Plated vs jacket vs coated bullets

[Ssanders224]

Honestly, arguing accuracy concerns when talking about JHP pistol bullets from proven, quality manufacturers is a bit silly. The popular brands are all more capable (accuracy wise) than 95% of pistols and shooters.  I'll say however, that PD has NEVER had an accuracy complaint regarding 9mm JHPs.  Good JHPs just go where they are supposed to. 

 

But since we are talking about JHPs... here's a little teaser pic of the new ESPs (available soon) from PD.  

[IHAVEGAS]

2 minutes ago, Ssanders224 said:

I'll say however, that PD has NEVER had an accuracy complaint regarding 9mm JHPs. 

 

Maybe. 

 

How would you know? 

[Ssanders224]

1 minute ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Maybe. 

 

How would you know? 

 

Well, I mean, I manage PD's quality and customer complaint logs... but maybe I missed something?  

(To clarify, PD has never had an accuracy issue REPORTED to them regarding 9mm JHPs) 

[IHAVEGAS]

43 minutes ago, Ssanders224 said:

Well, I mean, I manage PD's quality and customer complaint logs... but maybe I missed something?  

 

That would explain it.

For what it is worth, it is nice to know when you are reading information from a vendor, I think the vendors on this forum do a great job of contributing and providing honest feedback and insightful explanations, but it is still nice to know if the person posting has skin in the game.

[Ssanders224]

2 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

That would explain it.

For what it is worth, it is nice to know when you are reading information from a vendor, I think the vendors on this forum do a great job of contributing and providing honest feedback and insightful explanations, but it is still nice to know if the person posting has skin in the game.

 

Yep.  And I try not to post here as a "vendor".  I'm just a shooter.  

That being said, I try to provide helpful info regarding subjects that relate to my profession, or PD products when applicable. 

[njl]

 
Well, I mean, I manage PD's quality and customer complaint logs... but maybe I missed something? [emoji4] 

How long have you been there? I contacted PD years ago after finding a number of 124gr FMJ bullets with split jackets. Don’t think I ever heard back. IIRC, I didn’t load them, so I don’t know if accuracy would have been affected. I’ve since moved on to using primarily coated bullets.

[Gooldylocks]

Doesn't everyone know Steven works for PD? I thought so at least haha. 

 

Regardless of that, I agree that the accuracy conversation is quite silly. They are all way more accurate than needed for this game, and more accurate than most anyone can actually shoot. Would you see differences with a ransom rest and a securely clamped gun? Maybe, maybe not. But that shouldn't be the real basis for your purchasing decision. 

 

"Are they reliable in your gun? Are they consistent bullet to bullet? Do they have reasonable accuracy (basically, no fliers) with your barrel? Are they a price you can live with?"

 

Those are the real questions.

[Ssanders224]

2 minutes ago, njl said:

 

How long have you been there? I contacted PD years ago after finding a number of 124gr FMJ bullets with split jackets. Don’t think I ever heard back. IIRC, I didn’t load them, so I don’t know if accuracy would have been affected. I’ve since moved on to using primarily coated bullets.

 

 

Hate to hear you had an issue. I feel like I've already done enough to derail the thread, ha. 

Shoot me a PM. I would be interested in more detail on the "split jackets".  That would be an extremely rare thing to have happen. 

[Ssanders224]

1 minute ago, Gooldylocks said:

 

 

"Are they reliable in your gun? Are they consistent bullet to bullet? Do they have reasonable accuracy (basically, no fliers) with your barrel? Are they a price you can live with?"

 

Those are the real questions.

 

Yep. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

5 hours ago, Ssanders224 said:

 

But since we are talking about JHPs... here's a little teaser pic of the new ESPs (available soon) from PD.  

 

How many different 124 gr JHP's does PD have ?    And, what is the difference ?

[Sarge]

5 hours ago, Ssanders224 said:

 

Well, I mean, I manage PD's quality and customer complaint logs

Good to know. It will help me when it’s time for my next bullet order

[Ssanders224]

2 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

How many different 124 gr JHP's does PD have ?    And, what is the difference ?

 

Currently two. 

The standard 124 JHP, and the new "ESP". 

 

The ESP is strictly a sporting bullet, designed with USPSA shooters in mind.  No expansion grooves, larger/smoother radius around the nose to promote feeding, and a slight change to the HP profile.  

Oh, and slightly more attractive pricing  

The ESP's will be available soon. (there are already quite a few out in the wild)

[Wvaughn7]

2 minutes ago, Ssanders224 said:

 

Currently two. 

The standard 124 JHP, and the new "ESP". 

 

The ESP is strictly a sporting bullet, designed with USPSA shooters in mind.  No expansion grooves, larger/smoother radius around the nose to promote feeding, and a slight change to the HP profile.  

Oh, and slightly more attractive pricing  

The ESP's will be available soon. (there are already quite a few out in the wild)

 

That is wonderful news as I just purchased a new open gun and was almost ready for a case of your bullets. Even better if they are cheaper than the current prices, which are already excellent. How long until these are officially out there for purchase? Are we talking days or months? 

[Ssanders224]

5 minutes ago, Wvaughn7 said:

 

That is wonderful news as I just purchased a new open gun and was almost ready for a case of your bullets. Even better if they are cheaper than the current prices, which are already excellent. How long until these are officially out there for purchase? Are we talking days or months? 

 

Not months. 124s are ready to go.  Just finishing up things on the 115s before we list them. 

[Nevadazielmeister]

8 hours ago, Gooldylocks said:

Another thought, is if bullet price was directly proportional to quality, and the best Shooters all will shoot the highest quality bullet that they can, then the assumption would be no one in USPSA would shoot anything except for Hornady XTPs, Nosler sporting handgun, or zeros.

And yet... that's not the case.

 

Unless, of course, they are sponsored by them, right? Then they could shoot whatever the company provides for them, all in exchange for a good word or three. Right?

 

So how independent is that? Meanwhile, if the shooters are paying with their own money and it is doubtful that more than half of the shooters are sponsored by them, there must be something to the bullet of choice, correct? 

 

Look, I am not saying one bullet is better than the other, just that I cannot believe when someone says that this bullet shoots just as good as the other and for less. bulls#!t. Show me independent tests and I will consider. Otherwise, you are selling something. 

[Gooldylocks]

I know a lot of very good (top) shooters, and if any of them thought they were leaving points on the table because of their bullets, they would drop that sponsor and switch to something that gave them confidence in their equipment or change to a different model from that company if that was an option.

You don't have to believe it if you don't want to. It's your money and your scores, spend it however you would like. But the basis for your entire argument is "Montana Gold's cost more, therefore they must be better." That isn't a good basis for your position.

In my own experience, as well as many other people that have commented on this thread that is not the case. Even if you take myself and Steven out of it, since I think we are the only two here that have skin in the game, there are multiple other commenters that have the same experience.

[B_RAD]

All I can say from personal experience is that PD 124 gr JHP have been as accurate as I believe possible out of a couple of my guns. I said earlier that it might not be possible to prove one more accurate than another. In my mind most handgun bullets I've shot are accurate. Meaning, at 10 yds I can usually shoot 5 shot groups that are all touching are very very close.  I can do it off hand at will. At 25 I usually can do sub 2.5" at will. 

 

So, If get a load that can't do that I chalk it up to that load and not the bullet. I've shot several loads that seemed to not be super accurate with one powder but with the right powder it was. Yeah, some barrels might like .356 vs 355 or something like that but that doesn't mean one isore accurate. Just means one gun/barrel shoots one better. To say higher price must indicate better quality is kinda silly, IMO.

 

 

 

Now, another reason I like PD is Steven has been very generous with his knowledge. I've squaded with him and have asked him a few questions via PM here. The guy has been very cool and helped with a lot of information. Everything he's told me has been spot on. That's pretty cool. So, I'll buy from them.  

 

I'd take the Pepsi challenge any day against any other bullet but I can't see how they can be more accurate for what I'm needing.  Just as accurate, maybe, but just can't see them being more so.  

 

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by B_RAD

[Ssanders224]

41 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

 

Now, another reason I like PD is Steven has been very generous with his knowledge. I've squaded with him and have asked him a few questions via PM here. The guy has been very cool and helped with a lot of information. Everything he's told me has been spot on. That's pretty cool. So, I'll buy from them.  

 

 

 

Well, I sure do appreciate that! 

I’m just a shooter that enjoys the sport and shooting with folks, I just happen to manage a bullet company. When I can be of help, I try my best. 

 

As as long as I have anything to do with it, PDs customer service will be second to none. 

 

Anywho.. I feel like the tread needs to move back to the OPs topic

[reballz]

 
Well, I sure do appreciate that! 
I’m just a shooter that enjoys the sport and shooting with folks, I just happen to manage a bullet company. When I can be of help, I try my best. 
 
As as long as I have anything to do with it, PDs customer service will be second to none. 
 
Anywho.. I feel like the tread needs to move back to the OPs topic [emoji6]

I feel that because of the inconvenience of use on my post, PD should send me 1k bullets to try out.


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[IDescribe]

3 hours ago, Nevadazielmeister said:

So how independent is that? Meanwhile, if the shooters are paying with their own money and it is doubtful that more than half of the shooters are sponsored by them, there must be something to the bullet of choice, correct? 

 

Look, I am not saying one bullet is better than the other, just that I cannot believe when someone says that this bullet shoots just as good as the other and for less. bulls#!t. Show me independent tests and I will consider. Otherwise, you are selling something. 

Dude, you keep contradicting yourself. 

If you can't believe a bullet shoots just as good as a more expensive bullet, you ARE saying you believe one bullet is better than another.

You keep saying you'll believe something when you see independent testing, but your own beliefs aren't resting on anything of the kind.  

You asserted that rifle bullet performance was directly tied to price, then when someone offered a contrasting opinion/example, you said rifle bullets shouldn't be part of the conversation.  THEN you offered a rebuttal on the rifle bullets -- that was a double self-contradictory whammy.   

You're trying to use the Equipment Surveys as indicators of performance, but the trends on those surveys often conflict with your higher price being tied to performance assertion.

At some point, you ARE just arguing.   

A good rule of thumb --  when you have two items  of similar production cost and similar performance -- like MG and PD -- and one has a higher consumer price, the higher consumer price is usually tied to marketing (and it's usually a good business decision).        

I've bought plenty of MG and PD both. I'm not paying a price premium for no performance uptick.  I have done the testing with my own pistols.  Both have been great, but PD has been slightly better when comparing 124gr PD .355 JHP to MG .355 JHP in whatever pistol. AND PD also gives me a choice of 124gr RN sized .356 for pistols that like that sort of thing, which my Shadow does, and PD does it at both sizes for less money.  Zero also offers different sizing and does it for a tad less than MG, or about the same, or a tad more, depending on what quantities I want to buy in.  There's just no reason to pay the extra $$  for MG over other options.  

Edited October 11, 2018 by IDescribe

[B_RAD]

I did not know PD will do different sizes. Good to know!

[Ssanders224]

47 minutes ago, reballz said:

 

I feel that because of the inconvenience of use on my post, PD should send me 1k bullets to try out.


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Hey! I’ve tried to steer it back on track twice! 

 

But I like where your heads at  

[Ssanders224]

7 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

I did not know PD will do different sizes. Good to know!

 

PD does a 124gr .356” FMJ.

It’s just a “true” 38 Super bullet. 

[reballz]

 

Hey! I’ve tried to steer it back on track twice! 

 

But I like where your heads at [emoji6] 

 

It’s all good. Right off the bat I learned enough to know I want to stick with plated bullets. You guys feel free to have fun.

 

Ps do you need my address for those bullets? For free I’ll shoot anything. Lol

 

 

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[IDescribe]

38 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

I did not know PD will do different sizes. Good to know!

 

Sanders already answered, but yes, if you go to 38 Super instead of 9mm, there is a .356 124gr FMJ-RN, that shoots notably more accurately in my Shadow than the .355.  Zero also has .356 38 Super bullets with a wider variety of profiles and weights, including a 121gr JHP.  If I remember correctly, you're a CZ shooter, and I am pretty sure some CZ shooters have had some issues with the Zero .356 125gr JHP needing to be seated a bit too short, but that 121gr JHP is sweet.