Requesting 2011 recs

[SpeedRacer]

First off, I've been shooting since I was in the military in the early 90's but only really began shooting regularly a couple years ago.  I started shooting IDPA twice/month at my local club matches in June 2017 and I typically shoot 800+ rounds/month to practice.  My current gun is a Steyr L9-a1.  I like it but it has some limitations. So I've come to the point where I go Glock or STI/similar.  I've handled a couple STI's although I've never fired one.  But I don't want a Glock.

 

I have read reviews all over the place and spent the last few weeks reading through this forum.   I've decided to jump to .40 so I can shoot minor PF in IDPA but also major PF if I decide to shoot USPSA as well.  I've read enough reviews about STI and minor problems that I'm leery about them, especially when I hear many people need work done to make it reliable upon receiving it.  For that kind of price, I want reliability from day 1.  That led me to CK Arms, Brazos (STI) and Infinity (not waiting 12 months).  

 

I hope to actually shoot a 2011 in the next few weeks.  One issue may be my relatively small hands.   A Glock 34 is fine and my 1911 and single stack guns are perfect.  But my Steyr, FiveseveN and most DS Sigs and HK's require I rotate my right hand slightly counterclockwise to get enough trigger on the finger and prevent shooting off left.  This of course affects recoil control for shot #2.  So I either fire very fast and precise with my hand behind the backstop or I shoot accurately but slower.  Another reason to move on from the Steyr.

 

I figured I'd ask these questions here since I can't go fondle different 2011's and grips.  There seems to be a lot of custom options and I don't know where to start.

Questions:

1.  Are there some grips that are better suited to smaller hands?  I have Wilson Combat skinny grips on my 92A1 and it now fits my hand perfectly.  Do certain companies make different thickness grips?

2.  It seems for USPSA a 2011 is advantageous over a 1911 for the extra rounds and fewer reloads.  Is that correct?

3.  Is there a manufacturer currently that everyone seems to trust the most to make a smooth and reliable gun?  I'd spend $2500 to $4k for the right one.  CK Arms doesn't advertise one but they will make a bushing barrel IDPA legal 2011.  

 

Thanks a bunch.  

Steve

[StuckinMS]

To answer #2 correctly: that would be a personal preference.  Single stack (1911) is a different division  than limited (2011) in USPSA at least.  I have 0 IDPA knowledge.  I personally like both and shoot both depending on what I dedicate the year to.  I prefer the Sig Max 1911 ($1,200), and would call Atlas Gunworks for a 2011, which would be at the top of your price range.  I have upwards of 18,000 rounds in the Sig Max and have had 0 issues.  You obviously would want a different spring setup for minor  VS major. I personally run a STI Edge from Dawson Precision that was their competition ready gun and have around 16,000 and no hiccups as well, but i my fun tickets were in shorter supply than you have decided to budget.  I did my own trigger work. Either way, calling and talking to Adam at Atlas will give you lots of options.  There are some really nice 2011s on this forum for sale also.  Go to a USPSA match and ask to shoot some guns. Most people are excited to let someone drool on their toys.  Have fun searching!

[yigal]

u want gun that will work out of the box .try cz    tso  9mm  for minor loads

 u will like it.

[IsaacB]

1 hour ago, SpeedRacer said:

Questions:

1.  Are there some grips that are better suited to smaller hands?  I have Wilson Combat skinny grips on my 92A1 and it now fits my hand perfectly.  Do certain companies make different thickness grips?

2.  It seems for USPSA a 2011 is advantageous over a 1911 for the extra rounds and fewer reloads.  Is that correct?

3.  Is there a manufacturer currently that everyone seems to trust the most to make a smooth and reliable gun?  I'd spend $2500 to $4k for the right one.  CK Arms doesn't advertise one but they will make a bushing barrel IDPA legal 2011.  

 

Thanks a bunch.  

Steve

 

1. The Phoenix Trinity steel grip is contoured and feels great in small hands (also a $650ish upgrade)

2. If you want to shoot in Limited division, yes a 2011 would be better. Single stack only allows 1911s, so there would be a division in USPSA for either caliber.

3. Atlas Gunworks is at the top of you price range, but they are the biggest thing to happen to competition guns lately. They can make you a bushing 2011. Also come with the PT grip described above. Check out their YouTube videos: they are very helpful. Otherwise any good builder should be able to trick out an STI Eagle or fit a bushing barrel to a 2011.

 

Other option that lots of people who shoot IDPA and USPSA choose is the CZ SP01 Shadow. Great for small hands. Can shoot in production division (which is always minor in USPSA) or cock it and shoot it like a 2011 in Limited.

 

CZ Tac Sports is another single action only favorite option (or TS Orange if you can find one).

[Fo0]

#2. extremeshooters.com makes STI grips for small hands

[zzt]

Another custom gun to consider is the Dan Wesson Elite Series Mayhem.  It is at the top of your range.  Just ask him for it in a bushing barrel.  He bases the gun of the Caspian HiCap frame, which is much, much smaller that a 2011 grip, and it is steel.  I believe Les Baer is building DS guns on the same Caspian HiCap frames.  Use MBX mags.

 

I don't shoot IDPA, but if I did and wanted to shoot USPSA with the same gun, I'd buy a 1911 in 40sw.  You can get functional 10-round mags in 40.  For USPSA Major, you are limited to 8 rounds in Single Stack.  For Minor you can go to 10.  You use the same holster, in the same position, and the same mag pouches.  For USPSA you will need 5.  For IDPA you are only allowed 2.

[pjb45]

Go to the SV website.  They started the steel grip craze.  Sandy took his prototype to Nationals in Tulsa to show around. 

I drank the Kool Aid- I have 4 of them.

 

They have different sizes as I remember.

 

There was an Army guy who modified the plastic grips.  He was quite good at it.

[SpeedRacer]

Thanks for the replies so far!

 

One manufacturer mentioned to me that I'd need aluminum or polymer grips for a 2011 to keep it weight legal in IDPA.  Anyone shooting IDPA with steel grips?

 

I'm not a huge fan of CZ although the guy who typically wins the club matches, with times nearly half of mine, shoots the SP-01.  Maybe I'll fondle it.  

 

While money is not a big concern for me, I don't want to get stupid here.  Hence the $4k budget.  Besides, if I spend more than that my wife has already threatened to get her next purse directly from Louis Vuitton.  For those that haven't been to one of their stores, they don't list prices.  But many are over $4k.  So the gun would essentially cost me over $8k.  But I do want the best damn gun that $4k can buy.  

 

Atlas looks like all full dust covers.   Not IDPA legal.

[igolfat8]

I’ve got two Atlas Titans and they have been 100% trouble free from the get go. Slide feels like it’s on bearings and the trigger is the best that I’ve ever shot or felt, period! I’d certainly recommend a call to Adam at Atlas to see what he could do for you within your budget. You would NOT be disappointed.

 

BTW, I’m a huge Glock fanboy too and Bob Vogel does quite well with his, especially for being an unsponsored shooter. Don’t overlook Glock just because of its lower pricepoint because they are extremely reliable and you can win with one too without a trip to shop at LV.

[yigal]

almost  forgot. u leave in us . u can bye all of them with no problems.

[Furrly]

Are you looking for a one gun do all.. IDPA and USPSA??? 

[RJH]

18 hours ago, SpeedRacer said:

 

 

1.  Are there some grips that are better suited to smaller hands?  I have Wilson Combat skinny grips on my 92A1 and it now fits my hand perfectly.  Do certain companies make different thickness grips?

2.  It seems for USPSA a 2011 is advantageous over a 1911 for the extra rounds and fewer reloads.  Is that correct?

3.  Is there a manufacturer currently that everyone seems to trust the most to make a smooth and reliable gun?  I'd spend $2500 to $4k for the right one.  CK Arms doesn't advertise one but they will make a bushing barrel IDPA legal 2011.  

 

Thanks a bunch.  

Steve

 

1 You are just going to have to try a few to see, but to me, a plain STI grip doesn't seem any bigger than the beretta with small panels to me, so I would start there.

 

2 Yes and no, as has been stated, it depends on the division you shoot.  If you want to have the more competition,  limited has way more shooters than single stack. 

 

3  Because you need a bushing barrel, I would try to find an STI eagle and either buy it from brazos, if they happen to have one, or send it to him for tuning if it didn't run when you got it.  The only problem is that the eagles are discontinued, so you better look quick.

 

Just a couple thoughts, do with them what you want.  Unless you just don't want a plastic gun, there are other options besides a glock.  Springfield, Smith, Glock, and I am sure a few others make quality guns that will work well in several divisions.  Buy one in 40, load minor for production, idpa, carry ops, or strap a weight to it if you want and shoot major in limited and limited ten.  A lot of versatility for not much money.

 

Good luck in your search

[KrymSIX]

If grip size is a concern you may want to check out a video from Hayes Custom Gunworks on youtube where they compare a number of differenr grips. 

 

For IDPA you probably won't be able to get away with a steel grip due to the weight restrictions. 

 

To get a gun that will allow you to shoot IDPA and also USPSA Limited you probably want to go the 2011 route. It seems like you've budgeted to go that way as well. 

 

One thing you really may want to consider is an STI Eagle and send it to Brazos for their reliability work and a trigger job. They do still list the High Performance Eagle (they tune it for reliability and do a trigger job) on their website so you may be able to buy one new. You can also find them sometimes in the classifieds here. 

 

If you go that route you have a very capable gun thats ready to roll in IDPA. To use it in USPSA Limited you would just want to get 3 or 4 140mm magazines but everything else would be good to go.

[SpeedRacer]

7 hours ago, Furrly said:

Are you looking for a one gun do all.. IDPA and USPSA??? 

Yes. Seems that a properly built 2011 can do that. I'm fine changing springs and grips if necessary. 

 

Regarding the statement about other striker fired guns, I already have a Steyr, PPQ, M&P among others. We have a good gunsmith and when I've talked to him about ways to make my Steyr shoot perfectly flat, have a 2.5 lb pull and no take up like a well tuned 1911 his response is to get a well tuned 1911/2011. I initially found STI and thought it would be easy. The deeper I delve into brands/tuners/options the harder it is to decide. 

 

I figured there were a few brands that are considered the holy grail, like the Veyron to car enthusiasts and this was the best place to find them. 

[tanks]

On 1/25/2018 at 11:47 AM, yigal said:

u want gun that will work out of the box .try cz    tso  9mm  for minor loads

 u will like it.

 

Grip is way too big for small hands, I should know as cost me some $$$ to do grip reduction on my CZ TS .40.

 

I have an Infinity and an STI Edge. With my "Trump" hands they both fit well. Though, I have the SVI Signature grip on both.

 

In regards to the 2011 doing both IDPA and USPSA. Assuming you can make the weight for ESP you might want to check the rules if bull barrels are still disallowed in IDPA. Most competitive USPSA Limited 2011 guns have bull barrels.

[SpeedRacer]

What makes a bull barrel better than a bushing barrel? Is it just weight and if so, would it really make a difference for a non-pro? And no, they're not allowed 

[RJH]

It is mostly about weight, just like full length dust covers.  Either bull or bushing can be very accurate.  If they shoot much USPSA in your area you might want to shoot a few matches, you might like it better than IDPA and if so you may want to buy a gun more geared to it and use what you have now for IDPA.  Lots of options :-)

[StuckinMS]

It will be well worth talking to Adam at Atlas and listening go what he says.  You may very well end up with 2 guns if shooting both USPSA and IDPA are high priority.  Your gunsmith told you straight, no matter how much money and effort you put into a gun you just can't get that custom feel like you can in a 1911/2011.  

[SpeedRacer]

Well, I accidentally bought a gen 5 Glock 17 yesterday.  I shot better with that and 124 gr factory rounds than I do with my Steyr and competition 147 gr.   Now I'm debating on getting a 34 with optics for IDPA and I'm already shopping for Glock mods, something I never thought I'd do as I'm one of the Glock haters.

 

Still "need" a 2011 though, as long as it will fit my hand.  Clearly I need to get my hands on some and then it sounds like I'll be calling Adam.  Thank you all very much for the input.