Local Match - C Class Production

[DKorn]

Here’s my video from yesterday’s match. 

 

 

This match had a bunch of firsts for me: first outdoor match in Production, first stage win (Stage #1, 2nd to last stage in the video), and first B class classifier. 

 

What do you guys see that could be improved here? I have my first ever major match in a month, so I’m looking for anything that I can improve before then. I have my own ideas about what needs to be improved, but I’d like to hear from others first. 

 

[Hi-Power Jack]

Run faster, and don't stick your pistol thru the port - stand back just a little bit   

 

Nice shooting ....

[Sarge]

32 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

Run faster, and don't stick your pistol thru the port - stand back just a little bit   

 

Nice shooting ....

I agree. You are a young guy so get moving! Your shooting also seems very deliberate, but you shot much faster on stage one and the classifier. Good shooting but just need to turn things up a notch.

[MemphisMechanic]

Echoing what was said? Learn to run with a gun in your hand. Or even jog a bit. Young guys have the speed advantage and healthy knees. Use them!

 

Drill reloads on the move left / right until they’re automatic, and learn to RUN.

 

That could easily pull you 20% up in the standings right there.

 

Set two targets up 20 feet apart and video yourself moving between them. Then work on moving from A to B until that movement (don’t worry about the reload when learning how it feels to run with a gun) is as fast as youtube video of Max Leograndis or Nils Jonasson or Dave Sevigny. Guys who move with gusto.

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[DKorn]

Thanks guys, I was hoping that everyone’s suggestions would mirror what I picked up on- any time I was moving and doing something else at the same time, I was leisurely strolling from position to position. 

 

This was also the first time I’ve really worked shooting while moving into a match with any success. In the past, I think I moved too fast so I couldn’t shoot well and ended up overrunning targets and having to stop. This match, I focused on slowing down and getting lower while shooting and moving at the same time. I also made a mental change- instead of looking for opportunities to shoot on the move (and not finding many), I went into the match with the idea of only stopping when necessary. How’d I do on shooting on the move?

[MemphisMechanic]

The answer to that is largely found in how many points you dropped.

 

You were also still slow when running and NOT doing anything else. At no point did I see movement I’d call “running.” Which is good news: it makes a lot of time very easy to pick up when you work on that.

 

But until sprinting with a gun in your hand is normal due to repeated practice, you won’t  make it happen on match day. Practice time!  

[Hi-Power Jack]

1 hour ago, DKorn said:

 This match, I focused on slowing down 

 

Never a good idea in USPSA ....  Full speed ahead     

 

Shoot deliberately, but everything else is FAST.

[SCTaylor]

Shooting "on the move" is often misunderstood and overrated, especially in production.  You'll be much more efficient hauling ass between positions and shooting sooner.

 

This is easily proven in live fire but can be worked out in dryfire as well.  Setup 3 targets at a simulated 10 yards with shooting box "a" and shooting box "b". 

 

Drill 1 - Hauling Ass - Start in box "a", at the beep run to box "b", setup, and shoot the 3 targets.  Run that 3-5 times to get a baseline.

Drill 2 - Shooting while moving - Start in box "a" at the beep, draw & engage the 3 targets while moving towards box "b". Run 3-5 times to get a baseline.

 

You've got to be deadly honest in calling your shots while moving, dry or live. I'm willing to bet hauling ass is the better option for your now.

 

To define shooting "on the move" or "shooting while moving", I look see two distinctly different methodologies. 1 - walking/running and engaging targets. 2 - not stopping.  This can be a small as continuing a weight shift in a position.

 

Type 1 - 

 

 

Type 2 - 

 

 

[DKorn]

On 3/26/2018 at 3:58 PM, SCTaylor said:

Shooting "on the move" is often misunderstood and overrated, especially in production.  You'll be much more efficient hauling ass between positions and shooting sooner.

 

 

To define shooting "on the move" or "shooting while moving", I look see two distinctly different methodologies. 1 - walking/running and engaging targets. 2 - not stopping.  This can be a small as continuing a weight shift in a position.

 

My goal in shooting on the move was primarily to get a feel for it under match conditions. I went in with the mindset of “don’t stop moving unless I have to”. I’m also switching to Carry Optics in a month, so I’m trying to get used to shooting on the move more instead of run-stop-shoot-run. 

[SCTaylor]

@DKorn understood and makes sense.  But as a C class shooter, no offense intended, I'd put less focus on shooting on the move.

 

You speed is not the low hanging for now, but the points really need to come up. 86% of overall points shot, 71% alphas and the 6 deltas hurt! A goal that is good for me is 93% of points, 85% alphas and no Deltas/Mikes (same thing to me). 

 

Notice how much better your placement & HF are when you shoot clean and/or high percentage of Alphas?

 

Stage 1- 2nd slowest time of top 5 but all Alphas, won by 5%

Stage 5 - Solid B class speed but hemorrhaged points

 

Shooting Production or CO, it's minor PF scoring. The points have to be up there, you can focus on getting faster but there has to be an emphasis on accuracy.

 

Shooters Note - I'm B class (don't shoot many classifiers) but have really been studying the mechanics of the sport over the last year. Look at the top National guys, breakdown what they do and how they do it, focus on your division. Most of the Production and CO guys don't do the traditional "shooting on the move" much but it's great to watch KC, Chris Tilley, Max, etc., to pick up footwork & movement tips.

[Foxj66]

11 hours ago, DKorn said:

 

My goal in shooting on the move was primarily to get a feel for it under match conditions. I went in with the mindset of “don’t stop moving unless I have to”. I’m also switching to Carry Optics in a month, so I’m trying to get used to shooting on the move more instead of run-stop-shoot-run. 

 

Think about this statement above.

 

You really said I have been working on this so I forced using it everywhere it could be used in a match even when it hurt me. You don't show up to a match to try new things. You show up to a match and shoot in control at your current skill level.

 

Low hanging fruit:

Movement, You have to have a sense of urgency

Don't shoot slower, Shoot at the speed of your sights it will be whatever its suppose to be.

Dont force shooting on the move, As slow as you were moving while "shooting on the move" I highly doubt it saved you any time.

Pay attention to footwork at all times. Your feet looked like they had no idea what they were suppose to be doing.

 

My advice do a full speed walk through at the speed you need to be moving in the stage run.

[DKorn]

It’s tough for me to work on movement- I do most of my training in dry fire and don’t have a ton of space. I can maybe push a table back and get another 5-10 feet of distance from my targets, but my “shooting area” is probably only 10 feet wide. I can maybe put an array in the room on either end of a hallway, but I would prefer not to do that as that would put my couch within the 180 and I would very much prefer not to muzzle my fiancé. 

 

Suggestions?

 

I think the biggest thing is going to be visualizing the burst of speed and running during my stage plan. In fact, I’ve noticed that whatever I focus on in visualization, I do well, and whatever I don’t focus on I don’t do as well. This match, I feel like I visualized the shooting, reloads, and gun handling very well and neglected the movement a bit, which translated into slow movement. I’ve moved much better at other matches in the past, so this might just need a mental fix. 

[stick]

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 2:19 PM, DKorn said:

 

 

 This match, I focused on slowing down and getting lower while shooting 

slowing down is never the answer!  Never  You might need to learn to see faster!

[DKorn]

2 hours ago, stick said:

slowing down is never the answer!  Never  You might need to learn to see faster!

 

Since words and thoughts matter, I’m going to clarify my previous statement- partially so that others understand my mindset during the match, and partially so that it is clearer in my own head during my next match. 

 

What I meant was “when shooting and moving at the same time, I adjusted my movement so that I could see acceptable sight pictures at my current level of skill. This meant slowing my movement down while shooting and moving and also trying to bend my knees more and get lower.”

[Hi-Power Jack]

12 hours ago, DKorn said:

  I adjusted my movement so I could see acceptable sight pictures. This meant slowing my movement down while shooting 

 

How were the hits for those shots ?

[Jay63]

I shot this match also. Stage 5 there was one spot on the left where the first 5 targets could be shot from, then run up the side to get the down range targets. Coming back around the wall to the right side there again was one spot there you could shoot those first 5 targets then run down range to finish the last targets. Bad knees and foot issues makes me look for these advantages. It does save a lot of movement.

[DKorn]

12 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

How were the hits for those shots ?

 

Mostly ok, although there were a few on stage 4 that I didn’t see what I needed to (2 targets after my 2nd to last reload), so I dropped a few too many points. On stage 5 I dropped a bunch of points, but they were on the farther targets and not the ones I shot on the move- longer range accuracy (15+ yards) is something I’m still working to improve. 

 

12 hours ago, Jay63 said:

I shot this match also. Stage 5 there was one spot on the left where the first 5 targets could be shot from, then run up the side to get the down range targets. Coming back around the wall to the right side there again was one spot there you could shoot those first 5 targets then run down range to finish the last targets. Bad knees and foot issues makes me look for these advantages. It does save a lot of movement.

 

I thought about doing that, but I had already visualized it the way I shot it many times before I saw that option, so I elected not to change my plan. I also felt more comfortable shooting to 8 rounds instead of 10, although the targets were close enough that I could’ve easily chosen to shoot to 10 with no real problems. 

[tanks]

On 3/29/2018 at 3:30 AM, DKorn said:

It’s tough for me to work on movement- I do most of my training in dry fire and don’t have a ton of space. I can maybe push a table back and get another 5-10 feet of distance from my targets, but my “shooting area” is probably only 10 feet wide...

 

You don't need a gun to practice movement. If you feel you need something in your hand then get a plastic gun. Basically four things happen during any movement, start/push-off, actual movement, braking step to direct the momentum into the ground, and settling step (or cross-over). The gun comes into play on the last two where you switch your vision to the target during the breaking step while you start pointing the gun at the target and fire during or right after the settling step. The toughest parts are the start and end in regards to movement especially settling the momentum at the braking step. So, I think you can train all of the above (running and vision switch) without a firearm.

[Mcfoto]

14 minutes ago, tanks said:

 

You don't need a gun to practice movement. If you feel you need something in your hand then get a plastic gun. Basically four things happen during any movement, start/push-off, actual movement, braking step to direct the momentum into the ground, and settling step (or cross-over). The gun comes into play on the last two where you switch your vision to the target during the breaking step while you start pointing the gun at the target and fire during or right after the settling step. The toughest parts are the start and end in regards to movement especially settling the momentum at the braking step. So, I think you can train all of the above (running and vision switch) without a firearm.

 

+1. Following advice given to me by a coach, I practice sight transitions and movement on breaks and lunch with a water bottle. Fortunately, I have secluded warehouse space at work so I don't get funny looks...

[Sliv2]

In addition to the feedback given:

• Unloaded table start (first stage in video): stuff the mags in your pouches first. You can load up the gun a lot easier while running.
• Get your gun up before coming into position. You should be aiming at a target before you arrive. 
• You're dropping too many points. Especially in Production, you need to be racking up As. I think Tyler Turner said it best, "Points your competition to death." 

[DKorn]

16 minutes ago, Sliv2 said:

In addition to the feedback given:

• Unloaded table start (first stage in video): stuff the mags in your pouches first. You can load up the gun a lot easier while running.

 

Maybe it wasn’t clear from the video, but there was a target to engage from the spot where I grabbed my first mags, so I did that before I worried about stuffing the extra mag. I made the decision to only stuff 1 extra mag since there were barrels fairly convienient for most of the reloads, and I didn’t want to stand there and stuff mags for 10 seconds. Most people in Production or Single Stack ran the same plan I did, although some people chose not to stuff a mag on their belt at the beginning and had to take a couple steps back somewhere to grab a mag off a barrel.  Normally, if l were doing an unloaded start with the first shooting position several steps away from the mags, I would agree with you and do the load after stuffing pouches.