end the goal is the same, good reliable ammo. 
 

Keep at it!

[XrayDoc88]

1 hour ago, HesedTech said:

I think this is probably the most confusing thread ever here on the forum. 

 

To the OP,

 

You might check to see if anyone in your area teaches  reloading so you can see these techniques in person. 
 

You might also notice there are a lot of techniques and opinions about the whole process, but in the end the goal is the same, good reliable ammo. 
 

Keep at it!

 

Not sure what's been confusing.  I've learned a lot.  Anyway, thanks for the encouragement.  

[XrayDoc88]

Thanks Sarge!  I've got it dialed in correctly now.  There's minimal resistance when I crimp and the case mouth measures about .377".  The c.o.l. also is not changing after the crimp.  I was basically squeezing the case way too hard with my first attempts at crimping.

 

I noticed something, that leads to another question.  My commercial self defense ammo has a much longer c.o.l. than the recipe I'm following for Hornady HAP bullets.  I assume this is probably to accommadate a greater powder charge, plus the bullet is longer at 147gr.  So I'm thinking that my HAP bullets are held back further from the throat and rifling than the self defense rounds.  Am I correct that it is not a  good idea to increase the c.o.l. of my target rounds to get the bullet closer to the rifling and possibly increase accuracy?  I assume that this would make a larger space for the powder charge and result in lower pressures and lower velocities.  My gun can obviously handle a longer c.o.l., but the longest c.o.l. isn't always desirable?

[4n2t0]

For the most part OAL in pistol ammo should address functionality. If your rounds work in the magazine and plunk in the barrel then you're all set. The length of pistol rounds will vary depending on the ogive of the bullet used. Never look to duplicate a manufactured round unless you're using all the same components.

Edited December 31, 2019 by 4n2t0

[olstyn]

As 4n2t0 said, factory loads and handloads are not comparable unless they're using the same bullets.  Your commercial SD ammo very likely has bullets of significantly different shape than HAPs.  Loaded round OAL differences between different bullet types are largely about where in the bullet's shape it reaches full bore diameter.  HAPs, along with the very similarly shaped XTPs and Montana Gold hollow points, are full bore diameter for a significant portion of their length, and then transition abruptly.  That results in the bullet engaging the rifling at a shorter OAL than something like a Berry's plated round nose, which has a very long, gradual taper.  I own a gun which will take Berry's round nose out to 1.15", and maybe even longer (I've never tried longer), but in that same gun, I have to load MG JHP and Horady XTP bullets to 1.075", and I even found one bullet profile that wouldn't pass the plunk test past 1.035".

[HesedTech]

My question is, what do you want to simulate or match between carry and practice rounds?
 

What I personally do is match the “feel” of the carry ammo and use coated bullets because they are a whole lot cheaper than the carry ones. 
 

My recommendation is to build a load and then compare it to the carry rounds until you get a match on how the gun “feels.”

[XrayDoc88]

2 hours ago, olstyn said:

As 4n2t0 said, factory loads and handloads are not comparable unless they're using the same bullets.  Your commercial SD ammo very likely has bullets of significantly different shape than HAPs.  Loaded round OAL differences between different bullet types are largely about where in the bullet's shape it reaches full bore diameter.  HAPs, along with the very similarly shaped XTPs and Montana Gold hollow points, are full bore diameter for a significant portion of their length, and then transition abruptly.  That results in the bullet engaging the rifling at a shorter OAL than something like a Berry's plated round nose, which has a very long, gradual taper.  I own a gun which will take Berry's round nose out to 1.15", and maybe even longer (I've never tried longer), but in that same gun, I have to load MG JHP and Horady XTP bullets to 1.075", and I even found one bullet profile that wouldn't pass the plunk test past 1.035".

Thanks olstyn and HesedTech.

 

Bullet shape differences!  That makes perfect sense to me.  I can see how a shorter c.o.l. with the right shaped bullet might actually engage the rifling at the same time as a longer c.o.l. with a long gradual taper bullet.  I've never heard that concept before. Thanks.

[XrayDoc88]

Exciting day at the range yesterday!  I fired my first 60 reloaded 9mm cartridges and every single one went boom!  It was a good learning experience.  My powder charge range is listed at 4.2-4.8 gr.  I reloaded 15 each at 4.2, 4.3, 4.4 and 4.5 gr.  The 4.2 batch caused malfunctions with almost every cartridge.  I had one empty cartridge stay in the chamber, several stove pipes and several double feeds.  It was  a depressing start, but I assumed the powder charge was just too low.  Then I shot the 4.3, 4.4 and 4.5 loads and every one cycled the gun perfectly.  The 4.5 loads felt close to my American Eagle commercial loads, but I think they were still a little less powerful.  I'm going to try some 4.6 and 4.7 gr loads next.  I don't have a chronograph however.  Any advice on how to settle on my steady load without a chronograph?  I haven't seen any signs of excessive pressure so far.

 

This is very fun!

[nhyrum]

Welcome to the reloading addiction! My small reloading room QUICKLY got filled up with gear. I've easily got twice as much, financially, in reloading gear, than I do in guns and scopes, but I started with precision long range reloading, so I needed a lot of specialty tools for measuring stuff.

There's no problem with reloading on a single stage for pistol. You'll spend a lot of time in your room, but you'll get a cadence and get things down. Honestly, before going Dillon, look at the... Dare I say it... Lee... Classic turret. With the case activated powder measures, and inline fabrication case kicker setup, I could load about 400 rounds an hour slow compared to the Dillon, but it always made great ammo, and if you buy used, you could probably get into one for 250 all said and done. I'd avoid the Dillon SBD, because it uses proprietary dies. Don't get me wrong though, I love my 650, but the Lee press is very versatile.

As for finding a load comparable to your carry load, I'm not sure how much difference you'll see at say 25 yards, but I'd look for a load that hits the same spot on the target

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[4n2t0]

58 minutes ago, XrayDoc88 said:

Exciting day at the range yesterday!  I fired my first 60 reloaded 9mm cartridges and every single one went boom!  It was a good learning experience.  My powder charge range is listed at 4.2-4.8 gr.  I reloaded 15 each at 4.2, 4.3, 4.4 and 4.5 gr.  The 4.2 batch caused malfunctions with almost every cartridge.  I had one empty cartridge stay in the chamber, several stove pipes and several double feeds.  It was  a depressing start, but I assumed the powder charge was just too low.  Then I shot the 4.3, 4.4 and 4.5 loads and every one cycled the gun perfectly.  The 4.5 loads felt close to my American Eagle commercial loads, but I think they were still a little less powerful.  I'm going to try some 4.6 and 4.7 gr loads next.  I don't have a chronograph however.  Any advice on how to settle on my steady load without a chronograph?  I haven't seen any signs of excessive pressure so far.

 

This is very fun!

 

1) Use at least 0.2gr increments when testing.

 

2) Are we still talking about a 125gr HAP over CFE Pistol? If so and you want them stout go right to book max at 4.8gr (maybe some at 4.6gr for comparison).

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by 4n2t0