Unload And Show Bang

[Nate]

I went to Libby for the Montana Stock Gun Championships (July 17, 2005) and had an important experience. I was shooting my friend Scott's Para as my gun was away getting some work done. I had just finished shooting Stage 7, a run and gun kick the door and shoot as fast as you can stage, and was given the "unload and show clear" command. I looked down to see the gun was not quite in battery and showed Scott who was the RO on the stage. Wow, how lucky can you get, a failure to feed AFTER your done shooting. I dropped the mag, put my hand at the back of the slide and tried to eject the round and it was in pretty tight. I moved my hand to the front cocking serrations and hit the grip with my shooting hand and it did start to extract the round, unfortunately it pulled the round into the extended ejector and the round went off. Frank Cook was score keeper and ask me to "show him my hands", well my hands were fine BECAUSE they were away from the ejection port, if they had not been I would be short some fingers today. Scott took a pretty good piece to his chest (and ruined his 2004 Nats shirt) and I dug some brass out of my leg but that was the extent of the damage. It could have been much much worse. This brings up a few important points

1. Keep your hand away from the ejection port.

2. If you load your rounds long, make sure they completely clear the barrel and ejection port when ejecting a loaded round.

3. Buy good safety glasses!

4. Ask your gun smith about the length and shape of your ejector

5. Go easy when ejecting a stuck round.

Glad not to be part of the Darwin thread. Oh yea, I got DQ'ed for the first time. I can live with it.

[Sterling White]

Sorry to hear of your mis fortune but am glad to hear that no one was hurt.

[kevin c]

...pulled the round into the extended ejector and the round went off...

...Oh yea, I got DQ'ed for the first time. I can live with it...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought that this was a "detonation" and not a DQ, or am I remembering the rules wrong?

[Merlin Orr]

Wow.. An eye opener for me. When I clear a "stuck" round I usually grab the gun from over the top and hold the rear cocking serrations and smack the rear of the grip with my shooting hand. I do believe I will Not be using that method to clear my gun anymore.....

Thank you for the post.

[ima45dv8]

...pulled the round into the extended ejector and the round went off...

...Oh yea, I got DQ'ed for the first time. I can live with it...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought that this was a "detonation" and not a DQ, or am I remembering the rules wrong?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No Kevin, you're right. It isn't a DQ:

"10.4.3.1 Exception - a detonation, which occurs while unloading a handgun, is not considered a shot or discharge subject to a match disqualification, however, Rule 5.1.6 may apply." (Rule 5.1.6 deals with unsafe/unserviceable handguns getting removed from the match)

Nate, was your DQ for the detonation or did something else happen?

...Mark

[ErikW]

Good advice.

But you shouldn't have been disqualified...

10.4.3.1 Exception – a detonation, which occurs while unloading a

handgun, is not considered a shot or discharge subject to a

match disqualification, however, Rule 5.1.6 may apply.

5.1.6 Handguns must be serviceable and safe. Range Officers may

demand examination of a competitor’s handgun or related equip-ment,

at any time, to check they are functioning safely. If any

such item is declared unserviceable or unsafe by a Range Officer,

it must be withdrawn from the match until the item is repaired to

the satisfaction of the Range Master.

[Clay1]

I've read a couple of these over the past 6 months or so. Maybe I am all wet but all of them seem to have a few things in common:

40 cal

all extended ejectors

Is that too much of a generalization or do the rest of you find the same thing?

Rick

[Nate]

I wondered about the DQ but was a pretty wound up.

That is a danger with an extended ejector but I am not sure anything short of stock would be any more safe.

[ima45dv8]

I've read a couple of these over the past 6 months or so.  Maybe I am all wet but all of them seem to have a few things in common:

40 cal

all extended ejectors

Is that too much of a generalization or do the rest of you find the same thing?

Rick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In my own opinion (which is worth about what you paid for it ), the common factors I see are long-loaded ammo, extended extractors, and not having the front of the ejection port slightly relieved to ensure the nose of the cartridge clears consistently with the long rounds. YMMV. It s-e-e-m-s like there may be more .40s going off, but do a search here and you'll see that plenty of .45's have lit up, too.

Do a search on "flipping" and you'll get a ton of info (you'll also see how passionate people can get on both sides of that issue).

...Mark

[kevin c]

Wow.. An eye opener for me. When I clear a "stuck" round I usually grab the gun from over the top and hold the rear cocking serrations and smack the rear of the grip with my shooting hand.  I do believe I will Not be using that method to clear my gun anymore.....

Thank you for the post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was taught a technique to avoid having your hand/arm over the ejection port in this situation:

Weak hand grabs the rear slide serrations with the thumb and fingers pinching the slide "upside down": palm side facing the slide, knuckle side facing the beaver tail. This gives the strong hand just enough clearance to hit the gun with the web of the hand, right where the grip safety pivots. Both hands will be close together on either side of the rails, so the gun won't tend to twist in the weak hand. Point the gun muzzle down and the ejection port down range as you smack it.

It helps to have a very positive grip on the rear serrations. The muzzle down position helps. For me, not being very strong, it also helps that my rear serrations were milled out and replaced with skateboard tape - very secure hold, despite my milquetoast weak hand grip.

All the same, it might be best to test this w/ an empty gun at home to make sure you won't knock the gun clean out of your hand.

[Skywalker]

Nate,

I'm twice grateful: once for you not being hurt, the other for your eye opener reminder.

Now, as everybody else have pointed out, care to 'splain on the grounds of what rule you were DQ'ed?

ima45dv8 nailed it pretty well, no DQ as per the rules, if what you reported are the only events.

[Julien Boit]

It happened to me once, it was not during UASC command.

The primer went off on the extractor, the bullet get stuck on the barrel hood, the case blown up in the chamber and directed the blast right on my thumb.

I learned many things : Never have any part of your hand above the ejection port.

Flattened all my ejectors to avoid any edge on them. Never make what I call "Quentin Tarantino" unloading, read ejecting the case in the air and catching it.

Now, I gently unload my last round into RO's hand , if it ever blow .....

[Nate]

No that was the whole story. The bang after the command was the reasoning but I just didn't have the calm mind to think it through and look in the book. I drove for 3 hours to get there spent some money on the match fee and might very well have won. I do not feel cheated though, just glad to have everyone safe. There will be other matches.

[Clay1]

Great attitude Nate. Again, glad that it worked out for you. Even if I could have continued would have had to stop by the men's room and clean myself up after that before I could have continued. Probably would have messed myself and be shaking so badly that I wouldn't have been able to continue even if they let me.

[DJPoLo]

Now, I gently unload my last round into RO's hand , if it ever blow .....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You'll be unloading that round onto the ground if I'm your R.O.

I'm not getting my hand anywhere near a cometitor's gun during Unload & Show Clear.

Nate, glad to hear you Scott and Frank are were all OK. Woulda scared the crap outta me.

-Chet

[folsoml]

...pulled the round into the extended ejector and the round went off...

...Oh yea, I got DQ'ed for the first time. I can live with it...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought that this was a "detonation" and not a DQ, or am I remembering the rules wrong?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would have had to go home to change my underwear anyway.

[DougBarnes101]

I have had RO's catch the round that I am ejecting on UASC. I would prefer that they just let it hit the ground and we will pick it up later. Better safe than sorry. How do you ask the RO to keep his hands away? It is my understanding that it safer to catch a 45 round but still why take any chances?

[EricW]

I think the extended-ejector may be being unfairly maligned, but I think my new unload practice will be with the ejection port pointed more towards the ground now.

[XRe]

You know, I can wipe off a round that's hit the dirt.

I hate it when an RO puts his hand out to catch my ULASC round. I'd rather wipe that round off - or lose it entirely - than have him taking shrapnel just in case something really bad happens.

In fact, I clear the gun w/ my weak hand under the gun, ala TJ, just for this reason. I don't want any body parts near the ejection port, just in case.

I haven't had the "pleasure" of a detonation on ULASC, yet, but there's no reason not to take all possible safety precautions.....

[ima45dv8]

Again, this is just my own opinion (and I'm not trying to start an argument with anyone who sees this differently), but it seems less likely to occur when the gun is tilted to the right side.

I can't find it at the moment, but someone wrote an excellent description of how this can occur in one of the previous threads. The odds for a detonation seem to go up when the gun is tilted to the left because that places the ejector at the bottom, or 6 o'clock position. While in this position, if the nose of the cartridge hits the front of the ejection port and causes the back of the cartridge to fall off of the extractor, the primer is directly in front of the ejector. At that point, any forward movement can possibly drive the ejector into the primer, followed by an unexpected loud noise.

All that is to say this -- I've had people roll their gun to the right and slowly eject a cartridge ito my hand. Mostly it's a few close friends who have all discussed this at length. I'm OK with doing that. If the bullet falls off of the extractor, the base won't be near the ejector. I also catch rounds on the way to the ground because if they didn't blow up at the ejection port, I don't think they'll blow up in mid-air.

YMMVAPD,

...Mark

[Heath]

Has anyone ever heard of this happening in something that's not a 1911-style gun?

[kevin c]

It makes sense to me to roll to the right and retract the slide gently. That's where the ejection port is, that's the direction the gun is set up to eject the round in any case, and is letting gravity pull the round away from the ejector in case of a bobble inside the slide. It also directs the force of any detonation down and away from the faces of the shooter and RO, though their bodies may not be away from the shrapnel.

I'd think it tougher, though, to be gentle and to get the best positioning if you have a live round stuck in the chamber, either at ULASC, but especially if you have the same situation still under the clock. In the second situation, you have the need for some force to get the stuck round out coupled with time pressure. Yeesh...

[LPatterson]

Nate, sorry to hear about your mishap. I am glad to hear that you and Scott are OK. The DQ was wrong and probably a knee jerk reaction by the RO because it was his gun. At least I think you are talking about the same Scott that normally shoots with us. I have started to use the front grooves to retract the slide and tilt the gun to the right and let the round fall on the ground instead of rack and catch like I used to.

Unlimber the SS and come out the 31st. As the locals would say get back up on that horse and show him who's boss.

[Nate]

LeRoy, I am stumped about where to hold the gun. It was pointed slightly down and to the right; the RO was to my left and was hit in the chest and I was hit in the leg (way way too close to the important parts). It DQ was kind of a group decision as the RO and I were busy counting fingers. If I had known the rule better I would have known better. I have only myself to blame.

I am shooting the Inland Empire match in Idaho next weekend so I will miss the single stack for the first time. I does look like Big Fork will have its first match of the year this weekend.