Garrett Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 I have an open gun that was built on a Para frame probably 15 years ago. The gun still does very well, but I think it's finally time to replace the ancient scope. It's a Pro-point 2 that has been off to the Dot Doctor at some time in its life. The scope is mounted on a one-sided dovetail milled into the scope body that holds the scope 90 degrees from the way it is supposed to sit (top of scope is facing the left side). I understand it, back in the day, this was really the only scope available, and this was one of the few mounting options. I believe the scope mount is an old Dawson design. The dot adjustments are cranked over as far as possible, and the gun still does not shoot to point of aim. It's okay at 15 or 20 yards, but to hit the upper A-zone at 35 yards, I have to aim for the upper right side of the C-zone. Not good. I'm going to shoot Area 3 with it, and then get rid of the scope. I don't know what kind of mount I want to use, though. I like the single-sided mount, and the gun runs great right now. I don't know if going to a 2-sided mount like the serendipity would cause problems or not. My mount has 6 screws, I believe to be 6-30 or 6-32, but not sure. Anyone know if the old Dawson mount used a standard hole pattern that is still used? Or will I need to have my frame welded up and re-drilled? The screws tend to come loose, even if I use red locktite on them. Any suggestions there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 There are a lot of "beer can" sighted Open guns in Gunsamerica, Paras, S_I's and Caspians. Some look like a real steal if they ain't worn out. Yeah, get a blank mount for a C-more and have a GS fit it up to you hole pattern and you should be good to go. Hell, rebarrel in 9mm HE and you'll have a completely modern gun. And GET SOME GRIP FILLERS ON THAT THING!!!! (See PaulW I didn't even mention a DOCTOR). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Yea but I was watching!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 DOH!!!! Nice. Omnipresence. I hope to attain that with my GM card as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 That's the "Awesome Dawson" mount and a PDP3 scope [with the flat battery]. Same thing my Caspian HiCap had when I bought it 2nd-hand. I bought a one-sided C-More mount from Allchin - call them and tell them you have the old Dawson 6-hole pattern and he can make you one or may even have one in stock. Try here: Allchin for sale My buddy also had the problem with running out of adjustment - he's got 2 Dawson ProPoints including my old one. Unfortunately there's no way to shim the tube up or sideways like you could do with the clamping-tube mounts from way back when. I told him try Beven Grams - he makes this mount, the blank one is $135 & can be drilled for the Dawson pattern: A C-More w/Allchin will make the gun lighter, which is good for a Para. A D - o - c - t - e - r sight [shhhhh] would be lighter still but I think there's too much metal out of the back of your slide already. You might call Beven on the phone [he's not on the computer much] and tell him where to log on and look at your gun's photo. 949-548-3745 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Damnit Eric, you're gonna get me slapped. Anybody else wanna beg for GRIP FILLERS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Damnit Eric, you're gonna get me slapped. Anybody else wanna beg for GRIP FILLERS!!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I dont know how u shoot that w/o fillers. I had a para i tried shooting w/o the grips, the trigger bow hitting my hand, it drove me kinda bonkers. As far as the mount. I would swich to a C-More on a Alchin mount. It shouldnt be a problem getting one drilled for the hole pattern you have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuildSF4 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 I have a Doctor on the new slide I am having fit (Beven Mounted... it looks awsome, and the fit is super) Your slide looks like you have enough metal left to fit one. I would contact Beven to make sure. PS- Grip fillers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted June 29, 2005 Author Share Posted June 29, 2005 And GET SOME GRIP FILLERS ON THAT THING!!!! PS- Grip fillers!!! Okay, okay! I guess I never really noticed it. Hey, small hands are good for something. I did a search and found that Guncraft makes the fillers, but I was unable to find any pictures. Anyone want to point me in the right direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 CPMI also make a blank mount for the Aimpoint Comp if you want to stick with the tube scope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Be sure your bullets aren't hitting the comp baffles - that would be a quick fix if it's happening. Forgot to say that if you buy a blank mount & have a gunsmith drill the holes - you can get VERY close to dead on if you just bore-sight the gun. Remove the firing pin stop & FP, [gently] close the slide, and look thru the FP hole at a target about 12-15 yards away. Sandbags or a 'pistol perch' help. Center up the scope adjustments, put it in the mount, and stick it up next to the frame. Mark around the dust cover with a Sharpie to show the up/down angle you'll need. If the side/side is off, you can machine off a little diagonal from the mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Another option might be to call Dawson and get one of his single sided mounts! I'm sure he can match the pattern! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 I stated this elsewhere but.. I prefer double sided mounts, the single sided flex too much and cause too much dot movement. I see much better sight track with the two legged models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 I shot Area 3 with the old gun/scope combo. For the most part it was okay, but I had to hold off the targets on a few of the long shots. For the mini-poppers on Stage 8, I had to aim at about 4 o'clock at the circle, and about 3 inches off the plate. This would result in hits high on the "neck" of the popper. When I got home, I pulled the scope mount off of the gun. While at the match, I had bought a C-more and a mount from Brazos. I had to get an un-drilled mount as my gun has a 6-hole pattern, and his stuff is all 5-holes. No big deal. But I was looking at the gun, and noticed that I had a crack coming out of the rear-most hole. Not cool. I was talking to the gunsmith about today having it welded up, and he pointed out that I had a hairline crack starting on the other side of the dust cover in the same place. Not good. Had it just been the one, it might have been worth trying, but with it cracking on both sides, I don't know if it would ever be right. The hard chrome is another problem with welding. The extra chrome content makes welding a trick. But this would explain why my dot had gotten so far off in the past 6 or 8 months. With the weight removed from the dust cover though, I don't see there being a problem. After all, the dust cover is really just there to keep from getting crud in the gun or on the recoil spring. With the scope & mount removed, it should be a pretty low-stress area. So I suppose my options are this: 1) I could try to find someone else to weld up the cracks. 2) I could get a new frame and fit the upper to it. I could then turn the old frame into a backup Limited gun. 3) I could leave the frame as is, and mount a Doctor/J-point on the slide. I think I'm leaning toward this option. But I'm likely not going to do anything for a little while. It looks like I'm back to shooting Limited for the remainder of the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Guessing from where the cracks are, it may be that you were running to light a recoil spring & the slide was hitting the frame to hard. Just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Garrett, that sucks, but call George Smith at EGW and get his opinion on your frame. You can take whatever he tells you to the bank as far as welding on frames(he has done several of mine....) Good luck, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Garrett, When I decided to build an open gun on a Para frame I was told by a few people (Will O'Hara (gunsmith), Beven Grams (magmaster) and others) that the Para dust cover is thinner than most and has a risk of cracking at the holes that are used for a C-More mount. What you have confirms that. I went with a slide mount Docter by Beven. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjanglin Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 It can be welded I do it often and then i have them cryo treated. If you use stainless filler welding with chrome close it isnt that much of a big deal. I can also come up with a gun smith kit deep inmy safe. Jim Anglin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjanglin Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Oh ya Caspian makes a two sided mount for the c-more railway that works real nice on para's! Jim Anglin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Simpson Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Pic of the grip fillers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 look at pics of steve andersons blaster. under his single sided mount there appears to be a thicker pad welded to the frame. if the bill gets above 300 dollars, you would be better off retiring that frame.. the rest of the gun looks to be pretty sound...could switch to STI frame.. just a frame and a new thumb safety...refitting the rest of the gun to the new frame is probably still gonna be cheaper than stripping chrome, welding the cracks, filling the old welded holes and then refinishing. i would go the new frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 yeah, at 15 years of service it's probably eligible for "early" retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heath Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 If it were retired, I'd be inclined to purchase it just for the challenge of fixing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 just a frame and a new thumb safety...refitting the rest of the gun to the new frame is probably still gonna be cheaper than stripping chrome, welding the cracks, filling the old welded holes and then refinishing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, I've been toying with that idea. I checked with Beven about mounting a Docter on my slide. He said I still have enough meat on the rear of the slide for him to work with. To get one of his tweaked Docters with installation is $395. While re-welding the frame may get expensive, I'm tempted to just mount the Docter, and watch to see if the crack gets any worse. I would no longer have anything hanging off of the dustcover, and it's not critical to the functioning or accuracy of the gun. OTOH, a new STI frame is around $350, and I already have a scope and mount. But then I have to figure in the cost of fitting the slide to the frame, too. I'd also have to buy all new mags, as my Para mags would be no good in an STI. Something to consider. A new frame may be the best way to go in the long run, but just going with a Docter and leaving the frame as is may be an okay solution too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 If it were retired, I'd be inclined to purchase it just for the challenge of fixing it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'll keep you in mind, but it might be a while before I decide to give up on the frame altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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