6.5" 625 Enhanced Revolver

[Randy Lee]

Randy,

I'm not an engineer but consider my self to be " mechanically inclined".

The re-design, even slight, of the cylider stop seems to me that length should be added to it rather than depth.

Looking at my cyl notches the peening is more on the contact edge rather than in the bottom of it.

My 625 has some where near 40,000 rnds and 100's of thousands of dry fire cycles. ( i'm not kidding either !! )

It's got a lot of life left.

Only internal parts have been replaced mostly due to experimentation.

I cant see the initial "impact" going that deep. it would require a much heavier stop spring to drop it in the notch faster. I know .002" isn't much but you got to consider vertical travel time also.

A longer/shorter stop with less vert travel might be an option too !!

Just a thought !!!

Dan......( i'm still in this    )

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Dan,

I agree. There are a lot of mods which can be done to the existing system. If I were to design a new stop, it would be lighter in weight and have an angled cut on the dome so that vertical transit time is reduced as the leading side drops into the slot. Ruger and Colt both do this. The only problem is that the trigger pivot pin interferes with how much material you can add to the stop dome.

By lowering the entry cut on the cylinder by .002, the c-stop will have less vertical distance to traverse before it drops into the slot max depth.

At higher rotational speed, I suspect that the c-stop actually slams into the slot wall first, then the stop slides into the max depth. The deeper the entry cut leading up to the slot is made, an increased surface area of the stopping wall is available to halt cylinder travel. It's only a small amount, but every bit will help.

I don't know what # of returns Smith has that actually involve cyl. run -

by(they don't release that data), but I do know there are some. Changing the dimension will reduce the number.

I'd like to shoot my single stack, but all mine are in parts.

[Randy Lee]

I wonder if the Ruger folks are keeping tabs on us 

Shorten that trigger pull....

maybe redesign that cyinder latch .....

lighten up the frame a little ......

Who says S&W gets all the fun

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I hope they are. The Rugers also have many strong points and there are a few Rugers out amongst the population with some light trigger work.

[hearthco]

You are right about the revolver shooters- they pretty much are the best lot to hang around. IRandy

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I think Im kinda hurt Randy.

[Patrick Sweeney]

Re; Accuracy. Yes, we can greatly improve the accuracy of a 25-2 or 625 by feeding it H&G #68 semi wadcutters. But they reload like shjt, and no one uses them in a match. I'm talking 230 hardball.

If velocity is what we need, then maybe we should be looking at plated 200 grain roundnose bullets, where we need 825 fps minimum, vs. the 717 of 230's.

Me, I wonder if we can't improve things a bit with different bullet shapes. How about a rounded-tip coned bullet, with dead-straight cylindrical bearing surface? We'd gain concentricity in seating not availalbe with the typical mis-match between roundnose bullets and round seater stems.

[10mmdave]

Hey Randy ?? is it me or are 45 cyl notches different than the 610's ?

Oh, and I'm a eastcoast guy.

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Dear east coast guy,

My experience is that the unfluted cylinders like the 610, 686 super and some of the 1st gen. 627 really get beat up due to the added mass.

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I agree completely, a hunter style cylinder may look "snazzy" but all that extra

weight is a baaaad thing.

My 610 I was talking about is the older fluted version, I have an "Open" one for

pins and a stock one (6.5 brl) for USPSA.

I also have a 610 Classic with the unfluted cylinder and MIM trigger parts, I shoot

that one once in awhile since the little I have shot it the notches are pretty beat

up.

Oh!.....I voted yes, now to find the money, and when does the 10mm version

come out

[Carmoney]

Those H&G #68s shoot great in 625s, but if you're gonna try them in a 25-2, you better size them .453" or .454". We learned this a long, long time ago in a world before the Model of 1988 was born.

[Randy Lee]

I'll be talking with Irv. Stone jr. of Bar-Sto Precision and Bill Laughridge on the barrel twist rate and dimensions for 230 gr fmj at the Steel Challenge among other topics.

It would be nice to get Sierra or Hornady to help design a more accurate competition bullet profile for us. I would be curious as to whether the Federal expanding fmj bullet works thru the new barrel. I specified tighter tolerances on the broach cut barrel dimensions but haven't heard back. It may be there's nothing to talk about until Smith gets the purchase order.

10mmdave,

There doesn't seem to be any noticeable difference between c-stop slots on the newest 610 and 625 cylinders. But I do recall some differences between older versions.

[Carmoney]

The Rugers also have many strong points and there are a few Rugers out amongst the population with some light trigger work.

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Quite a few years back there was a nice young guy named Chris Peters who actually worked at the Ruger plant in New Hampshire and did gun work on the side through some basement FFL guy who called himself "Wind River Trading Post."

Chris could put a really nice DA trigger on a Ruger Security-Six or (then brand new) GP-100. Anybody know if he's still around??

My very first custom revolver was a "Couger" (Security-Six with a Python barrel), done by a California gunsmith named Doc Jones. Wonder if Doc's still around? Several years later I foolishly sold that gun to a friend of mine....just a couple months ago, I was finally given the chance to buy it back (which I instantly did).

I'll post a picture of it here sometime just for fun.

I would like to see what Ruger would be able to offer the competition shooter in a .45 ACP revolver if they set their mind to it.......

[10mmdave]

My very first custom revolver was a "Couger" (Security-Six with a Python barrel), done by a California gunsmith named Doc Jones.  Wonder if Doc's still around?  Several years later I foolishly sold that gun to a friend of mine....just a couple months ago, I was finally given the chance to buy it back (which I instantly did).

I'll post a picture of it here sometime just for fun.

I would like to see what Ruger would be able to offer the competition shooter in a .45 ACP revolver if they set their mind to it.......

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Mike, shot pin's in PA with a gent who had a 45 ACP wheel gun made out of a

44 mag Red hawk, handled pin loads quite well if I recall

The Redhawk gives you that old square butt feel of the old S&W's.

It's just that darn cyl latch that gets me, all these years with Smith's.

Guess the Colt DA folks say the same thing.

[10mmdave]

10mmdave,

There doesn't seem to be any noticeable difference between c-stop slots on the newest 610 and 625 cylinders. But I do recall some differences between older versions.

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To me they look longer and shallower, course the shallow part makes sense since

the chamber dia. is larger than a 10mm (ie less wall thickness so the notch can't

go as deep)

The Bauman 7 shot conversions used a notch the size of the L frame 686's,

seemed to work fine.

Since it sounds like you'll be displaying your wares at the SC we'll have to stop by

and check out what you have.

Hey there's a poll for ya .....

Do you go to major shoots for the actual shoot or for "Vendor Row"

[Randy Lee]

10mmdave,

There doesn't seem to be any noticeable difference between c-stop slots on the newest 610 and 625 cylinders. But I do recall some differences between older versions.

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To me they look longer and shallower, course the shallow part makes sense since

the chamber dia. is larger than a 10mm (ie less wall thickness so the notch can't

go as deep)

The Bauman 7 shot conversions used a notch the size of the L frame 686's,

seemed to work fine.

Since it sounds like you'll be displaying your wares at the SC we'll have to stop by

and check out what you have.

Hey there's a poll for ya .....

Do you go to major shoots for the actual shoot or for "Vendor Row"

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It's sorta funny, I will be shooting the Challenge part to do my best, and part to prove that these crazy theories I have on revolvers actually work in the real world.

Along with my Tofu sandwich, I'll be in the shooting box using my 627 .357 w/ Ti cylinder, noodle barrel 4 port hybrid, Hogue custom large butt grip, 38 short colt

Hearthco. 38sc moonclipped revolver.

My mantra- I may be slow, but I don't lose any brass.

[Patrick Sweeney]

I had sent a letter outlining my thoughts on a 6.5" 625 Enhanced wheelgun to Herb Belin, revolver guru and production manager at S&W. I just now got off the phone with him. We went over all the things I mentioned.

He said as soon as he can find the parts (they're hammered with other projects) he's going to slap Ti cylinders in a couple of 625s for me to play with. And send Jerry a pair too.

He thinks its all do-able. and is very interested in getting to the bottom of accuracy problems for the .45 ACP wheelguns.

[Randy Lee]

I had sent a letter outlining my thoughts on a 6.5" 625 Enhanced wheelgun to Herb Belin, revolver guru and production manager at S&W. I just now got off the phone with him. We went over all the things I mentioned.

He said as soon as he can find the parts (they're hammered with other projects) he's going to slap Ti cylinders in a couple of 625s for me to play with. And send Jerry a pair too.

He thinks its all do-able. and is very interested in getting to the bottom of accuracy problems for the .45 ACP wheelguns.

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Patrick,

That's great news!

I'll be curious about both yours and Jerry's experiences with the 625s.

[Dave Wilson]

I had sent a letter outlining my thoughts on a 6.5" 625 Enhanced wheelgun to Herb Belin, revolver guru and production manager at S&W. I just now got off the phone with him. We went over all the things I mentioned.

He said as soon as he can find the parts (they're hammered with other projects) he's going to slap Ti cylinders in a couple of 625s for me to play with. And send Jerry a pair too.

He thinks its all do-able. and is very interested in getting to the bottom of accuracy problems for the .45 ACP wheelguns.

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Patrick,

After dry firing the 625 that Randy is working up, I see now what the fuss is about. WEIGHT! I was in his shop and picked out a point on the wall to sight on and dry fired with the stock SS cylinder, then with the Ti. WOW! The lack of torque with the Ti is very noticable, sights are a lot easier to keep on target. That combined with the longer barrel SHOULD give ANY shooter a faster, more controlable second shot. We will all see how the harder surface of the Ti holds up to the punishment that multiple thousands of rounds can do in Randys 627 by the time SC gets here in a couple weeks.

If any of you are going to be there, be sure to stop by his booth and try the 625-E AND the 625-N (normal?). For me it wasn't so much the overall weight loss with the Ti cylinder but more the lack of torquing of the whole gun that sold it for me.

jus' my $.02,

Dave Wilson

[Patrick Sweeney]

Considering the warp-speed cyclic rate we want to be cranking off DA shots, less torque is good. Longer sight radius is good. Better guns is good. Now back to the bullet design project.

[R112mercer]

Pat;

As to the bullet design, I think the problem with ball rounds is how their weight is balanced in the bullet. As I said before, the JHP rounds fly fantastically, I used to use Montana's 230 JHP and was able to keep 6 rounds inside the A box in a group the size of my fist at 50 yards when I shot a Standards stage at a local match. I wouldn't want to find out how my CMJ rounds would fare... Some ideas would be hollow bases (kind of like the 185 gr. Berry's that Rudi uses, but in a 230 gr. variety) to better seal in the bore and give a little more case volume, plus this would move the weight of the bullet around some. Or some kind of false nose on the bullet, have the lead in a shape similar to a JHP or better yet a full or semi-wadcutter, but with the jacket in the round profile. All we care about the jacket is that it's round and smooth to drop into the cylinder, the shape of the lead would control how the bullet stabilizes. This could get expensive...

[Carmoney]

My shooting buddy Skip Chambers has a 625 that has become very badly peenicized due to his extremely fast cyclic rate. I watched him shoot the other day, and at one point the torque was so intense with that heavy steel cylinder it ripped the gun clear out of his hand. We had to wait 10-15 seconds for the gun to stop flipping around before we could pick it up off the ground.

[Randy Lee]

My shooting buddy Skip Chambers has a 625 that has become very badly peenicized due to his extremely fast cyclic rate.  I watched him shoot the other day, and at one point the torque was so intense with that heavy steel cylinder it ripped the gun clear out of his hand.  We had to wait 10-15 seconds for the gun to stop flipping around before we could pick it up off the ground.

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You have to be careful. if you grab onto the cylinder before it stops it'll flip you around the frame. I saw Wiley Coyote do this in a Road Runner cartoon.

[Nemo]

My shooting buddy Skip Chambers has a 625 that has become very badly peenicized due to his extremely fast cyclic rate.  I watched him shoot the other day, and at one point the torque was so intense with that heavy steel cylinder it ripped the gun clear out of his hand.  We had to wait 10-15 seconds for the gun to stop flipping around before we could pick it up off the ground.

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Replace in the first sentence 625 for the word "problem" and it souds like your friend Skip has a very bad sexual dilemma...

Peenicized?

[Airedale]

Peenicized?     

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Nemo,

I graduated from high school and went right into the Army so I don't have no real "higher learnin' ".

I think that's some of that midwest highfalutin' lawyer talk

Dave

[Middle Man]

My shooting buddy Skip Chambers has a 625 that has become very badly peenicized due to his extremely fast cyclic rate.  I watched him shoot the other day, and at one point the torque was so intense with that heavy steel cylinder it ripped the gun clear out of his hand.  We had to wait 10-15 seconds for the gun to stop flipping around before we could pick it up off the ground.

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Skip Chambers...

wait I can't stop...laughing...gasp...feeling light headed

[Randy Lee]

Well ladies and gentlemen,

I got to shoot the 625 Ti last night.

[Revorbaro]

And then?

It tells to us!

Which are the first feelings?

As it finds to you with barrell 6.5"?

With a Ti cylinder It changes to a lot the recoil?

The double action is better being the much light cylinder?

I hope of being understood, I have learned English from my dog

Best, Igor

[Randy Lee]

And then?

It tells to us!

Which are the first feelings?

As it finds to you with barrell 6.5"?

With a Ti cylinder It changes to a lot the recoil?

The double action is better being the much light cylinder?

I hope of being understood, I have learned English from my dog

Best, Igor

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You guys won't like it.

The test gun was the 625 5" Lisa Farrell shot at the WS.

Narrow serrated trigger

173 pf 230 gr. Fed 150 primers, Armscor bullets

Trigger pull weight 3lbs 11.4oz. with positive return

Recoil wasn't noticeably different, although I need to compare samples side by side with a stock 625 5"

I'll shoot it again later today(it was getting dark so I couldn't shoot more) and let you know my perception of how it handles.

My first impression: Skip Chambers- I have a slightly used 625 steel cylinder for sale...want to buy it?

[mikey357]

...I'm not "Skip Chambers", but...what "Dash Number" 625 does that "Slightly Used" cylinder fit???...also, for Middle Man..."War "Eagle", huh???...more like "Pissed-off Crow"....mikey357