Popple holes. What's your opinion.

[Aforum55]

Getting a new open blaster built. Looking at a V4, V6 or just 3 popple holes at the top. My current open guns don't have popple holes. What's the real benefit? Will be using this gun in USPSA and 3 gun. 

 

Looking for recommendations. 

[KellyB]

Ask your builder what they believe the benefit is. That can be very telling. Is it something they specialize in? Have you tried one of their guns with the holes?

 

I have one with V6 holes and love it. USPSA & SC, no 3 gun. The 2 sets of holes on the side are angled to help hold the muzzle down. The gases are pushed up & out The angle of the holes matter quite a bit. Can’t just drill holes & up the price of the gun.

I shot a friend’s gun with popple holes (different maker) & it blows the gases back in your face. Hated that experience. Made me hold my breath every time I pulled the trigger. Plus I thought it had more muzzle flip.

 

[traingq]

I have 2 popple holes on all 4 of my open guns, helps keep the muzzle down

[36873687]

Have 3 popples an two guns an none on 38 barrel I’ll take the popples 

[echotango]

I have 3x 3/16" holes on 3 open guns.  Wouldn't go back to no holes. 

[zzt]

Remember, the gun works as a system.  What happens when you add poppels depends on what type of comp you are using.  Correctly positioned poppels do two things.  They retard upward movement of the muzzle and rob gas from the comp.  Here are two examples.

 

One Open gun has two 3/16" poppels near the front of the barrel and a 4-chamber, 5-port comp.  With my original load of Silhouette, the gun ran pretty flat, but hit my hand harder.  Moving to Major pistol powder generated a lot more gas and the pistol shot flatter and softer.

 

A second Open gun originally had no poppels and wore a very efficient comp.  Almost no gas exited the front of the comp.  It shot soft, but not as flat as I wanted.  So I had two 3/16" poppels added in a V2 configuration.  It now shoots flatter, but hits my hand harder.  The poppels robbed the comp of gas and I can't fit enough extra MP powder to make it up.

 

They suggestion to shoot a sample of what you plan to have built is a good one.  Your hands grip and grip strength are also part of the equation.

 

I like flat shooting guns.  I'd rather have two 3/16" poppels than more smaller diameter ones.  You can go to far with poppels.  Add too many and you can't get enough powder in a 9mm case to make major.

Edited August 28, 2019 by zzt

[sauza45]

I have 4 1/8" popple holes. I think its all in what you are looking for. A fellow shooter has had both straight up holes and in a v pattern, he likes the

straight up holes better.

[gianmarko]

i have no direct experience with this solution but the guy i train with has two guns, one with and one without holes and he says he cant tell the difference. of course he needs different loads to reach PF.

 

personally i dont believe these ports will make a big difference, and the different feel might also have something to do with the material that needs to be removed from the slide to accomdate the holes, or the different loads required to reach PF, or a combination of factors. 

popple holes have less leverage and dont move much gas volume compared with a comp.  also, the comp definitely acts as muzzle brake while popple holes im not sure.

at the end of the day, if there is any difference at all, might be quite small. if the difference was large enough to be obvious, nobody would ask these questions. 

 

personally i am also a bit skeptical about different solutions tested free hand  by the guy who implemented them

 

friend of mine claims that a certain 124 grs fmj bullet we use around here is not precise. he tested them several times versus his favourite (expensive)  brand shooting free hand at 20yds and indeed these bullets showed worse groups.

however, when we did a test without him knowing which bullets he was shooting, the differences disappeared....

 

 

 

 

 

[zzt]

My first two Open guns were essentially the same except on had two 3/16" poppels.  With the same load, the poppeled gun ran 4PF lower than the other.

 

IOn my latest Open gun, 4.6gr Silhouette under a 124 ran fine for Steel Challenge.  I wanted the gun to shoot flatter for USPSA major, so I added two 3?16" poppels.  Now it takes 5.1gr to get the gun to run minor.  Any way you cut it, poppels rob gas.

[MikeBurgess]

3 hours ago, gianmarko said:

 

at the end of the day, if there is any difference at all, might be quite small. if the difference was large enough to be obvious, nobody would ask these questions. 

 

 

My sentiments exactly,

If one solution was enough better to matter' then all the makers would build guns the same way, but oddly they don't and shooters win matches with many different setups,  Currently heavy guns with mid or short barrels with holes and titanium comps seem to be popular, but that will change as people search for some elusive magic combination. 

 

[Hi-Power Jack]

There is clearly magic all around us :   Powder, Bullets, Comps, popple holes, etc etc.

 

BUT, you still have to learn how to shoot fast.     

 

I wonder how many A shooters could tell the difference, on the clock, between a mag

of super bullets/powder/comp/holes and a 2nd mag of just regular Major loads with

WAC, 124 gr bullets, a standard comp and NO holes.

 

I doubt this B shooter could tell the difference.

 

And, if I noticed the difference, I wonder if it would take a second off my time ?

[zzt]

1 hour ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

I wonder how many A shooters could tell the difference, on the clock, between a mag

of super bullets/powder/comp/holes and a 2nd mag of just regular Major loads with

WAC, 124 gr bullets, a standard comp and NO holes.

 

Night and day difference Jack.  I tried a lot of powders when i started Open.  I went with WAC, because that's what everyone used and I didn't know any better.  I eventually switched to Silhouette, which was essentially the same.  When I switched to Major Pistol powder the gun shot softer and flatter, and my average Hit Factor improved by a whole point.  Splits are faster.  Consider a 32 round stage.  0.2 second faster splits equals 3.2 seconds less time on the stage.  That's huge.

[Balakay]

1 hour ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

There is clearly magic all around us :   Powder, Bullets, Comps, popple holes, etc etc.

 

BUT, you still have to learn how to shoot fast.     

 

I wonder how many A shooters could tell the difference, on the clock, between a mag

of super bullets/powder/comp/holes and a 2nd mag of just regular Major loads with

WAC, 124 gr bullets, a standard comp and NO holes.

 

I doubt this B shooter could tell the difference.

 

And, if I noticed the difference, I wonder if it would take a second off my time ?

This one can.

 

You are welcome to try my gun/load if you are still shooting matches in Central Florida. WAC is wack for 38SC.. So many better choices

[Hi-Power Jack]

2 hours ago, Balakay said:

 

You are welcome to try my gun/load if you are still shooting matches in Central Florida.

 

Thanks, I just might take you up on that offer - see you in the Fall.    Jack

[MikeBurgess]

4 hours ago, zzt said:

 

Night and day difference Jack.  I tried a lot of powders when i started Open.  I went with WAC, because that's what everyone used and I didn't know any better.  I eventually switched to Silhouette, which was essentially the same.  When I switched to Major Pistol powder the gun shot softer and flatter, and my average Hit Factor improved by a whole point.  Splits are faster.  Consider a 32 round stage.  0.2 second faster splits equals 3.2 seconds less time on the stage.  That's huge.

I sure hope you meant to say .02 ans .32 seconds

 

Because if you can find .2 in a load, or comp, or holes, or whatever, you have huge problems.  It is hard to find .2 on splits between a limited gun and a open gun that's a .2 split vs a .4 split, so possibly on a 15 yard target, but even then depending on skill level either your aiming too hard with the irons or hoping too much with the dot. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

13 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

I sure hope you meant to say 0.02 and 0.64 seconds for 32 rounds, and NOT 0.2 seconds/shot on splits.

 

 

Yeah, I was thinking that seemed excessive also - I understand that saving 0.64 seconds/stage is 

very helpful - Not saying that better powders, lighter bullets better comps and popple holes will

NOT make for any improvement - just not sure that I cannot find more low hanging fruit that

will improve me from a Low B to a High B.

[zzt]

14 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

I sure hope you meant to say .02 ans .32 seconds

 

I did not.  0.02 seconds would not be noticeable, and I doubt the average timer would pick that up.  I do have problems.  A lifetime of wounds and injuries leaves me with a left hand that is barely functional for gun handling purposes and a right hand that on a good day can manage 70 lbs. of grip force.  So softening and flattening the gun has had a major impact.  On average, my splits are 0.1 second faster.  Close targets sound like the gun doubled.  Distant targets are 0.2 seconds faster.  As I mentioned earlier, my average HF is 1HF higher than before the change.  I don't run any faster, so the increase is mainly due to the softer, flatter shooting gun.

 

Added later:  I was just notified my new AMG shot timer, reportedly accurate to .01 second will arrive today.  That should give me move accurate numbers.

Edited August 30, 2019 by zzt

[Benji]

My new favorite thing to tell anyone in this sport is that it all depends on everything and this is especially true in open division. I run against a PT Honcho shooter who has no holes and I use a  2 hole Atlas Chaos and I guarantee that it's not the gun that makes one of us win and one of use lose. Having said that I went with Atlas because I think the holes are a benefit (and some customization stuff) and I didn't want to play the game of having a functioning gun and have some other smith touch it. To me the holes are like the caliber, you make a decision and then run with it. I agree 100% that the builder should be involved with this decision though. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Benji