HerdThinner Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) I'm reloading coated bullets for the first time (105, 135, and 147). I've noticed a small piece of filing from around the lip of the case after seating the bullets. To correct this I increased the bell. On the 105g it corrected the problem but when I went up to the 135 I had the issue again. I increased the bell more. It corrected the issue for the most part . Any ideas why I had to increase the bell twice. Was it possibility one had a grease ring and one didn't. A follow up question are coated bullets a tad more particular on overall bell then say plated or jackeded or their coating is just tougher and I dont notice my bell sucked. Any intel I would appreciate. Thanks. Edited August 23, 2017 by HerdThinner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicoR Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Redding Expander / Lyman M-Die... that should solve your problems. If you can't fit an additional die in your press, you could try with DAA's Mr Bulletfeeder powder funnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef15 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Seating and crimping simultaneously? Otherwise suspect the diameters are different or your brass spring back for some reason changed. "Grease ring" better known as lube groove will make no difference and is readily apparent if present. Plated may be a little more tolerant or a lot. Jacketed can destroy the brass without damage to the jacketing. Coated are typically, but not always .001-2 larger than plated/jacketed as well as more delicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeinctown Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Without knowing how much bell you had to start with it is really difficult to tell you if you need to bell more or if there is a problem. I believe my Dillon manual claims that you should have a bell that is .020 larger than the actual case size. That works well for me in .45 but I use less with my 9mm coated bullets. Also, are you getting the shaving all the way around, or just in one spot? If just in one spot, make sure the bullet is being seated straight without any old grease or lube in the seating die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerdThinner Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 Good catch on lube groove not grease ring, brain fart on my end. I am not seating snd crimping in the same stroke. They are separate stations. Ill check when when I get home the bell in compassion to the case. Very good point. It is 60% on one side. 40 % all the way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickT Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 I've had no shaving whatsoever loading with Acme 115/122/147gr bullets. I'm current using an expander in my swaging station and a MBF PTX in my Dillong powder measure. Seems to be a good combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 I would check your sizing die; Remove the primer punch part and run a bore snake through there to make sure there is no debris that may be damaging the case rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerdThinner Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 I'm still having the issue. My bell is .03 larger than the case. Checked the sizing die ? Should I purchase and add the expander die or the powder funnel. If I go the expander route can I add it after the powder drop. 1resize/deprime 2 powder bell (which I would alleviate) or powder funnel and skip step 3 3. Expander 4 seat 5 crimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicoR Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 I'm still having the issue. My bell is .03 larger than the case. Checked the sizing die [emoji106] Should I purchase and add the expander die or the powder funnel. If I go the expander route can I add it after the powder drop. 1resize/deprime 2 powder bell (which I would alleviate) or powder funnel and skip step 3 3. Expander 4 seat 5 crimp. That'd be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrench459 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Resize for a slip fit. The bell makes things easier to start the boolits. Then close the bell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicoR Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Expansion is more important than belling, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Sounds like the seating stem may be on the wrong side. I say that because if the bullets are shaving more on one side than the other, maybe they're seating crooked. I had this issue when I 1st started loading 147gr flat nose bullets. I used the HP side of the stem. That allowed the bullet tip to dance on the face seating stem. Because of the ogive of the bullet, using the round nose side of the seating stem was what I needed. Try that and see if helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 On 8/24/2017 at 9:52 PM, v1911 said: Sounds like the seating stem may be on the wrong side. I say that because if the bullets are shaving more on one side than the other, maybe they're seating crooked. I had this issue when I 1st started loading 147gr flat nose bullets. I used the HP side of the stem. That allowed the bullet tip to dance on the face seating stem. Because of the ogive of the bullet, using the round nose side of the seating stem was what I needed. Try that and see if helps. I, too, learned this lesson. I currently load every bullet with a Dillon seating die using the round nose side of the stem. Especially my flat-pointed projectiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushki25 Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 On 8/24/2017 at 8:13 PM, HerdThinner said: I'm still having the issue. My bell is .03 larger than the case. Checked the sizing die ? Should I purchase and add the expander die or the powder funnel. If I go the expander route can I add it after the powder drop. 1resize/deprime 2 powder bell (which I would alleviate) or powder funnel and skip step 3 3. Expander 4 seat 5 crimp. Sounds to me as though you have plenty of case bell. Assuming your "shavings" are only the coating I would not worry about it one bit if your barrel remains lead free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuckinMS Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I only expand enough to allow the bullet a place to sit without falling off, or when belled it still fits only slightly snug in my chamber. I use lee dies, but don't have any trouble with shaving coated bullets. I have loaded tons of bbi and blue bullets. Make sure you are seating straight and like mushki25 said if if doesn't lead your barrel, it may not be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeinctown Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Wait, is it shaving brass, or the coating? I believe we are all assuming the coating by the way it is worded. What dies are you using? On the 9mm Lee dies I have, the seating die actually takes the bell out and leaves almost nothing for the factory crimp die to do. The way you might be able to combat the problem if using a Lee die is to raise the die further up but lower the seating stem down. This way the die won't run so far down on the case, yet the bullet will still get seated properly. I know on my press, the seating die is threaded much higher while I have my crimp die almost touching the shellplate, like the sizing die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpruitt54 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I've never used coated bullets. Today, I ordered 1000 ACME 124gr RN coated bullets. What are the coatings made of and will the coating take mild crimping on the press? I am using Lee does on a Dillon 650. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuckinMS Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Most all coated bullets will tolerate mild crimping. I have not used acme but the blue bullets and bbi work fine. Go to acme web and they should provide you with coating info and maybe even some loading guidelines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerdThinner Posted August 29, 2017 Author Share Posted August 29, 2017 - I'm using Dillon dies. - The stem is the correct way. I switch it when I go from 105 to 115 and up. - the shavings are coating and some lead. It comes from the seating stage. From seating slowly and really watching my conclusion is the bell itself. To combat this I took the advice from above and talking to Redding to buy an expander die. Redding was very helpful. The guy who answered suggested the DAA power funnel as an option also. I'll know more Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Some pics of your processes step by step would help. That way we can see what your bell looks like, what the bullet looks like as it sit ontop on the case, after seating/shaving and your final product crimped. I also use Dillon dies. Don't have an issue shaving bullets and don't have a need for an expander. I've loaded both Acme and Bayou coated bullets with great success. But it did take some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerdThinner Posted August 29, 2017 Author Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) I'll get some pics of each stage. I know my bell went from .002 to .003. Not that that gives a visual. When you say take some time..........in what regards. What issues did you run into. Edited August 29, 2017 by HerdThinner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustybayonet Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 What press are you using? I cast and coat my own bullets, powder coat is thicker than hightec. Your bell should be big enough to sit the bullet in and keep it stable, but not to far or your crimp die will show brass dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 22 hours ago, HerdThinner said: I'll get some pics of each stage. I know my bell went from .002 to .003. Not that that gives a visual. When you say take some time..........in what regards. What issues did you run into. I had a large rate of bullets, like 10%, that failed case gauge. So there were a few things I had to work through. YMMV By posting pics on another forum I was able to get assistance in trouble shooting my issues. I found out that I was over-flaring the case mouth, which over stressed the brass. I was using the wrong side of the seating stem, which caused my bullets to seat crooked. It wasn't even visible at first glance. I had to roll them on a flat surface to see that the bullet was seated crooked. It took me marking my bullets to see where there were rubbing. I was using the HP side of the seating stem and swapping it to RN helped with that. I was over crimping, so I had to back off of that. Believe it's at a .378. Because 147gr seat deeper than others and brass vary on wall thickness, I was getting some rounds that still wouldn't pass case gauge. Even loading out to 1.150, I was getting too much buldge. So I picked up a Lee FCD. Since then, I'm at about a 99% success rate in case gauging. All in all, I spent about 2 weeks of troubleshooting to get to where I needed. That was my journey, YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) The errors @v1911 listed are ones that pretty much every new reloader goes through. There's a sweet spot on the belling amount. Crimping is an "as little as I have to" affair. Gotta get those bullets seated squarely. Use the round nose end of your Dillon die, or better yet switch to Redding's micrometer die. Load ammo as long as your gun enjoys being fed. Edited August 30, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerdThinner Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 Well I just got home from work and a midway package with some Redding expander dies where at my door. I went to the reloading room and put them in the Dillon. I backed off the powder die to create zero bell. Placed the expander die in and with some adjustments expanded the case just enough to hold the bullet. I ran 5 through and checked to see if they would cycle and there were zero issues. Zero shavings. Ran 30 more with the same results. I just want to thank everyone for their input , help and patience. Now off to the range in the am to test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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